Think it did, yes.
Massive place with only a small proportion of the site being used. jag line and Freelander line.
Went past a few days ago and the place is full to bursting with Freelanders. Some haven't moved in months and are covered in quite a thick layer of dust.
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Although we have nostalgia for both Jaguar and Landrover unfortuneatly the rest of the world doesnt and prefers Mercs/BMWs/Toyatas and Shoguns I personally think both marks are doomed.
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How do they arrive at 20% when the engine,gearbox,brakes suspension(front),subframes,all electrics and floorpan are Mondeo and even the seat frames and many more unseen parts its more like 80% in reality.Like I have said before gorgous looking car in estate form but nobody in large numbers want them dealers don't want them they book lees than the equivelant year Mondeo insurance companies load them(how can it be 20% more to insure a 2.0d than 220 merc coupe petrol)
even the gullable yanks wouldn't buy it were a bit quirky in the UK thats what makes us likable different.
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Never been an X-Type fan.
To introduce a small premium badged model with standard, expensive+fuel drinking+performance sapping 4wd was crazy.
Who in their right mind would think that 4 wheel drive is a benefit for most people all of the time!!!
Dont think the styling works on a car that size. Looks all hunched up a the rear.
No wonder its being canned.
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In fact most that are sold are two wheel drive there are very few 4 wheel drives about.
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>>Who in their right mind would think that 4 wheel drive is a benefit for most people all of the time!!!
I can't comment on the system in the X-type but to answer your question, ask any Subaru owner.
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I'm amazed at how much venon the X Type seems to attract. I've got one and had a few problems with it (mostly down the the dealership not doing their job properly) but I choose the car based on looks/performance etc. If the dealer hadn't made such a b-lls up of simple jobs I would probably have kept it.
Calling the car a heap is just risible and is based on pretty flimsy evidence. As for the Mondeo references, they became old the day after the X Type was released. So platform sharing is unheard of anywhere else?
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The demise of the X type is due to both the design, engines and transmission and quality of build. The actions or inactions of the Jag dealerships would also have played a part in making it unpopular.
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and that of course couldn't apply to any other car/manufacturer etc.....
Personally the Jag I've got has the best build quality of any car I've had. I don't class it as a 'luxury' car but more of an alternative to a BMW/Audi/MB of the same class.
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It was a slightly tarted up version of an excellent car. The Mondeo is good to drive and reliable, just falls down on image. It should have been a great idea, but snobbery got in the way.
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I can't comment on the system in the X-type but to answer your question ask any Subaru owner.
Hello Mr Subaru driver, did you buy your WRX for "down the road graphics" and its "Rallying reflected glory" or its 4WD. I know what the truth would be.
Erm, in terms of market segment/aims since when were Subarus a compact luxury cars aiming at the BMW 3 series Merc C class?
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Well, I'm on my 2nd X type (both estates, first one a 2.0D, and now a 3.0V6 Sovereign). Both cars have been excellent. Those built after 2004 had proper build quality and I couldn't give a toss about Mondeo floor plans, electrics etc. The X was a good car for Jaguar, it has now served it's day and I feel sorry for the 300 or so workers whose jobs will be axed.
Pompous one upmanship about what a heap the car was/is is mis-informed and unhelpful. In reality, it has been every bit a competitor for MB, BMW, Audi, it just depends on taste. I have owned 2 BMWs, 2 Audis and a Lexus so feel suitably qualified to speak.
The Jag 4WD system is first rate, and I opted for this as the handling is great and the car is safe and spacious for my family. Higher road tax on the 3.0 is annoying, but not half as much as the sniping that goes on in this forum.
Edited by Cheeky on 16/07/2009 at 17:45
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'In reality, it has been every bit a competitor for MB, BMW, Audi,'.....
How ?. It's sold so few that the only viable option has been to shut down the assembley line.
People have chosen the MB, BMW, Audi a head of it . Had it been any good, there would surely have been a mark 11 in the pipeline to replace it.
