thanks dvd
will read it thoroughly tonight,yes i knew it was for foreign drivers as they cant now feign no english with a dangerous vehicle and slip back across our open borders
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I will be more than happy to see foreign lorry drivers get their comeuppance but I want this done by the Police of this country, just the same as I want motorists to be dealt with by the Police.
Giving VOSA the power to stop vehicles and issue fines is a step to far. Our roads should be policed by officers of the law, not glorified penalty ticket issuers who are neither one thing or the other. How long before those Highway Patrol vehicles are issuing fines ?
Appointing little groups to issue penalty notices and fines has become a growth industry in this country, from Litter Wardens to Ticket Inspectors, fines and penalties are being handed out all over the place.
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Mr X, you really need to take a step back. VOSA employ highly skilled and knowledgeable people, who have forgotten far more about HGVs than I'll ever know. Your description of them as 'glorified penalty ticket issuers' is just frankly insulting.
I took part in a HGV operation last week. We pulled over a dozen foreign HGVs into their depot. Nine out of twelve had faults (some very serious). The mechanics know every nut and bolt of a HGV and spotted the faults quickly. We're not tied up and they do all the paperwork.
They make a significant contribution to safety on the motorways (and if you've ever seen a wheel come off a HGV or one lose it's brakes, then you won't have any argument)
You're rants are to be expected, but please at least try to have some factual basis behind them, rather than uniformed prejudice.
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I'll quite happily do the stopping and let the VOSA Rotwiellers do their job. Their knowledge of heavies, drivers hours etc far surpasses most Roads Policing Officers.
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Midlife and fullchat - suckered in again boys!!
I'll have a bet with you - you can't keep out when he's ranting.....
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Always up for a challenge :-)
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I'll quite happily do the stopping and let the VOSA Rottweillers do their job. Their knowledge of heavies drivers hours etc far surpasses most Roads Policing Officers.
Having spent many hours recently commuting up the M5/M4/A40/M25 etc etc. I wish that the Highways Agency lot would learn to 'drive' their Mitsubishi sho(off)guns. Are VOSA better than this. No lights in torrential rain. Speeding in torrential rain. VOSA Rottweillers here in Devon not knowing about Digital Tachos.
I am well aware that I sometimes have quite acerbic views, but I am heading towards the opinion that some of you/us/we may want to cut Mr. X a bit of slack. It is not all row locks he speaks and I also know he is not very transparent, but hey, it is not a legal requirement.
I am not going to dwell forever on this, but as a Fifty something reasonably worldly wise person of integrity who had a Father for a Copper, had to play the (W) man, (now not sociably acceptable), but I never knew a (B) man who was offended and I have friends and associates in that group and great they are too. I think Mr. X has a valid point. We have to pay for the service we want and like the hite that is rising now about the MP's etc this country ain't going to stand for much more. Let's remove the cost of the Highways Agency and all of the other 'law' agencies and stick that money in to the POLICE FORCE and let them do the job, unencumbered, by piffling paperwork and the politically correct carp that has got us into this all enveloping mire that is suffocating us apace. Let them do the job they were formed to do all those years ago. Yes change things that need changing/modifying/altering etc etc etc, but NOT change for the sake of ruddy change AND weed out bent Coppers and deal with them accordingly.
If we don't soon "get a grip in this Country" then we may as well, bend over and kiss our backsides GOODBYE.
Rant (temporarily) over..........................Grrrrrrrr..MD
P.S. And if Mr. X needs berating, berate him, but NOT every time he appears, cos it is becoming like the School bully.
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I think some clarification is needed here so let me do it as a man of the street,neither a waggon driver or anything to do with the law
vosa now have powers to stop vehicles they believe are dangerous
they dont need a policeman to stop the vehicles
they are interested in commercial vehicles not cars
they know their job
they now have the power to enforce fines and points
sorry but unless they abuse these powers then in the bigger picture im afraid to say they have my full backing
and let the few police we have police
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but NOT every time he appearscos it is becoming like the School bully.
Well said MD, i too have mentioned this before.
I suppose we all have our pet hates and odd views, i know i do (and no doubt annoy many) but i seem to be cut a fair bit of slack.
I for one am glad to see the VOSA lads out and about, as said they know their stuff and hopefully with their new powers Johnny Foreigner won't be laughing quite so much when they catch him bending every rule in the book.
Tell the truth they put the wind up me when they pass slowly by, my company runs a good ship but we all know if you look hard enough you can find something..;)
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Well said Midlife, not only are they experienced engineers, they are absolutely neutral about the vehicle being examined. All they are interested in is vehicle roadworthiness, and If they find a vehicle to be defective and issue a GV9 or fixed penalty, you can bet your life that the fault compromises vehicle safety.
They really are a world away from the average garage tester.
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Martin - are you sure the Mitsubishi drivers aren't the Highways Agency 'Traffic Officers'? Not the same as VOSA.
But yes, I agree with Mr X that there is bound to be some confusion amongst the public about who can enforce what, and in what circumstances. To have one body (Police) would be clearer but when you start taking certain officers and training them in specialist areas, that in itself brings further difficulties. I see a distinct difference between VOSA with their specialisms and HATO's (Highways Agency Traffic Officers). I welcome VOSA's ability to deal positively with foreign HGV's flouting the law. At least now there is a realistic mechanism for dealing with them.
As for bullying Mr X, if you go back through recent threads he does appear to have made a return with with some less, er, challenging views. Until recently! To respond by suggesting that a viewpoint is ill-informed or unvalidated is not, in my humble opinion, bullying, especially when the responder gives facts.
respectfully,
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All point taken on board, but I loathe 'agencies' with new recruits who 'appear' to be no more than Jobsworths in SOME areas.
