The Marina was actually a thoroughly competent car in its day and leagues ahead of the awful little 2CV. traitors were too busy helping the economies of foreign countries rather than contributing to BL's development budget.
Different type of car though - the 2CV was designed with one main purpose in mind and it ticked all the boxes at that time, didn't it? :)
But I wouldn't call people "traitors" for buying a product offered by a foreign country. Too young to remember the Marina (wasn't quite born) but if they couldn't be bothered to get something as simple/elementary as the wipers set up for it's home market, that wouldn't inspire me with much confidence! ;)
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The Marina was actually a thoroughly competent car in its day and leagues ahead of the awful little 2CV.
The Marina was an obsolescent, boring, old-fashioned shopping trolley, in fact more or less a rebodied Morris Minor 1000, streets behind many of its direct competitors which included the Citroen GS and the Alfasud. To compare it to the 2CV, designed in the 1930s and still more advanced in many ways than the Marina thirty years later, as well as being a different sort of car altogether, is half-witted or perverse.
The Marina was an example of the smug, cynical, greedy, short-sighted product policy that helped sink BL. Honest, backward, trusting British punters bought the thing when their sons urged them not to and helped the carphounds running BL to get away with it for a few more years. Tchah!
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>>>streets behind many of its direct competitors which included the Citroen GS and the Alfasud.<<<
Ah! The true definition of a classic ... and both are boxers!
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LOL in the interest of entertainment: www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGeB7Tq1DX4
... coincidentally, also makes a passing reference to the GS and Alfasud! :)
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>>>LOL in the interest of entertainment: www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGeB7Tq1DX4<<<
Trrrrrrrrific! but ... if I *had to* drive one of those British horror stories. I'd pick the Marina over the Allagro anyday!
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The Marina was an example of the smug, cynical, greedy, short-sighted product policy ..
The Marina was a penny-pinching attempt by BL to collar some share of the market occupied by the Cortina with some success - hence the name. Do you regard the Ford vehicle with the same disdain, Lud?
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Yes, the Marina was certainly no worse than the very crude, unsophisticated Cortina. In all honesty, I do not believe the Marina or Maestro to be the best cars BL produced, but I do recognise there value as classics, especially as good ones are probably rarer than many more exotic cars that are called 'classic' without hesitation.
If it is engineering excellence one covets, look no further than the BMC 1800/2200, easily the best car ever concieved by Issigonis and that simply has to make it the best car, in the world, ever. The fact that a good minter like this can be yours for the price of a Perodua is barely believable.
tinyurl.com/lnl279
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If it is engineering excellence one covets look no further than the BMC 1800/2200 easily the best car ever concieved by Issigonis and that simply has to make it the best car in the world ever.
TBH I think that the Princess was the better version of that car, especially in 2200 form... the original 1800/2200 never really looked right in 3-box form.
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But I do recognise the Marina's or Maestro's value as classics ...
Hector, we must agree to differ about the meaning of the word Classic. It means more than just rarity earned by obsolescence. With cars it usually implies (to me at any rate) a degree of excellence or original innovation which was recognised at the time and earned respect (which may now have matured into reverence) resulting in good sales figures. I suspect Marinas and Maestros were mainly bought by dyed-in-the-wool BMC devotees. I was one of those when 1100s and Maxis were current - one test drive in a (used) Maestro convinced me to look elsewhere.
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The meaning of the word Classic....... It means more than just rarity earned by obsolescence. With cars it usually implies (to me at any rate) a degree of excellence or original innovation which was recognised at the time and earned respect.
OK, so by that token, the Marina may not be regarded as a classic but, in my book, still deserves to be preserved because it is still an important piece of British motoring history. The Maestro, on the other hand, must surely meet your criteria for being a classic? It won praise when it was launched for its fantastic cabin space, advanced technology (ECU), gorgeous design and excellent ride and handling. Alas, it suffered early reliability niggles which damaged its image beyond repair.
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The Maestro ... won praise when it was launched for its fantastic cabin space ...
