On the Scottish news tonight they ran a feature on why the country grinds to a halt with some snow.
As part of this they showed footage of the "old days" with bad weather and this showed:
a postman pulling a sledge full of mail over a frozen loch lomond
a full street of residents all out shovelling snow off pavements and roads
a steam train blasting its way through a snow pile up
Now OK we have got a lot more traffic , we have H&S and we have lots of wealthy lawyers but how many of this week's weather issues could have been avoided?
- everyone clears the pavement in front of their house, maybe the road as well. If neighbour elderly or infirm, do theirs as well
- rather than ignoring the "don't travel unless necessary" message, pay attention to it
- rather than blaming councils and everyone else about lack of gritting, what can you do to help? Start off with not being on the road to start with!
- so after having the weather warning, the don't travel unless necessary, why do people still go out without blankets, shovel etc ?
I just feel that we have become so entrenched in a society where we blame everyone else, we look to get money to make up for that blame and we are much happier complaining rather than doing something about it!
Rant over!!
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>>a steam train blasting its way through a snow pile up>>
Still applies today!
tinyurl.com/yl5ghkq
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I agree with the OP to a certain extent but for essential road users this year has already seen the roads in an appalling state. In all my time as a lorry driver I have never had to face such a lack of gritters about.
I feel so sorry for the newly qualified artic driver facing 2009 as his first experience of something that watzes and bends in the middle, in a way he has to learn how to handle 'on the hoof'
The yards we deliver into haven't been cleared and traction is just impossible.
And still the supermarket NDC's are complaining that the lorries can't get the food to them.
Who's fault is that?
Should we really have to put up with roads in this state. There may well be a shortage of funds for grit and salt, but the councils could have been gritting since October when in effect they have stockpiled 10 weeks of grit that hasn'tt been used.
Edited by pda on 24/12/2009 at 05:38
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I gave up on the post above, The cursor froze 3 times and I had to post and then edit to do that much and each time the 'report website button' was frozen too.
Mods there is a problem, there was the same problem yesterday but again when I posted the problem on the report button it froze and wouldn't report it.
I give up!
Pat
Edited by pda on 24/12/2009 at 05:41
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>>a steam train blasting its way through a snow pile up>> Still applies today! tinyurl.com/yl5ghkq
As a young lad I remeber my steam train driving father pulling double and tripple shifts to run "ghost trains". These were non scheduled trains, that ran through the night on most routes to keep the line open and snow free.
The main thought process was, that if the trains were not running, the staff would not get to work.
Edited by Altea Ego on 24/12/2009 at 11:41
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Even in the severe winter of 1947 no schools closed like they do today and all the pupils got to school ~ I was in primary school at the time. Our school had no central heating, just coal fires in the classrooms. And the school milk used to freeze regularly and the bottle top used to rise up about an inch because of the expansion of the milk!
Edited by L'escargot on 24/12/2009 at 07:20
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It's a brilliant example to bring children up to, isn't it?
At the first hurdle in life I can give up and stay in bed until it goes away.
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We live on the only hill in the village. Years ago, we had a salt bin at the top of the street, and we would take it in turns to spread the salt so that we could actually get out of the street. Then the council withdrew it. Because we're not on a bus route, we usually wait about 3 days before we get salted by a truck
So I go to the council yard, armed with a hand shovel and a pail, to see if they'll give me some salt. I advise them that we live on a very steep hill, and two residents are the local emergency pharmacist, the other the local vet.
"Sorry" they said - can't let you have it due to Health & Safety. Apparently, I need special training to enter their yard, special training to handle the salt, and special training to spread it.
So I went back to the neighbours, explained the problem. Pharmacist phoned up local councillor, said "sorry, I can't dispense over Xmas as your staff won't give us any salt". Lorry came round within 30 mionutes and not just ploughed the street but salted it too.
Adults happy, kids not - we'd ruined their sledging slope. But we needed to get the cars out to go to Asda (12 miles away! to collect the turkey........
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No issues her. But then we always have winter snow in Staffs Moorlands...
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- everyone clears the pavement in front of their house maybe the road as well.
Pavements in town here are not cleared at all. This is why, from the local paper:
"Barry Robinson, vice-chairman of the Cambridge retailers' body CRACA, said there might be health and safety difficulties if traders cleared a section of pavement and then someone fell over walking off it and on to an uncleared section."
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Thanks pda
I have had the same problem myself this last couple of days with a frozen cursor.
But was blaming the weather!
A wee discussion this morning about the difficulties the milk tanker were having collecting milk.
Due to "efficiency" they are now virtually all artics, and therefore useless in the snow, unlike the ridgids.
What shocked me was the assertion that the farmers could not be bothered to clear their lanes, to allow the tanker access. Unfortunately I suppose sine most of them have a "jeep" they are not inconvienced.
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My recollection is that there was a court case where it was decided that if the snow was badly cleared, a claim for damages was accepted but if not cleared it is an act of god and no damages are payable. Not sure if this is just a story or whether there was a real case.
BIG
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just one question, from a distant memory didn't their used to be grit bins dotted about that could be used ?
There seems to be none in our town any more.
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just one question from a distant memory didn't their used to be grit bins dotted about that could be used ? There seems to be none in our town any more.
I've seen those around my area, but they always seem to be burst open with grit all over the place......in the middle of summer.
Never actually seen them put to the use they were intended.
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Was not really much better then,
Three children taken to village school by father because school bus did not run (8-10" of snow, 4 mile drive)
School on seeing the 3 arrive immediately call parents and ask for the children to be collected as soon as possible.
The year - 1967, and I was one of the children.
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just one question from a distant memory didn't their used to be grit bins dotted about that could be used ? There seems to be none in our town any more.
