No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car

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Mon 14 Sep 2009 11:09
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - Optimist
When I watch the various police and cars programmes on the TV, I notice how often the driver thought to have broken the law is asked to come and sit in the police car.

Now it may be that it's something to do with the filming, but if it's not, can anyone say exactly what is going on?

Because I must say that I'm not terribly enthusiastic about it (not entirely sure why) and if I were stopped and asked to join the policeman in his car, I think I'd politely say "no, but you can sit in my car with me".

Anyone see a problem in that?
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Mon 14 Sep 2009 11:20
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - Old Navy
Once you are in their "office" they have access to all the databases and communication systems, video of your alleged transgression, and its two witnesses against you if there is a later dispute in court. Oh!, and the child locks will be on and rear windows disabled.

Edited by Old Navy on 14/09/2009 at 11:23

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Mon 14 Sep 2009 11:26
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - drbe
the driver thought to have broken the law is asked to come and sit
in the police car.>>>> Now it may be that it's something to do with the filming >>

>>

My guess - speaking as a layman - is that:-
1. The car is video equipped and they can show the driver what he has done, if necessary.
2. I believe the back door of the police car can only be opened from the outside, so that once he is in the back, he can't get out unless he is released.
3. The police officer is in control of the situation.

If I were the 'offending' driver and there was a chance that I could get away with a reprimand and nothing worse, I would be very careful not to fail 'the attitude test'.
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Mon 14 Sep 2009 11:32
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - Old Navy
Good point, drbe, declining the invitation would not improve your chances of passing the "test".
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Mon 14 Sep 2009 13:31
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - ijws15
They would be concerned that you might drive away with them in the car, have hidden weapons etc. It is also surprising how many drivers change their approach once in the back ofthe police car.

They would not accept and would approach you differently because you asked.

Not worth trying really.
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Mon 14 Sep 2009 14:50
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - Cliff Pope
It would be safer to leave both cars on the hard shoulder and retreat on to the verge. Then with a bit of luck all his evidence will be destroyed by the next sleeping driver.
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Mon 14 Sep 2009 14:58
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - Old Navy
It would be safer to leave both cars on the hard shoulder and retreat on
to the verge. Then with a bit of luck all his evidence will be destroyed
by the next sleeping driver.

I bet the video storage device is aircraft black box standard, and probably cruise missile proof! After all it is evidence. Got to tick the boxes and meet the targets. :-)

Edited by Old Navy on 14/09/2009 at 15:01

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Mon 14 Sep 2009 15:39
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - Cliff Pope
I wonder whether the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 applies to a police car?

Voluntary attendance at police station etc.
Where for the purpose of assisting with an investigation a person attends voluntarily at a police station or at any other place where a constable is present or accompanies a constable to a police station or any such other place without having been arrested?
(a)
he shall be entitled to leave at will unless he is placed under arrest;
(b)
he shall be informed at once that he is under arrest if a decision is taken by a constable to prevent him from leaving at will.

So the moment he activates the door lock you have to be informed that you are under arrest.




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Mon 14 Sep 2009 15:44
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - NowWheels
Because I must say that I'm not terribly enthusiastic about it (not entirely sure why)
and if I were stopped and asked to join the policeman in his car I
think I'd politely say "no but you can sit in my car with me".


Give the possible risks to the police officer of sitting in my car, how about I say to the officer something like "No thanks, I don't want to sit in your car. But I do accept that you may have some good reasons why you too might not want to sit in someone else's car, so I suggest that I now step out of my car and we both stand outside while I try to help you with your enquiries".

Isn't that a fairly reasonable approach?
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Mon 14 Sep 2009 22:04
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - Bilboman
It's an interesting point which I hadn't given much thought to before. It's obviously a question of being "in charge of the situation" whilst a PC sitting in the back of the stopped motorist's car is potentially vulnerable. And I wonder if any amateur Human Rights lawyers out there have ever tried the following line just before getting into the car:
"I am entering your car voluntarily, on the basis that if I ask to leave at any time you will not detain me and the door locking mechanism will not be activated - is that correct?"
None of this applies when being stopped by a motorcycle cop, of course. ("Please step up and sit on my pillion, Sir...")
Final thought - have any BRers any experience of being stopped and questioned by a PC on a bicycle? Just wondering....
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Mon 14 Sep 2009 23:09
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - alfatrike
None of this applies when being stopped by a motorcycle cop of course. ("Please step
up and sit on my pillion Sir...")



