>>I know, from personal experience, that 4x4s can do nasty and unpredictable things on snow and ice. In addition, they can accelerate very well but cannot stop any better than 2WD cars.
So the upshot is you're better off on snow in a 2wd car? No way but you need to know how to drive on snow to get the best out of them. To save my typing have a look at Subaru's website, they explain the advantages there.
This is a good video:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooQRxlChvMw
Edited by nick on 20/10/2009 at 17:35
|
|
In the days when we had serious snow I was chatting with an AA patrol in the Scottish Highlands. He told me that the 4x4 on his Landrover was mainly used to drag 4x4 mounted skiers out of ditches as they often slid off head first on a bend driving too fast for the conditions. We have a good system on the high main roads in Scotland, snow gates across the road. Open, road ploughed and anything can get through, shut, no one gets through.
|
|
You describe poor driving, not a problem with 4x4 systems.
|
You describe poor driving not a problem with 4x4 systems.
Yes, and 4x4 not necessary even in extreme conditions, and chances are someone will always block your progress anyway. So glad I live near sea level.
Edited by Old Navy on 20/10/2009 at 19:21
|
|
|
|
We have, in the past, lived at altitude both in this country and abroad. Our solution to bad weather was to choose a house near a good pub. If the weather is bad enough to need a 4x4, go to the pub......
Seriously though, if you want a 4x4 fair enough but you won't need one. As others have pointed out, the weakest link is the vehicle in front of you which can't move. You can have all the traction you need but if the road is blocked by other stuck vehicles you just get an uncomfortable wait. I've never tried winter tyres but there does seem to be strong evidence that they are good. I used to have an old Defender when I was teaching skiing. It was good at getting moving when some other cars couldn't but was a pig to drive downhill when it got really slippery due to its weight.
Best car we ever had for those conditions was a Mk1 2wd Panda. Low power, high clearance, skinny tyres etc. Oddly enough the old Xantia was good too. You could pump the suspension up with a wee switch near the gear lever and it would happily drive through quite deep snow. Often the problem is not so much grip at the wheels but of clearance.
If your Focus estate has been a suitable match for your other needs, I'd probably look to replace it with something similar and try the winter tyres.
Good luck in your new home. Lovely neck of the woods.
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 20/10/2009 at 18:35
|
|
|
|
Nick, I've driven 4WD cars for the past 15 years both on and off-road and they can perform amazing feats.
However, from a practical point of view, a 2WD car in the Peaks with winter tyres can perform almost as well as a 4WD (especially one with horrid, wide summer tyres). In addition, if the driver is not experienced in using a 4WD, if the car is pushed to its limit, it will handle unpredictably and dangerously.
Spoke to a lad just over a week ago who rolled his Subaru in the wet. I suspect that he failed to detect the point at which he was on the limit.
The OP here wants the most sensible and economical option for his new home. I still believe that would be winter tyres on his existing car.
Those silly rollers on the video do not represent real road conditions.
|
|
I bow to your greater knowledge doctorchris.
|
|
tinyurl.com/d83kua
|
An advert for Subaru, how helpful.
Seriously though, I would question whether being able to put more power down in snow and ice is really that much of an advantage - most people I know that have had problems have been unable to stop or steer, not go.
|
Yes, thank you, it is helpful. Accurate too. As is the 'silly' rollers video. It is helpful to be able to put more power down, not to go faster, but to make the grip/traction envelope bigger. If you have traction, you can steer. It also works in reverse, engine braking is spread over four wheels.
AWD won't defy the laws of physics but it gives a wider range of situations in which the car is controllable.
Still, please yourselves :)
|
|
|
|
Nick, you're contribution emphasises the 2 differing benefits of 4WD.
For a high powered vehicle, 4WD allows drive to all wheels to prevent nasty wheelspin if power only goes to one axle.
For an off-road vehicle, 4WD allows traction to all 4 wheels in slippery conditions to permit the driver to continue on his way, albeit at low speed, despite driving on mud, snow, ice, etc that would stop an ordinary car.
I drive a Fiat Panda Cross 1.3 Diesel now which does not require 4WD to control the transfer of power to the road. Most Subarus benefit from 4WD to control the transfer of their power to the road. However, the Subaru is the more dangerous as, once the phenomenal power exceeds the ability of 4WD to transfer it safely to the road, the car will become very unpredictable.
My previous car, a Fiat Panda 4x4 Climbing, without the power to remove the skin off a rice pudding, could behave in a very unpredictable manner on a wet road.
|
>>However, the Subaru is the more dangerous as, once the phenomenal power exceeds the ability of 4WD to transfer it safely to the road, the car will become very unpredictable.
My previous car, a Fiat Panda 4x4 Climbing, without the power to remove the skin off a rice pudding, could behave in a very unpredictable manner on a wet road.
Once again, you are describing poor driving. Take two cars, identical apart from one is fulltime awd and the other isn't. The awd will have a bigger safe performance envelope than the 2wd. If someone is daft enough to exceed the limits in either car, then the driver not the car is at fault.
But enough already, I'm tired of this.
|
Nick, I agree with you that 4x4 is a very good thing in a performance car. The Subaru's that I have driven feel incredibly planted, and being able to blast out of corners is fantastic.
I don't agree that it helps with steering. At all. I really don't think it makes any difference.
Interesing point about 4 wheel engine braking though. I hadn't considered that - might be useful rather than the ABS 'can't stop' effect. Hmm.
Edited by Gordon M on 21/10/2009 at 17:09
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