If there was, the bins would probably just be vandalised and the grit would probably just be strewn about willy-nilly by yobs even when there wasn't any snow/ice ~ the yobs who are someone's children, the yobs whose parents should have taught to be better behaved. Blame it on the yobs, not the local authorities.
Edited by L'escargot on 24/12/2009 at 09:28
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Grit Bins -
Lived here for 10 years plus now - the quarter of a mile to the main road was disabling - last summer two grit bins appeared within 20 meters of each other - both ideally placed for an incline and a nasty bend - allied to this are the road works being undertaken to reduce the flooding that happens every autumn (kids having to walk through sewer overflows to get to the bus) - yesterday a Council pick up with a two stroke motor strapped to the back spreading salt - by chance all this has happened since a local councillor moved in further up the lane - I could be a cynic I suppose.
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Not much has changed since the 1960's. I remember school being closed and stopping home. Difference was mum's didnt work so there was less uproar. Nowadays parents both work and expect schools to bring up their kids.
Still plenty of grit bins about and council do a fair job of gritting the roads. You have to be realistic, we dont often get severe weather so it would be wasteful to invest in an army of gritters for a few bad days every year or two. Some other countries cope better because they have consistantly cold weather for much of the winter. ITs a bit like do I invest in winter tyres for a few bad days each year?
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ITs a bit like do I invest in winter tyres fora few bad days each year?
Thats a fair point WT...how many of those wingeing about lack of gritters invested in helping themselves by being prepared, we deserve the nanny state.
Slight aside but emphasises the point, my mobile tyre chap was round yesterday to fit and balance the new summer tyres for the pick up, now safely locked away in the dark till needed.
He told me they've been rushed off their feet, i asked if that was people buying winter tyres, no its that people are running round on barely legal slicks and can't get any grip and are replacing their normal tyres far too late.
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Where i live lots of homes are rented out and the tennants just don't seem to want to mingle with the rest of us so it's me and 2x others clearing the snow buying our own grit to put down on our private small road which everybody uses it stinks they just can't be bothered.
Im told this is the modern times nobody mucks in anymore we do the old folks steps & paths not for money just don't want to see them slip. got paid in mince pies and a sherry was well worth it.!
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on my drive/ parking space we have a council wheely bin full of salt ..its been there ever since we moved there ... which is nice
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The end of our close has quite a slope down to the main road and early this morning, someone inched down it but was unable to stop at the bottom, so her husband was out there this morning clearing the whole lot himself and a fine job he did too.
H&S can get lost, he did a better job than the council did on the main road.
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Was amused today, having set off at 6am to here Sally (or was it Bobby or.....?) Traffic on Radio 2 advising everybody to "delay their travel start until later to give the roads time to thaw" . At about 2 pm she announced that "traffic was building up and there was lots of congestion because everybody seemed to have delayed their travel start" (or words to that effect.
On the "when I were a lad we coped better then" theme, I remember the winter of '62/'63. Our school was closed from Christmas to Easter because no fuel could get through for the heating (oil?) and the town was virtually cut off for a couple of months. Boy did we do a lot of toboganning - much better than school! Brilliant for an early teenager! Wonder what we ate with the town cut off? But Mr Jackson the grocer still managed to get round in his Vauxhall Victor estate with the groceries in a cardboard box on a Thursday. Never wondered how he got his supplies. Don't remember any real hardship - just the good fun we had trying to build a "Cresta run" on the hills. And helping elderly neighbours by going to shops with the sledge and bringing them supplies - they tipped well!. The coalman managed to get round also, so there was always a fire to sit in front of.
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Ah i remember that winter well, the little lane we lived down at Aston End nr Stevenage was blocked by snow 2 to 3 ft deep, my dad the other gardener and me (fat lot of use i was) dug about half a mile of that road clear before finally meeting the local farmer in a JCB or its eqivalent.
We were warm at home, massive stocks of logs and food grown by my dad a plenty.
No school for a fortnight either, brilliant.
I hope we get winters like that one again.
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I hope we get winters like that one again.
Don't worry we will, have you noticed how quiet the Global Warming extremists have gone. It was -15C just north of here last night, no problems getting around, main roads well treated and wet, side roads hard packed snow. Mrs ON and myself were out on foot this afternoon, the snow was crunching underfoot, "just like a ski resort" she commented. The car has been in the garage for two days, fortunately we can live without it if necessary.
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have you noticed how quiet the Global Warming extremists have gone.
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As we speak they are in a comittee room somewhere enjoying vegetarian burgers and mulled vimto, dreaming up new slogans and buzz words and juggling figures to blame the recent too cold weather on car users in general but emphasizing the damage cuased by 4x4 owners.
Their propaganda does work, you only have to see the venom on this motoring forum towards owners of such beasts.
Divide and conquer...we as motorists especially here where we have many independent minded souls should be sticking together to fight back, not bickering amongst ourselves thereby offering succour to the enemy.
Glad your enjoying the seasonal weather Navy, we are too.
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Glad your enjoying the seasonal weather Navy we are too.
Thanks, GB. No such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing. Have a good Christmas.
Edited by Old Navy on 24/12/2009 at 18:41
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Have a good Christmas.
Thanks Navy, Merry Christmas to you and the good Lady N.
As i haven't wished one to all the other posters and readers and of course the hard working mods here yet a very good and peaceful Christmas to all.
Edited by gordonbennet on 24/12/2009 at 18:55
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several years ago the local council gritted a footpath so heavily that a woman slipped on the grit and won damages. council will not now grit the footpaths.
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In day's of olde, the country lane in Cornwall where the coach crashed as a result of black ice killing 2 women, would have been gritted by the locals.
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How much was council tax in "old days"?
With increase in population and cars, some problems do not scale up linearly but exponentially!
I also assume there was no absurd Health & Safety law at that time.
Merry Xmas.
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