Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums

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Wed 17 Jun 2009 22:08
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - dovharris
Hi Folks,
My insurance comes up for renewal in early July. Thought I'd shop around to see if I could get a quote cheaper than my renewal quote from Bell insurance, one of the Admiral Group.
Went to moneysupermarket.com, entered all my details including a speeding conviction from June 2006.
Up comes the quotes, most over £100 cheaper than the renewal quote. No suprise there, I hear you say.
I see that one of the cheapest quotes, £100 cheaper, is from Admiral itself - the insurer I'm with for the last 7 years.
I phoned them, asked if they could match the Admiral quote (same group!).
"Yes. No problem. All hunky dory. Just check some of the details" - they have my on-line details from moneysupermarket.com.
"We notice you didn't declare conviction in June 2006. We need to backdate it on our records. You owe us £300!!!"
Can they do this?
Is the amount excessive?
Do they seriously expect me to re-insure with them ever again?
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Wed 17 Jun 2009 22:10
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - Pugugly
You failed to disclose a relevant fact to them - ongoing duty of disclosure from when you signed up the last time.
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Wed 17 Jun 2009 22:21
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - Rattle
I suspect the danger here is if you argue with them they can refuse to insure which means it will be a lot more expensive getting insurance in the future.
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Wed 17 Jun 2009 22:37
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - martint123
Possibly worse than refusing you would be to put a flag on the database that you told fibs when renewing - few insurers would touch you then.
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Wed 17 Jun 2009 23:23
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - runboy
Questions from a layman then:

If you don't pay, I presume they will say you are not covered for that period - if you've had no accident then so what? (although if someone turns up 6/12 months down the line saying you hit them a few months back where do you stand?).

Equally, if they say you were not insured can you ask for a refund of all those lower premiums you hyave paid - they take no risk so why should you pay?

Would they inform the police?

Just some rambles after a pint or two.

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Wed 17 Jun 2009 23:34
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - rtj70
Questions to answer:

- Was there speeding conviction in 2006? Yes.
- Were the insurance aware? No.

They are the facts is seems. I think they are in their right to ask for money. And you have little choice apart from haggling (maybe) on price. Failure to pay may end up with them doing to equivalent of flagging you as "insurance refused" and then you will have a problem finding insurance.

P.S. If there was a speeding ticket in 2006 should they have known? Did you tell them and their mistake?

Edited by rtj70 on 17/06/2009 at 23:37

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Wed 17 Jun 2009 23:36
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - cuthbert
I think you may have missed one point in this in that you will need to provide NCD for the new company if you withhold the payment they could simply refuse to provide you with the proof of NCD for your new company meaning you will not get the NCD you are entitled to and which in the long run will cost you more than the extra they are requesting
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Thu 18 Jun 2009 00:01
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - Fullchat
There was a time when changing insurance companies required proof of NCB ie your renewal notice. Despite changing insurers on 3 vehicles over many years all seem happy with a verbal declaration. I am sure their Big Brother computers would disprove that claim.

Edited by Fullchat on 18/06/2009 at 00:02

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Thu 18 Jun 2009 00:44
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - bathtub tom
dovharris.

A frequent question on insurance prposals is:
Have you ever been refused insurance?

I hate to think what a positive response would entail.

Edited by bathtub tom on 18/06/2009 at 00:45

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Thu 18 Jun 2009 00:55
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - rtj70
Can they do this? - Yes
Is the amount excessive? - Probably not
Do they seriously expect me to re-insure with them ever again - Or anyone else :-)

If the OP had a conviction for speeding and did not inform their insurer then sorry they have to deal with it. Moving to a new insurer suddenly got more costly and complicated,

If the OP had told their insurer then that is different and the insurer is in the wrong.

PS It seems the OP did not declare this 3 years ago. For the next two weeks he might not be insured if he does not pay.

Edited by rtj70 on 18/06/2009 at 00:59

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Thu 18 Jun 2009 01:00
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - jbif
If the OP had told their insurer then that is different and the insurer is in the wrong >>


Let us hope that the OP does come back to the thread and gives the answers.

Or is it going to be a case of yet another new member who poses an intriguing question then disappears without any further participation in the discussion?

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Thu 18 Jun 2009 01:13
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - rtj70
Or is it going to be a case of yet another new member who poses an intriguing question
then disappears without any further participation in the discussion?


There are existing long time returning members like that!
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Thu 18 Jun 2009 08:17
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - loonykev
Although I am a lifelong Atheist, I constantly remind myself of this little gem:

God grant me the serenity to accept the things that I cannot change,
The courage to change the things that I can change,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

The last line of that applies to this case.