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On the contrary, it has sold very well. Merc and BM have had their C Class and 3 series out in various incarnations for far longer than the X type (2001 I think....)It's achilles heels was Jaguar management. They have let it soldier on without a major revamp during all its 8 years.
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How ?. It's sold so few that the only viable option has been to shut down the assembley line.
It sold 350,000 of them over an 8 year period...that's an average of 43,750 every year
that's hardly a 'few' is it?
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it sold 350,000 of them over an 8 year period...that's an average of 43,750 every year
Or assuming they sold the same number each day, that's the equivalent of 120 a day. Not too bad really. If Jaguar itself (not dealers) made £1000 profit per car then that's £350m. I wonder what profit was made on each car.
Edited by rtj70 on 16/07/2009 at 21:45
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I wonder how much was spent on meeting warranty claims ?
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>I wonder how much was spent on meeting warranty claims ?
You're the one trying to convince us that the X-Type is a bad vehicle and you have no idea what the warranty claims are?
I'm astonished!
Kevin...
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>but not half as much as the sniping that goes on in this forum.
Some people just love taking a swipe at Jaguar.
They seem to think that any Jag that doesn't out-sell it's German equivalent is a "P poor" car and consequently a failure. Nothing will convince them otherwise.
>It's achilles heels was Jaguar management. They have let it soldier on without a major
>revamp during all its 8 years.
The last few years can't have been easy for Jag management, trying to balance the investment needed to create a totally new brand image while trying to keep the old model lineup going.
I think they've done a damn good job with the new XK, XF and XJ.
If we weren't in recession (which, I've been told, is a global problem that started in America, and the UK economy is better prepared than other countries) I'm sure Jaguar would have a promising future.
Kevin...
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"On the contrary, it has sold very well"
The sales figures are abysmal and the reason is the are considered to be a lemon rightly or wrongly both in the trade and by the general public,the warranty claims have been sky high and wiped out any profit they have made,the main agents in Dresden has sold two this year a lot of the bigger stuff is moving but people will by a new Mondeo sooner than an x type because its a far superior car.Its gone its buried and will go down in history as complete failure these things happen you cannot have a winner every time.
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A good job recently, maybe, but that also shows how much they had to do. The X and the XJ both put off buyers from their launch with their fusty, tweedy styling; the S-type was even worse. The cars Jaguar has launched recently are giving the style an update it should have had ten years ago; the new models have all that lost time to make up for.
I wish them well. After all this time, I'm at last looking at Jaguars and thinking "I'd like one of those." An XB that was as big an advance on the X as the XF is on the S would really have appealed to me. But I suspect the truth is that Jaguar, at its small volumes, can't compete in the low-margin market for smaller cars, and that once the X had failed to conquer the world at the first attempt, it was always going to be a one-off.
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Well, I'll be sorry to see it go, and wish Jaguar as a 'British' name all the best with the new range. I'm sure I'll continue to enjoy the X Type, it certianly has not disappointed me yet. No warranty claims on either of my X types yet thanks Mr X. Those who take a broad shot at styling should remember that the X and outgoing XJ retained the styling William Lyons wanted and that the original XJ was branded the most beautful car in the world in the late 60s. Now, I agree it won't be to everyone's tastes in the 21st century, but at least it isn't a boring cloned euro-box.
Edited by Cheeky on 17/07/2009 at 10:02
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I owned a 53 plate 2.0 SE auto. Only six months old when I bought it. Best car I have owned.
Liked the looks. No rattles or electrical problems. Gutted when I came to sell. The only downside was the depreciation compared to BMW/Audi. Otherwise I was completely happy with mine and I would have gone for another, if I had the dosh. Some tweeks on style to bring it up to date and priced to sell, they could have still have a chance.