if you did he could do you for not wearing a helmet. theyem sneeky like that sometimes.
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Mon 14 Sep 2009 23:20
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - zookeeper
i imagine its safer to be interrogated sat in a police car thats lit up like a christmas tree rather than sat in your tarmac coloured death trap, ideally though sat on the grass verge tuther side of the crash barrier has to be safest option , but if its raining ..yeah right
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Tue 15 Sep 2009 09:17
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - Cliff Pope
I wonder whether it has ever been legally tested, as to whether the inside of a police car is "police territory" just like a police station - eg like a British embassy being UK sovereign territory?

It has been pointed out in parliamentary debate that someone going voluntarily to a police station actually has fewer statutory rights than someone who has been arrested.
Certainly in the public eye it carries an unfavourable impression - it means they are on to you, but haven't quite got enough evidence yet to make a charge.
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Tue 15 Sep 2009 12:53
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - helicopter
I seem to recall on one of the police programmes a businessman type who when stopped for speeding locked his car doors and spoke to the policeman through an small gap in the window.

He adamantly refused to leave his car and was given a ticket through the small gap.

I wonder if the same thing would have happened if he wasn't being filmed?
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Tue 15 Sep 2009 16:12
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - madux
Final thought - have any BRers any experience of being stopped and questioned by a
PC on a bicycle? Just wondering....

Yes.
When I had my first motorcycle, aged 17, I used to get stopped by the same plod every time he saw me - I suppose that would be harassment these days -
The last time he stopped me he said he was going to report me for non-functioning indicators.
I pointed out that indicators don't have to work if you don't have any but he was adamant - insisted I would soon be receiving a summons. I never did, of course.
Strange thing was, as he was 'Questioning' me, he was riding in circles around me, stopping only to get his notebook out to write down my reg. n°.
Perhaps he thought I might escape by throwing the 'bike into reverse?
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Tue 15 Sep 2009 19:13
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - Optimist
Some interesting thoughts about this.

I wonder if Cliff Pope is right when he more or less suggests that if you find yourself in the back of a police car and the door can only be opened from the outside, you're effectively under arrest. If (perish the thought) there was some confusion about shoplifting, say, I doubt you'd be handcuffed to something while the matter was discussed.

I see the point that the officer might want to show you a bit of poor driving on a screen in his car but I still think I'd want to stay put.

The "attitude test" idea is a funny one. When I watch Car Wars, and the like, I'm fascinated by the attitude some people display.

Last week a lorry driver stopped by an officer in an unmarked car for pushing through and for failing to wear a seat-belt, got fed up with debating the point about failure to give way and told the officer to "do" him if he wanted. The officer did, but only for the seat belt failure.

The conversation was absurd, with the officer accusing the driver of "smirking" and for a while I was wondering if there was an offence of smirking without a seat belt.

As I say, I think I'd stay put.

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Tue 15 Sep 2009 20:47
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - Kevin
>how about I say to the officer something like "No thanks, I don't want to sit in your car.

That might be a good choice considering that whatever happens in the US usually finds it's way over here.

An incident occurred close to where we lived in Austin where a female student was stopped by a bogus cop and assaulted. The local PD advised anyone unsure if a cop was genuine to keep all doors locked, wind the window down a fraction, and ask the "cop" to follow you to a place of relative safety. ie. A 24hr gas station or similar.

I wonder what the reaction of UK plod would be if you tried that here.

Kevin...
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Tue 15 Sep 2009 19:35
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - L'escargot
say "no, but you can sit in my car with me".

Anyone see a problem in that?



I wouldn't want a police officer to sit in my car because of the risk of whatever dirt he might have on his uniform/clothes or footwear transferring to my car.
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Tue 15 Sep 2009 20:07
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - Old Navy
Or his equipment belt damaging the trim or his CS gas / taser accidentally discharging!

Edited by Old Navy on 15/09/2009 at 20:08

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Tue 15 Sep 2009 20:49
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - Fullchat
Motoring topics a bit thin on the ground today then????