Discretion is the better part of valour, too, possibly.

I wish dovharris good luck anyway, insurers aren't the nicest of people. :)
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Thu 18 Jun 2009 08:27
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - gmac
"We notice you didn't declare conviction in June 2006. We need to backdate it on
our records. You owe us £300!!!"
Can they do this?
Is the amount excessive?


Is it excessive ? Depends on how many points you have on your licence ?
If they are the only points you have then yes, £300 for three years would, IMO, be execessive but suspect there may be an element of fine in there too.
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Thu 18 Jun 2009 08:37
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - ifithelps
...Went to moneysupermarket.com, entered all my details including a speeding conviction from June 2006...

Can't think the OP has much of a problem here, he(?) has been honest with his new proposal by declaring his conviction.

All he needs to do is accept one of the new quotes.

Can't think the new insurer will be terribly interested about whether or not he declared a conviction three years ago to the last lot that they know about anyway.

Edited by ifithelps on 18/06/2009 at 08:38

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Thu 18 Jun 2009 09:06
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - Cliff Pope
Have I got this right - you did declare the conviction when you went on-line, and still you got a quote £100 less than your current one with the same insurer, even without any conviction loading?
That suggests their calculation of the backdated premium is flawed - they seem to charge less for people with convictions!

Edited by Cliff Pope on 18/06/2009 at 09:06

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Thu 18 Jun 2009 09:25
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - b308
Perhaps not... higher risk for the first year after the speeding, then gradually reducing?

I suspect the answer to the question of whether they can claim back the £300 will be somewhere in the small print of the policy, but that would be the OP that would have to look it up, I tend to think there would be some sort of "fine" for non disclosure in there as well...

It sounds all well and good to just go elsewhere and tell them to s***f the £300, but if they do get ratty and put a marker on then I suspect the premiums could be a lot higher if the OP managed to get someone to quote...

Edited by b308 on 18/06/2009 at 09:29

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Thu 18 Jun 2009 09:31
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - Altea Ego
His risk rating will be much higher now. Now known to have withheld details from his insurance company.
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Thu 18 Jun 2009 11:29
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - cuthbert
To put it bluntly I hope I do not meet him on the road !! It is a fact that because of a non disclosure of a fact that would effect his motor insurance premium they would refuse to pay out if he had an accident !!

Insurance companies do not need an excuse to refuse to pay out !! I do not think people realize that just making a small alteration to there vehicle and not informing your insurance company can invalidate there motor insurance( different alloys -change in speed rating of tyres-chipping of the engine)

I know I may be a bit of a kill joy but with insurance its best to take no chance
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Thu 18 Jun 2009 11:45
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - pmh2
>>>To put it bluntly I hope I do not meet him on the road !! It is a fact that because of a non disclosure of a fact that would effect his motor insurance premium they would refuse to pay out if he had an accident !!<<<

Absolutely not true. The insurers will meet the 3rd party liabilities - even if it turns out that he is a blind drunk, drug crazed , 16 year old psychopath ! They may however attempt to recover costs from him.


p
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Thu 18 Jun 2009 12:37
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - cuthbert
pmh2 can you state how you have come to that conclusion ??

Are you getting confused with referring your claim to the Motor Insurers Bureau !!

You cannot second guess what attitude our decision a insurance company will take it is really all down to the loss adjusters at that particular insurance company!!

Edited by cuthbert on 18/06/2009 at 12:38

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Thu 18 Jun 2009 12:51
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - gmac
It's a legal requirement of UK insurance to cover 3rd parties.
"This level of cover ensures that compensation is available in respect of injury to other people (including your passengers) or damage to other peoples' property resulting from an accident caused by you. It doesn't cover any costs incurred by you as the result of an accident."

direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Motorinsurance/DG_067630
tinyurl.com/mqfvpj
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Thu 18 Jun 2009 13:09
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - cuthbert
But that is the point!! if the policyholder has not disclosed all the material facts which would allow a insurance company to calculate the correct premium they could or would say the policy is not in force because the terms and conditions as stated on the original proposal had been followed!! So no road traffic act insurance .

Another misconception is that you are allowed to drive another vehicle road traffic act on your own motor insurance !! this used to be the case but has now been removed from many motor insurance policies there are some who still do but it but is just restricted to the policyholder only


Insurance companies first duty is to its shareholders not its policyholders

Edited by cuthbert on 18/06/2009 at 13:12

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Thu 18 Jun 2009 13:18
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - daveyjp
I know someone who had an accident and on investigation it was found out the car had undeclared modifications. It didn't void the insurance and they could still claim for the damage to their car and the damage to the farmer's wall was also covered.