IMHO it would make more sense to claim the Metro as a classic - the Maestro was merely an enlarged Metro (clever name really), much as the 1100 was an enlarged Mini. And I would guess that more Metros were sold than Maestros?
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The Maestro was a far better car than the metro in all respects and as for numbers sold, I don't think that has any bearing upon a cars classic status, what matters is how many survive.
An excerpt from 'AROnline'.......
"The Maestro was immediately lauded by the motoring press, who after driving it in the South of Spain, commended it for its tidy styling, contemporary feel, excellent economy and practicality. It continued the good work that the Metro had done in winning new friends."
"As the road test verdict of the 1.6HLS from Autocar testified, 'As it is, the Maestro is sufficiently quick for the time being, and impressively efficient. Its handling and general cornering behaviour are excellent, but the ride could be improved further. Its road noise levels disappoint, as to a lesser degree does the extent to which one hears the engine. But overall, it proves to be a very likeable and professional piece of contemporary motor car engineering."
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Didn't it have conventional suspension ? We had one as a company car - as a driver's car it was excellent - The only thing that cast a shadow on this car was the discovery of a dried turd in the boot when we took delivery of the factory fresh one we had.
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a dried turd in the boot when we took delivery of the factory fresh one we had.
I trust you returned the car to the dealer to have it removed and replaced with the factory fresh one PU?
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I had a Maestro, several cars after a Maxi. I thought it seemed a retrograde step, particularly in rear passenger and boot space.
Edited by bathtub tom {p} on 23/08/2009 at 16:54
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>> a dried turd in the boot when we took delivery of the factory fresh one we had.
I mentioned the dried ordure to a pal.
He told me of a colleague at work who bought a new Princess.
Some wag at the factory had marked a very rude comment on the inside of the windscreen before it was laminated. It showed up in the sun and couldn't be removed...needing a new screen eventually.
Ted
Edited by 1400ted on 25/08/2009 at 00:11
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I bought a 2 year old Maestro 1.3L in 1988, owned it for 4 years/60K miles, and i can honestly say that it was comfortable, handled well, was spacious, economical, had resonable performance (mine had a 5 speed gearbox), and was reliable, sure it had a few niggles, but they were cheap and easy to sort out.
I had a company MK4 Escort at the same time, and the Maestro was definately the better car !
IMHO they were nowhere near as bad as their reputation !
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IMHO they were nowhere near as bad as their reputation !
Quite so, andyp, quite so. Finally there is someone willing to vouch for the poor little Maestro in its quest for becoming a classic. When one looks at the opposition of the time, one realises just how big a leap forward the Maestro was. With its sophisticated electronic engine management system and digital dash, it boasted a depth of engineering that no rivals could match. Trouble is, by that time, everone in this country was determined to believe that all British motorcars were hopeless and so it never sold in the numbers it should have.
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A ex-colleage who had something of a reputation as a practical joker was given a new Rover 214 as a company car.
Someone, I can't think now who it could have been as it was ever so childish....put an ungutted mackerel under the spare wheel. Took him weeks to discover the source of the smell.
Are you sure the turd was OE Pug ?
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It was - it was in the spare wheel well - obviously some Brummie's idea of a joke.
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To quote Clarkson, "Which slovenly midlander built this!"
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Do you regard the Ford vehicle with the same disdain, Lud?
Certainly not. Cortinas were faster, tougher and cheaper to run. There were some very quick sporting Cortinas. And of course they had Ford gearboxes too, if that means anything to anyone. Fords were easily tweakable and worth tweaking. Marinas could also be tweaked fairly easily, but those front dampers were such rubbish you'd have had to spend a damn fortune on the chassis.
Absolutely no contest.
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Must also have been one of the last to have kingpins.
My grease gun was borrowed on numerous occasions by owners who, having failed to adequately grease them, would pump them full of grease in a vain attempt to get them through an MOT. It never did.
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And of course they had Ford gearboxes too if that means anything toanyone.