A Police vehicle is not classed as Police premises. However if a member of the public is spoken to and interviewed they should be cautioned and informed that they are NOT under arrest and may leave at any time they wish just in case they are under any misapprehension that they are under arrest.

The only major difference that effects your average client between being within Police premises and in a Police car is the in a Police Station they are entitled to FREE legal advice, in a car they can have a legal advice but it is not necessarily free at that point.

If your car had broken down or been involved in a collision in freezing wet weather perhaps some of you would not want a warm up inside a toasty traffic car whilst waiting for recovery then?

Edited by Fullchat on 15/09/2009 at 20:51

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Tue 15 Sep 2009 21:02
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - NowWheels
If your car had broken down or been involved in a collision in freezing wet
weather perhaps some of you would not want a warm up inside a toasty traffic
car whilst waiting for recovery then?


Different situation, I think.

I thought we were were talking about what happens after police ask you to stop your vehicle, rather a cop offering assistance after a collision or breakdown, and one f
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Tue 15 Sep 2009 21:05
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - Old Navy
Motoring topics a bit thin on the ground today then????

Looks that way. :-)
If your car had broken down or been involved in a collision in freezing wet
weather perhaps some of you would not want a warm up inside a toasty traffic
car whilst waiting for recovery then?

Thats providing assistance to the public, as opposed to law enforcement.
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Tue 15 Sep 2009 21:06
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - ifithelps
...Motoring topics a bit thin on the ground today then????....

Not as thin on the ground as coppers on the beat around here, mate.
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Tue 15 Sep 2009 21:56
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - Westpig
Re the entry about the police equipment belt doing some damage to someone's car...

I once had to move someone's Bentley whilst at work....this person is exceptionally well known, even nowadays and right up there on the VIP list, can't get a great deal higher.....trouble was i got into the driving seat and my spare p.r. clip (personal radio clip, spare ones were handy to put keys on)...went right through the leather seat and wrapped itself around the seat piping....and it only became obvious when I tried to get out, couldn't because I was restrained by it...and made the hole worse

I did the usual thing that a person would when you're in your early 20's and have dropped an enormous boo-boo....manipulated the leather back into the hole as best i could and kept quiet about it....wondered if i'd get 'the summons' up to the main bosses office for some months afterwards..... never heard a thing.

Edited by Westpig on 15/09/2009 at 21:57

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Wed 16 Sep 2009 10:18
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - Optimist
Fullchat wrote >> if a member of the public is spoken to and interviewed they should be cautioned and informed that they are NOT under arrest and may leave at any time they wish just in case they are under any misapprehension that they are under arrest. >>

I am finding it hard to follow this. Are we being told that if stopped by a policeman in connection with a prosecutable traffic offence we should be given the form of words about anything you say, etc, etc?

But we should also be told we're not under arrest and are free to go?

How does that work, because I thought the caution came after the arrest, and if what FC says is right, isn't every policeman we see on TV failing to follow the correct procedure?



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Wed 16 Sep 2009 10:46
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - Westpig
I am finding it hard to follow this. Are we being told that if stopped
by a policeman in connection with a prosecutable traffic offence we should be given >>the form of words about anything you say etc etc?
But we should also be told we're not under arrest and are free to go?
How does that work because I thought the caution came after the arrest and if
what FC says is right isn't every policeman we see on TV failing to follow
the correct procedure?

There are two types of caution. One for after an arrest, the other for when you're going to speak to someone about an offence, but are not necessarily planning on arresting them.

e.g 1. Mouthy yob in street, inebriated, alleged to have thrown brick through window, with independent witness. Arrest and caution.

e.g. 2. Great Aunt Maude is alleged to have committed a medium serious traffic offence, let's say an accident with a fail to stop element. You stop her up the road and you arrange for her to attend the police station of her own free will and you interview her. You caution her before the interview and tell her she's not under arrest and free to leave at any time. If she did get up and go, you'd summons her and her refusal to co-operate would no doubt be part of the evidence or at least the fact she had the opportunity to explain things and didn't.
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Wed 16 Sep 2009 10:56
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - ifithelps
Or put more simply:

"You are not under arrest, but unless you behave as if you are, you will be."

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Wed 16 Sep 2009 11:34
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - Ravenger
There's an excellent lecture by American lawyer Professor James Duane called "Don't Talk To The Police." You can find it on You Tube.

