Pleased to hear that the Kenlowe has proved to be of use Robert
I only wish that I had room to have fitted it on our diesel.My wife will not wait for it to warm up & guns the turbo with impatient glee.
Regards
Simon T.
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Hi Simon,
I've even got it controlled by X10 remote control and will be using it tomorrow morning @ 06:00 when I put the kettle on.
Regards ........ Robert
PS- your unit is on the Megane - I got another one for the Omega!
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There is some further info about this on the Q & A board on the the Range Rover section of the following site: www.lromagazine.com
Go to 18th Sept and there is a subject called Kenlowe Hotstart
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Don't forget the previous discussion in the forum on this subject.
Type in Webasto in tyhe search box and it will take you there.
These are petrol and diesel fuelled heaters. Andy Bairsto fitted one.
Some cars have them as standard to speed up engine warm up eg Rover 75 CDT.
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I like Cyd's experimentation with a fan heater. This seems a useful and economical starting point before going to the trouble and expense of the proper thing.
I suppose it depends which bit of the engine is really benefiting from the pre-warmth. To affect the heater obviously requires the cooling system to be heated, and this would be difficult to achieve except by using the proper plumbed-in system.
But surely the benefits to the engine come from warming the oil, which would suggest that something under the sump might be best. What about one of those all-enclosed tubular heaters, placed permanently on the garage floor about 1/2 inch under the sump, on a timeswitch to give say 2 hours before leaving time?
(I was told a story from Oregan 50 years ago, where they had to drain the oil after a run and put the tin on the stove overnight. Then pour it back in before starting. Failure to do this meant the oil was as thick as grease and it was impossible to turn the engine)
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Received the following from Kenlowe today via email
"Thank you for your enquiry.
Whilst our engine interior pre.-heater 220v system would be ideal for your vehicle and use we are currently preparing for an upgrade to go into production shortly - in the meantime we regret that no stock remains of the previous model. We propose sending information on the next generation as soon as possible - unfortunately whilst we expect this to be ready for this winter there will be a delay of some time in meanwhile, so I trust you will bear with us."
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Brilliantly interesting forum this! - very interested in Kenlowe's comments. I take it they do NOT offer an installation service - pity. I would really like a pre-heater for my BMW 320d for all the claimed benefits (although wouldn't be heartbroken if the MPG didn't improve as it's outstanding anyway - over 60 on a couple of tankfuls, range 800 miles-plus).
The trouble is to even find the relevant coolant pipes in an engine bay which is choc-a-bloc and mostly hidden under plastic mouldings, then to find a place to mount the heater unit, then to decide how/where to site the power connection without drilling a body panel, or having to raise the bonnet to make the connection each time. Anyone done it?
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Oz, I think you'll find your car already has an engine heater. All you need is the bit from Webasto to make it into a preheater. Try them or BMW, it's about £200 ish and takes a few moments to fit.
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Many thanks Dave N! I'll check this out with Webasto and report back.
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Hi Dave N,
I checked and can see where you're coming from.
Webasto's brochure for such units ('Standheizung') are for with and without remote control, priced at 738 to 918 Euros respectively (without installation), for the basic unit on a compact sized car. Webasto have an international network of fitting stations but I gather UK ones will always need to check for compatible parts for right hand drive. Therefore you have to reckon with spending upwards of £800 in the UK!
BMW offer a unit priced at £289 to £323 (plus VAT plus installation) but currently these are for the 5-Series and X5 diesels only. Reason: these models are already fitted with a small wheel-arch mounted oil-burning unit as OEM equipment, and the above prices are for the supplementary components. No doubt if a package can be offered for the 320d, it would turn out much the same as the above £800.
H'm. It's worth waiting to see what Kenlowe will offer in their redesigned product, although presumably this will not be self-contained like the Webasto product, but mains-powered. So if you're away from home, you need a very long cord.
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Hi Oz, that was the part I was on about, but I'm surprised the heater's not already fitted to the 3 series diesels. As the same engine is fitted to the Rover 75 and Land Rover Freelander, and both these have the heater fitted in the wheelarch, I (wrongly) assumed the Beemer would have it as well.
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Hi again Dave,
A postscript regarding Webasto.
It appears that Vehvac of Edenbridge, Kent, are now a (the?) main UK agent for the Webasto heater (see Diesel Car magazine, January 2003, pp 71-72). I'll find out from them how the above Euro prices translate into £ prices for units installed in the UK.