It does to me. A change so light and precise it still knocks spots off many of today's offerings, plus they stood any amount of abuse.
My late father's predilection for Fords was mainly influenced by their sheer driveability, and the robustness of the drivetrain. My grandfather, on the other hand, was a diehard Austin man who never forgave the company for ceasing production of the A35 van!
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the A35 van!
A vehicle far better and more sporting than a Marina, Harleyman... they were raced and James Hunt drove one on the road after retiring from racing.
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i might have said it before but i repeat
if you have something like a marina with seized swivels do not spend all day with the gas axe unseiziing them,do as i was shown 20 odd years ago, hit them with a cold chisel break them get them off, replace them with new and as its now a classic show car drizzle them with hypoid 90
the show goesa on>> >> the A35 van!
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Yes, I've seen the little brutes (well, the saloon form anyway) being belted round a circuit; once one has overcome the incongruousness of the sight, it's actually quite entertaining!
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I was chatting to the owner of a 'hot' A35. It had a front anti-roll bar (IIRC they never did originally) apparently from a Spridget. He'd cut away the sump and welded a new re-shaped front end to accommodate it!
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Anyone who considers a Marina to be competent has obviously never driven a 1.8 one round a corner in wet conditions.
It was abysmal.
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I refer madf to a site for like-minded individuals.....
tinyurl.com/mjm956
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>HB
There are lots of sites as well for people who need help with complex personal issues : like being unable to view the world through a sane perspective:-)
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In the mid 80s, whilst searching our local scrappies for something, I came across a Marina convertible. It was on top of two other cars and looked a bit too precarious to investigate further.
These were converted by Mumford. it must have been a rarity then, let alone now !
www.fastmarinamagazine.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=267...4
Ted
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a rarity then, let alone now !
And the body must have been a paragon of torsional rigidity too. Not that it would have made much difference with that suspension.
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My dad was forced to drive a 1.8 Marina in the late 70's to drive from Manchester to London. He said it was by far the worst car he has ever driven and didn't dare go past 60 because the handeling was so bad. He said it was far worse than the Ladas we later owned.
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By far the worst car he has ever driven and didn't dare go past 60 because the handling was so bad.
Well, maybe. But it may be unfair to assume that was a typical Marina - the tracking could have been out, the car may have been bent and straightened .. all sorts of reasons.
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I used to be a lorry driver in a previous life - mainly driving Bedford TK's but when I had to drive a few Leylands - the blimming things were a nightmare and I hated the damn things!
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TK's but when I had to drive a few Leylands - the blimming things were a nightmare
You can't be referring to the 'ergomatic' cab shirley, the most up to date driver's paradise of it's time, grown men begging to be given...
Sorry bout that, slipped into a parallel universe then for a mo, alright now though..hic..;)
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>>>You can't be referring to the 'ergomatic' cab shirley<<<
Was it a Leyland Terrier or something Gordon?
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This is a piccie of when I got the sack -
Very droll P...that definately wasn't the 'ergomatic cab'..;)
Good pic though from days when it really was a tough mans job.
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I wonder what the handling properties of such a fully-laden beast were like, I bet it wouldn't take much for the laws of physics to win out....
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I wonder what the handling properties of such a fully-laden beast were like I bet it wouldn't take much for the laws of physics to win out....
Especially when you take into account that it was fitted with "mandraulic" steering and rod brakes.
However they were limited by law to 20 mph in those days. Imagine the queues if that were the case today, all ye who moan about the 56 mph truckers! ;-)
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I was wondering if it had enough clearence to get under the tram/trolleybus wires on the main road?
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Was it a Leyland Terrier or something Gordon?
Nothing so modern i'm afraid, the cab in question was fitted to delightful machines such as the 'badger' and 'buffalo' and 'super comet' etc, time has me unsure about 'lynx'?....me dad told me about them.
ahem..;)
The strange thing is i quite liked how they drove, especially the buffalo, with the right engine of course, dare i say they really were driver's trucks.
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