Today in our Industry City and Guilds is not recognised, but an NVQ is. Would some Martian please explain. My blooming head hurts.
MD
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VOSA are making life unbearable for a mate of mine who runs a gas bottling business. He can't afford brand new shiny trucks as he battles to keep the business going but those that he does have, he and his family maintain above and beyond the call of duty. Thats not good enough for VOSA though. They can't bear to see one of his vehicles complete a run with out having it over. Number of prohibitions or faults found in last 3 years - NIL. Number of pulls for 3 trucks, around about 30 a year.
They were in his office the other day on a surprise visit to look at his tacho discs. As I understand it, they have to be kept the registered offices for the business. The office they visited is not the Registered one but a satellite depot.
Their mistake but they still carried on as if it wasn't. If it had been my business and they had spoken to me like that, they'd have gone to A&E and I'd have gone to court.
Post all the ' VOSA men saved my life " stories you like but from what I've heard, they are rude, arrogant bullies.
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Not been on receiving end of VOSA heavy-handedness, but it does sound a bit like that famous paramilitary force the TV License Police. In which case I feel your pain.
The letter of the law is not always the problem; we all want roadworthy vehicles etc. It's the way it is enforced.
The only reason UK unemployment isn't even higher is that 'agancies' get created at the drop of a statute book, which then it seems have carte blanch to recruit and train such prats in hats who work to a compliance manual and not to common sense....
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prats in hats
Oh my goodness . I wished I'd thought of that. It will be in the next rhyme of mine without fail.
Acerbic is us .co. whatever you like! MD
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 18/05/2009 at 22:38
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Number of pulls for 3 trucks around about 30 a year.
That can happen and of course it will depend on their routes. Where suitable stopping places are for certain vehicles. There are so many variables that your comments do not hold water. Colleagues of mine have 'created' fault sheets, with suitable 'repairs' to make sure 'something' is seen to be done and they are good operators too.
From my experience of wheels flying across motorways and tarpaulins draped across cars etc. Some rowlocking enforcement is welcomed, but I would prefer it to be the Police and not an 'Agency', but like all other 'enforcement' I would wish it to be meaningful and not box ticking.
As for your comment about A&E I withdraw my previous supportive comments and you are now consigned to the P R A * * box.
MD
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'From my experience of wheels flying across motorways and tarpaulins draped across cars etc. Some rowlocking enforcement is welcomed, '... not a problem and welcomed but it would appear that not enough controls exist to ensure that individual business's don't come under excessive scrutiny. Surely it is better to save that level of attention for those that demonstrate that they don't follow the regulations closely enough ?
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By the way, the bullying refereed to is fast becoming a trade mark of this forum. I have seen a few other posters treated in a the same way . It's not pleasant but it would appear to be acceptable.
The VOSA incident I witnessed with the gas bottle place quite clearly fell under the ' bully " definition in my view. Why should they hound the firm..... I could suggest that they possess the
'every ones guilty of something " attitude and that they feel if they keep digging, something will emerge so that they can proclaim' told you so ".
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your friend has the right to complain to vosa hq if he feels he is being harrased
or his mp
as for bullying i think it depends on ones outlook,i have strong views too which are often wrong in others eyes, this is good as its like a good debate from when i was at school ,unfortunately i too tried to see your view but you even stuck the knife in me so its a et u brutus situation in my opinion
sorry
Edited by bell boy on 18/05/2009 at 22:47
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According to another motoring forum I have just visited, VOSA do have the power to stop cars.
Any one on here have the definitive answer?
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i will ask on thursday as i cant find the definative answer
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So not agreeing with you and giving some facts is bullying??
You quite nastily slur VOSA, who do a marvellous job and when the good things they do is pointed out, you claim to be bullied.
We'll shut up then and leave you to it.
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I did so based on the evidence of my own ears...
I wouldn't talk to a dog the way the VOSA bloke spoke to my friend, a bloke in his late 50's, not a young kid. The VOSA bloke must have been about 20 years younger than him.
As people on here like to point out frequently, manners cost nothing. That not apply to CIVIL SERVANTS then ?
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The Police Reform Act 2002 allows Chief Constables to accredit VOSA staff with the power to stop motor vehicles.
Para 8 of Schedule 5 (PRA 2002) gives the accredited person the power of a constable to stop a vehicle. Also s67(9) Road Traffic Act makes it an offence not to comply with a requirement of section 67. Under s.67(3) there is a requirement to stop for a test if it is a constable in uniform who orders the vehicle to stop. The accredited person will be exercising that power, so anyone who refused to stop would be failing to comply with a requirement under s.67.
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So my assumption that VOSA will be able to flag down any motor vehicle and conduct a complete road side examination was correct.
They don't even need a reasonable cause like the police do, they can just choose vehicles at random.
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So my assumption that VOSA will be able to flag down any motor vehicle and....
SQ
Part of me agrees that 'The powers that be' go for the easy option and the soft target in a variety of areas. I.E. HMRC. I could probably name 25 scum bags who are diddling the system, but that for HMRC would mean effort to deal with same and if said scum bag isn't a property owner it is unlikely that they will be pursued. Me however send in a PAYE payment late and all hell breaks loose. Clean sheet since 1977 don't count my boy. You are GUILTY and you WILL pay. End of.
Grr..MD
{Martin, I'm sure it's been mentioned to you before - please snip and summarise when quoting messages you're replying to}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 19/05/2009 at 11:13
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Mr X - The Police do not need reasonable cause to stop a vehicle. No reason whatsoever is required but having no reason whatsoever doesn't make for an easy start to the conversation!
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