Many times on this site we bemoan the wiping out of the "British" motoring industry. Here again we see further job losses to the detriment of our economy. Ownership aside, I still like to think Jaguar as a British car company, and that they should be supported. I would like to think that Jaguar would of taken on board ideas and comments that have come across from owners, posters and other forums and used this to manufacture a car worth buying en masse.
A quality product coupled with support from the buyers might have secured the model and the workforce. Yet again a company supporting British workers is kicked in the teeth by those unwilling to support it.
As someone else said, there are many about, so someone loves them.
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Those who take a broad shot at styling shouldremember that the X and outgoing XJ retained the styling William Lyons wanted and that the original XJ was branded the most beautful car in the world in the late 60s. Now I agree it won't be to everyone's tastes in the 21st century but at least it isn't a boring cloned euro-box.
But the Original XJ was 16 and a half foot long and very low. Big difference to the X-Type in terms of being able to carry off that kind of styling.
I dont get any sense of sniping at the X-Type in this thread.
Just frustration at a car that could of been. Us/we the consumer can spot it, why couldnt Jaguar with that car.
Current range is bang on the money though.
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Surely a significant barrier to X-Type mk2 is not having a platform to build it on. As Ford were looking to sell Jaguar, they were hardly going to make the curent Mondeo platform available.
If Jaguar is to survive and prosper without the fallback of a big parent company to prop it up, it needs to become leaner and profitable. I suspect a small manufacturer can earn more building fewer, more expensive, cars than turning out large numbers of lower-priced models. Seems to work for Koennigseeg (or however you spell it)...
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End of X-Type Jag >>
Is it any wonder? In the Telegraph today:
"By Graham Ruddick
Published: 12:01AM BST 17 Jul 2009
The Business and Enterprise Committee said it was "astounded" that Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) is yet to get an already-approved ?340m (£292m) loan underwritten by the Government and that the strategy towards the industry needs more "urgency and consistency". ....
....
On Wednesday, JLR cut 300 jobs and warned that more cutbacks could be necessary if it cannot agree terms with the Government on underwriting a loan from the EIB. The company cannot access the loan without state backing but the Government is believed to be seeking stringent conditions to underwrite it.
The MPs said: "We cannot discount the industry's complaints about the delays in agreeing support measures, and we are profoundly disappointed that to date not one single penny has been advanced through the scheme. We hope that this will change rapidly." "
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I'd like to see the statistics to back up these warranty claims!
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Still think TATA are pulling a fast one somewhere. The company is cash and asset rich. Why do they need a Government loan?
(Writing with some ignorance of 'big' business)
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Possibly because TATA doesn't want JLR to bring down it's parent. It's not like TATA is a charity, they bought Jag to make money, not throw piles of it in vain like Ford did for Jag and Rover/BMW at LR for years... If it's in trouble, why not a) cut costs and b) ask for government help. Everyone else is at it!
I happen to know a couple of guys who work in different departments at Jag, both talk about some disappointment from TATAs perspective at their investment so far.
With any luck, the new Jags can turn that around.
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>>I happen to know a couple of guys who work in different departments at Jag both >>talk about some disappointment from TATAs perspective at their investment so far.
it's Land Rover that's having the problems at the moment within JLR. Last years figures for JLR are a drop of 28% in sales. Broken down between the two, LR have dropped 35% and Jaguar have gone up 1%
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it's Land Rover that's having the problems at the moment within JLR...
Aye, but it's not quite as simple as just cars sold, it goes deeper than that...
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The company is cash and asset rich. Why do they need a Government loan? >>
AFAIK, the loan is from the EU and was approved 6 months ago, subject to UK plc underwriting some of the risk.
I don't know what the current finances of TATA look like, but I hear that their venture in to EU steel via buying Corus is in trouble (timing of purchase turned out to be at the peak of the boom in demand for steel), and that in India (apart from the huge success of the TATA-Nano), the group has suffered from the damage to its hotel business - both due to teh recession and the terrorist attack on their prime property, The Taj hotel in Mumbai.
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