He points out that it's never in your interest to talk to the police voluntarily about an alleged offence. Police are trained in interview techniques, and these 'chats' are more to establish your guilt than to prove your innocence. Even a totally innocuous remark can be treated as an admission of guilt. Also if you're under arrest you have more rights than if you go for a 'voluntary' chat. There's a reason why we have a right to remain silent (even if that's been eroded in recent years in the UK).

If I'd been accused of a minor traffic offence I'd not have much of a problem getting in the police vehicle, though if I had a passenger with me I'd ask if could I have them accompany me. (As an independent witness), and I would be very careful what I said.

I'd never go into a police station for a 'voluntary' interview about an alleged offence - motoring or otherwise - unless a lawyer was present. See the video for details why.
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Wed 16 Sep 2009 11:48
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - Westpig
I'd never go into a police station for a 'voluntary' interview about an alleged offence
- motoring or otherwise - unless a lawyer was present. See the video for details
why.


that's overly simplistic.....there can be times when a simple explanation up front can clear things up nicely and you can do yourself an awful lot of favours....although conversely i'd concede there are times when you can drop yourself right in it
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Wed 16 Sep 2009 11:59
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - Optimist
You may have answered this before on here, WP, but is there a third type of caution which you accept and the matter is then not taken further to prosecution?

Or is that included in what you've already described?


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Wed 16 Sep 2009 12:37
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - Westpig
You may have answered this before on here WP but is there a third type
of caution which you accept and the matter is then not taken further to prosecution?

the two i've mentioned above are cautionary words that an officer is obliged to give to someone who may be suspected of an offence, one having been arrested and the other being interviewed

the third one is a 'disposal' option within the criminal justice system of offering someone a Formal Caution as an alternative to prosecution. It's designed as an alternative for minor matters that can free up the courts. Think of it as a kind of formal reprimand (although that in itself is a term used for juveniles, so it gets complicated).

So the first two are a sentence spoken to a potential suspect either having been arrested or simply being interviewed...and the latter is a formal process, a type of mini conviction for a criminal offence, after a suspect has admitted the offence.....(it's not a conviction as such, but you do have a record kept of it for a period of time and your DNA, fingerprints etc are kept)
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Wed 16 Sep 2009 14:58
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - L'escargot
2. I believe the back door of the police car can only be opened from
the outside so that once he is in the back he can't get out unless
he is released.


On the one occasion that I was stopped by a police car I was asked to sit in the front passenger seat of the police car, not the back. Was this an unusual privilege? (Incidentally, I accepted the invitation gracefully because I saw no reason to do otherwise.)
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Sat 28 Dec 2019 02:39
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - ryan lumb

being related to a few people in law enforcement and the uk police force ypu are not legally committing an offence by refusing to sit in the back of a police officers car unless you have broken the law ie arrest warrants or a car chase they may wish to stand outside on a routine check lol x

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Sat 4 Jan 2020 13:04
No thanks, officer, but you can sit in my car - HGV ~ P Valentine

I think if you refused to do as you are asked then you would not only alert them to thinking you had something to hide, but also fail the attitude test ( nice phrase by the way ), maybe 1 of the reasons they ask is to stop you from adjusting anything in the car that might have made them stop you in the first place.

I was stopped once for doing 75 on the motorway, so I pulled over on the hard shoulder, turned the engine off, got out of the car and started walking towards the police car I was asked to stay in the car and wait for them to come to me, the officer sat in the car and said I can either do you for speeding or for not wearing a seat belt, which would you like ? I think had I not been so co operative they would have done me for both.

if you disagree with their actions the time to argue the case is in the courts and not on the side of the road, if you make them work for it they can go through your car with a fine tooth comb and do you for anything and everything that is wrong with it.

Least said soonest mended and you can continue on your way in the shortest time.

As a hgv driver the police do not have the right to get access to the tachograph so a driver can refuse to show it to them, but. should you do that they have the right to stop you going anywhere until a vosa officer turns up. The first will take 10 minutes and most police do not know how to read the cards anyway, the 2nd a few hours. The first they may only look at the tacho, the 2nd they can use that time to check everything on the truck. Its a no brainer isn't it ?

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