Also from BMW whether they would give such an installation in my 320d the thumbs up or thumbs down (effect on vehicle warranty?).
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Kenlowe have now emailed me for my postal address so they can send the new details - so their new product must be imminent.
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Let us know when you get it through ......
Aye ...
:-))
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Hi Cliff,
I think the only potential problem with this idea is that the tubular heaters are only 60watt/foot.
The Kenlowe is 3kw and takes 45 mins to do the job.
Maybe a tray of hot coals would be better ...............
:-))
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I have had a Hot-Start on my Focus tdi for 3+ years.
Had HUGE difficulty getting it fitted correctly - NOT a DIY job in my crowded engine bay, and having it 'professionally botched' resulted in loss of coolant (x3!) and burnt-out heater units (x2, but replaced foc by Kenlowe). So, it has been a very expensive learning experience, but, now it is correctly installed, it is reassuring on cold (or even cool) mornings, knowing the engine is running in warm oil from the word Go.
I cannot detect any change in my (dismal for a tdi) fuel consumption figures, but feel engine wear MUST have been reduced.
(And I just LOVE starting off in a warm car on a cold morning!).
In summary, expensive to buy, MUST be installed correctly, no apparent improvement in mpg. Generally good, patient, customer service from Kenlowe. Probably only cost-effective if you keep your car a LONG time.
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Has anybody tried this? Take a litre of new, good quality engine oil; put half of it into a sealed container in the freezer overnight. (Consider putting the container in a sealed freezer bag if it is going to be in proximity to food.) Keep the other half litre out at room temperature. Next day compare the pouring characteristics of the two by pouring them separately into clean, dry, clear-glass containers. A freezer is normally at -18 deg C and room temp is around 20 deg C. I wonder how much difference in viscocity one would see? Only a little I would expect.
If you are really serious you could heat some oil to 100 deg C (measuring temp with a chip pan/ cooking thermometer) and compare that (being careful to pour it into a pre-warmed container)!
CMark
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Have YOU tried it? Temperature makes a huge difference to viscosity, hence multigrades. Try pouring golden syrup on a cold morning.. (I know it's not oil, but just humour me!)
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As it so happens, I have a few litres of oil [1] lying around the house. So, a couple of days ago, when SWMBO wasn't looking, I secreted half a litre in the freezer. This morning she went out early, muttering something about going to the office (yes, yes, I know it's Sunday but they do work odd days here in the Middle East) so I set to work myself. I took it out and compared it to a similar quantity I had at room temperature (26 deg C).
As an automotive engineer, I must admit I was still surprised how much of a difference there was. This oil I was using must be just about the best multigrade there is. The cold stuff (-18 deg C) poured like clear honey at room temp; the warmer stuff poured like (warm) sunflower oil. Not exactly a scientific result, I know, but nevertheless tangible. Try it yourself. I was expecting much less of a difference after all these years of industrial chemists' development.
[1] Mobil 1 0W - 50; the last few litres from a 60-litre barrel I bought a few years ago from Mobil's bulk storage facility near Rotterdam harbour.
Cyd, any more fan heater results to report?
CMark
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Yes indeed:
Experiment 3: fan heater on 2kW for 2 hrs. Reference temp reached in 1.8 miles (again).
Experiment 4: fan heater on 2kW for 30 mins. Reference temp reached in 1.8 miles (again).
Experiment 5: fan heater on 1kW for 2hrs. Reference temp reached in 2.2 miles.
It would thus appear that half an hours worth (or so) of fan heating under the bonnet (directly heating the block) is worthwhile provided the heater is on a reasonable power level. Leaving it on for much longer yields no (apparent) further improvement. Having the heater on a low power setting seems to be of little use.
Looking at the LRO site also it would seem that results are mixed with the Kenlowe pre-warmers - owners who try using them outside seem to get little benefit. Having the vehicle in a good garage would appear to be a significant part of the process.
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Claude - thanks for teh tip about Kenlowe Hotstarts and Range Rovers which sounds likely to match my problem. But all I can find on the Ironmagazine site is endless stuff about bodybuilding; please could you give me a more precise idea of which magazine and how to pinpoint the item - was it lifestyle, proteins or what?
many thanks........ john whitley
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John, not IRONmagazine but LROmagazine.com (meaning Landrover Owners Magazine !!). The site has just been re-organised so I cant say that you will definitely find the relevant threads but go to Q & A Board and then to RangeRover.
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John. Correction to my previous message. The new site is WWW.LRO.COM In other words no longer has the word 'magazine' in the address.
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