But.

The excess doubled and there was a backdated premium to pay, so whilst not all facts were not revealed when getting the quote it didn't automatically void the insurance.
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Thu 18 Jun 2009 13:25
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - cuthbert
Yes !! it is really down to each individual insurance company and loss adjuster how they handle each individual claim !!some would take that route others may not??
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Sat 11 Jul 2009 13:37
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - dovharris
Dear all,
Many thanks for all your responses on this matter.
In the cold light of day (about 2 days later, once I'd calmed down), I decided that the insurance company has not acted unreasonably. Ok, £380 (the final backdated amount) is a lot of money. I still think it's too much. But I don't have a leg to stand on in not paying. I did ask for them to reduce it (...good customer, loyalty, blah blah) but they wouldn't budge.
So in the end I renewed with the same company!! And of course paid the backdated premium.
Once again, thanks for your comments - all helped me come to terms with the matter.
Expensive thing, a conviction.
All the best, Dave
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Sat 11 Jul 2009 14:02
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - David Horn
Any young driver trying to find insurance will come up across companies who decline to insure them. Does this count as "insurance refused"?
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Sat 11 Jul 2009 15:17
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - oldnotbold
They don't decline to insure, they decline to quote, which is not the same thing. Some just quote £huge, instead, which has the same effect.
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Sun 12 Jul 2009 12:00
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - Blue {P}
Dovharris - Thanks for coming back with the update, many people never bother and it always leaves you wondering what ended up happening!

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Thu 16 Jul 2009 15:14
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - jessikat
Dear dovharris,

You are not alone! The same thing has just happened to me. I have just called my insurance company to cancel my policy as I have found a cheaper policy elsewhere, and as they do, they wanted to check my details and see if they could compete with the new quote I had received. They asked me a few questions and then asked if I had any speeding convictions, to which I responded, 'yes, one received in Oct 2006' and I was thinking why are they asking me questions they should already have the answers to. Anyhow, it transpires that they have no record of me telling them and I now have to pay £200.

I am so annoyed with myself as my actions weren't deliberate and although I rang them in January 2007 to discuss my policy there is no evidence to suggest I informed them of the fine.

I am very annoyed, but comforted that someone else has been in this situation too!
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Fri 4 Oct 2013 19:14
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - ScrewYouAdmiral

I've just had an almost identical experience to this.

Two and a half years ago I had a chip in my windscreen. This was covered by my premium with Admiral without any impact on my NCB. I contacted Admiral informing them of the chip and they sent a guy out who fixed it.

Not long after I had a guy drive into the back of me. It was a slow collision and there was no dammage either end but the guy was extremely aggressive and confruntational. Armed with a couple of whitnesses on my side I decided it would be best to contact Admiral and inform them that a man has gently gone into the back of me which resulted in no dammage, but due to his attitude I am aware he may try and claim against me (despite it being his fault). When I spoke to the people at Admiral they said that's fine, providing he doesn't claim in the next 6 months, it will be whiped from the system.

Last week (A couple of weeks before my insurance, still with Admiral, is up for renual), I get an email stating I owe them £360 due to an unreported claim.

I phone up and speak to a rather rude individual who informs me that it is because I never informed Admiral of my window repair in 2011. [This is despite the fact that the window wouldn't have been repaired if I hadn't contacted Admiral in the first place]. The woman says she can't help me but gets another department to call me back the next day.

This person is considerably friendlier and explains that they have made a mistake, It isn't £360, it's £307. They had innitially quoted for a crash (The man going into the back of me), and the windscreen, but have now realised that they shouldn't have charged me for the windscreen.

She proceeded to explain that I am being charged the £307 for not including the "crash" (Which I had informed them about), in my renuals since (Despite the fact that I had informed them at the time and that they told me it would be removed after 6 months!).

Am I really in the wrong here or is it possible I can win this?

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Fri 4 Oct 2013 19:31
Backdated Conviction and Insurance Premiums - brum

All calls to insurance companies are recorded. Tell them to check their tapes, and your file which should have notes of your past conversations. Windscreen replacement companies automatically contact insurers to claim their money.

If what you say is true then you have declared everything as required. Put it in writing and if they wont budge, ask why and seek help from the Ombudsman or the small claims court.

Beware, insurance companies have the power to blot your record.....

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