Why is the Uk the only country that does not turn its traffic lights off at night?
Also why does it not allow left turns when lights are on red?
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Not sure what you mean about left turns if lights are on red because you would end up cutting up the traffic comong the other way.
As for night well in many cases it can be just as busy and people tend to be a lot more complacent at night due to less traffic. I agree that on less busy roads lights can be silly at 3:00am in the morning.
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Not sure what you mean about left turns if lights are on red because you would end up cutting up the traffic comong the other way.
Well obviously if traffic iis coming you do not turn but its legal in most countries in Europe to turn right on red lights if the road is clear
As for night well in many cases it can be just as busy and people tend to be a lot more complacent at night due to less traffic. I agree that on less busy roads lights can be silly at 3:00am in the morning.
Really!
Ok there are a few lights you do not turn off but you could probably turn off 90%
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Spot on julie. we shoudl do both of those things, like the states and much of europe.
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Flashing amber as on the continent during quiet times yes.
Turn right on red - no because too many UK car drivers don't understand that pedestrians have right of way. If you give car drivers the right to turn on red they will treat this as carte blanche to carry on regarldess of anyone crossing.
From my limited experience US drivers turning on red do stop for pedestrians crossing.
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From my experience, when traffic lights are off, especially in the rush hour, traffic flows much better as everyone is more aware due to the "change" from their normal morning procedure, shakes them out their comas!!
Of course, not very good if you are a pedestrian waiting on the "wee green man" !
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Our traffic lights operate all night, which is a pest on the wee small hours.
One useful thing we do have [ on intersections where there is sufficent space ] is a left turn slip lane guarded by a Give Way sign, with the lights referring only to straight ahead and right turn. The GW sign also refers to allowing passage of any pedestrians who may wish to cross to the dividing island ready for the "green man".
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We have the safest roads in Europe. I've no problem with the way it is.
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Why is the Uk the only country that does not turn its traffic lights off at night?
Is it? I don't know. Where does your information come from?
Thankfully, we've got safer roads than them, anyway. Proper sensors are the answer, not "switching off" traffic signals.
Also why does it not allow left turns when lights are on red?
What? We do, where there are filters.
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Also why does it not allow left turns when lights are on red?
I agree. Most cyclists do that, so why not all other traffic?
;-)
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Whenever I've come across lights that have failed for whatever reason, the traffic seems to be flowing much quicker than normal.
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Yeah, but they don't always put traffic lights up to speed things up. They're put there for safety reasons, or to give traffic on minor roads a chance of joining busier roads.
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Whenever I've come across lights that have failed for whatever reason the traffic seems to be flowing much quicker than normal.
......and the pedestrians are left stratching their heads wondering how they are ever going to get across the road.
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I'd agree with the OP that "flashing ambers" in certain locations are a good idea, as are left turns on reds... as long as its well publicised that pedestrians have right of way... And therein lies my concern, whilst on the Continent it seems to work well in the countries I've visited I would also add that I've found their driving much more disciplined as well... unlike WP and his wish for variable speed limits I'm not convinced that the majority of drivers over here have the common sense and discipline for it to work safely for other road users...
Edited by b308 on 07/10/2009 at 18:54
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(left turns on reds) are a good idea... as long as its well publicised that pedestrians have
right of way... And therein lies my concern
Given that the number of motorists who know (or apply) Highway Code rule 170 (pedestrians who have started to cross a junction have priority) are about zero, then I echo your concern.
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IN many counties pedestrians treat traffic with respect, they cross at points provided for crossings, wait for the lights to let them go and traffic to stop, cross at the proper time. If the pedestrian causes an accident or causes danger gets fined
Here they cross anywhere, even when the flashing man tells them it is about to let the traffic go, as a result most vehicle/pedestrian accidents are the fault of the pedestrian
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Julie,
While I tend to agree with left turn on red and lights that flash amber (or are peak only on roundabouts) the assertion that most vehicle/ped accidents are the fault of peds won't wash.
In the UK the pedestrian has, excepting the motorways and certain other restricted roads, a right of way over motor vehicles. It's our duty as drivers to watch out for them. If they step out without observing then the motorist avoids liabilty but unlike the US and some mainland European states we have no "jaywalking" law.
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Might not wash with you but that is the statistics
Sadly there is no "jaywalking" law, but there should be!
In the UK the pedestrian has excepting the motorways and certain other restricted roads a right of way over motor vehicles.
This is rubbish!
Ever heard of the green cross code?
Or are you suggest that if I jump in front of a vehicle tomorrow I can sue the driver for injuries
Drivers and pedestrians have equal responsibility to use the road safetly
Edited by julie page on 08/10/2009 at 00:13
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Might not wash with you but that is the statistics
Come on then, show us your source for this extraordinary claim.
>> In the UK the pedestrian has excepting the motorways and certain other >> restricted roads a right of way over motor vehicles. This is rubbish!
And again, please.
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IN many counties pedestrians treat traffic with respect they cross at points provided for crossings wait for the lights to let them go and traffic to stop cross at the proper time. If the pedestrian causes an accident or causes danger gets fined
It's the same here as well, isn't it, dear. However, a pedestrian is allowed to cross anywhere, except on certain roads such as motorways, where they're not allowed - and pedestrians do, as a rule, have right of way.
Here they cross anywhere even when the flashing man tells them it is about to let the traffic go as a result most vehicle/pedestrian accidents are the fault of the pedestrian
No, they aren't. BTW, if you turn out to be the egg'n'chips man in drag, I shouldn't be surprised.
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>> Might not wash with you but that is the statistics Come on then show us your source for this extraordinary claim.
National Office of Statistics FotheringtonThomas, these are for 2007 last available
note that more than one factor may be recorded for each accident
Pedestrian failed to look properly 59%
Pedestrian careless, reckless or in a hurry 25%
Vehicle Failed to look properly 19%
Pedestrian crossing road masked by vehicle 17%
Pedestrian failed to judge vehicle?s path or speed 16%
Pedestrian impaired by alcohol 12%
Vehicle Careless, reckless or in a hurry 8%
Pedestrian dangerous action in carriageway (eg. playing) 7%
Vehicles vision impaired by stationary or parked vehicle(s) 5%
Pedestrian wrong use of pedestrian crossing facility 5%
>> >> In the UK the pedestrian has excepting the motorways and certain other >> >> restricted roads a right of way over motor vehicles. >> >> This is rubbish! And again please.
And again what?
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I'm surprised by the alchohol one being so low!
Though I am interested where FT got his ascertion that pedestrians have right of way on "ordinary" roads from - FT I feel that it is you which need to enlighten us rather than Julie, as my understanding is that except in "marked" crossing places (Zebra for instance) the vehicle has the right of way over a pedestrian on the road?!
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>> >> Might not wash with you but that is the statistics >> >> Come on then show us your source for this extraordinary claim.
National Office of Statistics FotheringtonThomas these are for 2007 last available note that more than one factor may be recorded for each accident
You missed a bit out:-
"Why do pedestrian accidents happen?
Contributory factors. Details of factors contributing to injury accidents are recorded by the police. Whilst it is not possible to determine blame from these contributory factors they may offer some insight into common types of accident"
This does not say that "most vehicle/pedestrian accidents are the fault of the pedestrian".
>> >> >> In the UK the pedestrian has excepting the motorways and certain other >> >> >> restricted roads a right of way over motor vehicles. >> >> >> >> This is rubbish! >> >> And again please. And again what?
I thought it was obvious - I'm asking you for some sort of evidence that the statement "In the UK the pedestrian has excepting the motorways and certain other restricted roads a right of way over motor vehicles" is "rubbish".
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I thought it was obvious - I'm asking you for some sort of evidence that the statement "In the UK the pedestrian has excepting the motorways and certain other restricted roads a right of way over motor vehicles" is "rubbish".
The fact is that you give way to pedestrians regardless of legalities. You may of course be justified in questioning their acncestry/sanity when you encounter a suicidal one.
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You missed a bit out:- "Why do pedestrian accidents happen? Contributory factors. Details of factors contributing to injury accidents are recorded by the police. Whilst it is not possible to determine blame from these contributory factors they may offer some insight into common types of accident" This does not say that "most vehicle/pedestrian accidents are the fault of the pedestrian".
Why is it not possible to determine blame? Common seance - for these that have any - would lead to a conclusion from the statistics show that the majority of accidents between a vehicle and pedestrian, the pedestrian is at fault.
After all FotheringtonThomas, if you fail to look properly and walk in front of a car who do you think is to blame?
Come on then FotheringtonThomas show us your sources
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Why is it not possible to determine blame?
It is, but the figures you showed as doing so don't.
Come on then FotheringtonThomas show us your sources
You made the claim, you back it up.
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SQ
I thought it was obvious - I'm asking you for some sort of evidence that the statement "In the UK the pedestrian has excepting the motorways and certain other restricted roads a right of way over motor vehicles" is "rubbish".
The HC clearly states that pedestrians should use pavements where they are provided, makes no mention of them haveing "right of way" over motor vehicles, and finally gives clear intructions how they should cross a road... which also, by definition, means that they have to give way to motor vehicles... I feel that alone is sufficient evidence that pedestrians do not have right of way over motor vehicles on the majority of our roads (except at certain crossing places), FT... now as I asked before, your evidence is?
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 08/10/2009 at 14:45
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The HC clearly states that pedestrians should use pavements where they are provided makes no mention of them haveing "right of way" over motor vehicles and finally gives clear intructions
As already stated up thread, pedestrians have right of way at a junction once they are in the road, see second bullet point :-
www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycod...2
edit : which would be the case when turning left on red as originally discussed.
Edited by SpamCan61 {P} on 08/10/2009 at 16:25
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As already stated up thread pedestrians have right of way at a junction once they are in the road
I did also say "except at certain cossing points" which you had cut from my post... but in general they don't have right of way... unless FT knows different?
Edited by b308 on 08/10/2009 at 17:31
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I would support both these ideas, Julie, the problem is that it might require some thought by a significant proportion of motorists - which would never do :-(
Particularly perverse is the following scenario:
Driving along a deserted dual-carriageway in the wee small hours. Lights ¼ mile away on green - they stay green until you reach the controller's detection zone then - they turn red :-(
No vehicles whatsoever emerge from the side roads. 'Your' lights then turn green again and off you go........
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