Ok, I'll give you a scenario...
We have a stretch or road near us linking two towns, there is a Crematorium in one of the towns and every so often a hearse goes along the road to the Crematorium from the other town...
Its a NSR stretch of road, about 4 miles long with plenty of decent, safe, overtaking stretches... the hearse goes along at about 35mph...
The reason I ask was that recently I was driving down the road and came across a queue behind it and despite very little traffic coming the other way no-one would pass it... I overtook several cars in the queue but didn't reach the hearse - just to clarify, only the car right behind it was actually following the hearse to its final destination...
So would you overtake it if it had a coffin on board?
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Any reason why you shouldn't? (he said, rather tentatively!!)
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Yeah why not, you're a long time dead
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Single hearse and no cortège? Yes.
On a single carriageway, cortège with mourners behind the hearse?
How could you be so disrespectful? Mind you, todays ignorant society - nothing surprises me anymore.
Dual carriageway yes I would make progress though.
Barging through a funeral procession is positively a big no in not only a drivers but is too a personal etiquette issue.
I live not far from the crematorium and two main cemeteries; so I am presented with this scenario most days of the week. 11am and 2pm seem to be the times that get chosen the most for some reason?
Respect, as in ?tipping your hat? and giving way to all in the procession following the hearse, carrying those on their final journey, as they pass you to be laid to rest, is ?the done thing? in my area.
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Respect as in ?tipping your hat? and giving way to all in the procession following the hearse carrying those on their final journey as they pass you to be laid to rest is ?the done thing? in my area.
Top Man.
MD
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Not unless it was on a motorway or similar. It's impossible to tell how many cars belong to mourners.
However, I have overtaken (on a noisy smelly old motorbike) a string of lots of cars following a hearse - I didn't realise until I got near the head of the convoy. This was, in my opinion, very unfortunate.
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Would you overtake a Hearse?
NO.
Respect....MD
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i never would
i had to go down basildon last year to my aunties funeral,we had to go to the crematorium which is about 4 miles away and partly used the a127? anyway there were 15 cars in our procession and we all had black flags on the roof to show we were together,ive got to say the attitude of some car drivers pushing in appalled me
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If the hearse were on a bypass, would it be more appropriate to undertake it?
I'll get me coat.
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If the hearse were on a bypass would it be more appropriate to undertake it? I'll get me coat.
If I had posted that when YOU are in a mood that would have got chopped methinks.
MD
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Probably not, but I 've been overtaken by one, on the M4 and I was doing 75!
Most hearses have quite powerful engines and it must be tempting for the drivers sometimes to give them their head. Perhaps I should insert an extra clause in my will - 'I wish for the hearse to get a move on, as I did in life....'
As long as it's driven safely there's no disrespect.
I dn't know if there are any diesel hearses but heaven help us if one has a DPF.
Edited by Avant on 13/05/2009 at 20:14
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We have a very similar scenario in that the crematorium is about three-quarters of a mile from the town's outskirts and also serves a wide area beyond that.
Unless it is absolutely vital, I never overtake; in the majority of cases the funeral procession travels at a reasonable speed, especially out of residential areas.
Edited by Stuartli on 13/05/2009 at 20:17
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The attitude of some car drivers pushing in appalled me
Education education education. The very same people that wear their football shirts to a restaurant on a Saturday night!
MD
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I once followed a procession with a man walking in front with a rolled black umbrella.
It was in a part of south London where if you upset the wrong people, you could end up riding in the back of a hearse, so no one tried to barge past.
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My brother once bought a second hand Vauxhall Carlton estate from an undertakers. It wasn't a hearse as such but had been used for "collections" It had an extra long roller blind type loadspace cover which stretched from the back of the front seats to the tailgate. It had been very well looked after. He says it didn't bother him to know what it had been before but I'm not sure I would like to have driven it late at night on a lonely road.
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So where is the protocol that says we don't overtake the funeral cortege? Where or when does it originate? Or is it simply an assumption that to do so is disrespectful? What is the difference between a motorway and any other road?
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...My brother once bought a second hand Vauxhall Carlton estate from an undertakers....
I used to know an undertaker who used an Austin Maxi to shuttle coffins around.
He had rails put at an angle across the loadbay which continued onto the back of the back seat.
When the seats were folded, the coffin slid in a treat.
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Why not just bury them in the Maxi :-P
Yes sorry I know they are utterly faultless cars.
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Saw a funeral cortege this week. Hearse, one limousine and then a line of cars all sporting black flags attached to the windows. Very effective I thought. You know exectly who is in the cortege and you don't offend anyone by overtaking the wrong cars.
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I would have to be very pressed for time indeed to overtake a cortege.
On the whole I am fairly anti-hat (no offence Guv, yours is all right). But when I am on foot and a hearse passes I sometimes wish I had one on to doff. It's the correct thing to do. Without a hat, you're at a loss for the expression of formal respect.
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Do you have a forelock Lud ? They make a good substitute.
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Do you have a forelock
Not much of one these days, alas.
But I must point out that forelock-tugging and hat-doffing are subtly different. In this context, one is aimed at the living and the other at the dead.
No point in unsettling one's rug for a stiff, is there? Honestly HB I thought you were cool...
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Heh heh...Well I do still have a forelock but I can't remember having tugged it at anyone whatever condition they were in. Set my cap occasionally mind......
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I overtook a hearse once. And it had my grandfather in it.
Well I had to get to the crem before he did, didn't I?
Maybe undertakers should go back to using motors like the fabled Daimler Majestic Major - guaranteed 120mph, even with a coffin-carrier.
Wiltshire Police once nicked an undertaker with a Granada hearse for doing 95mph down the A303 slope past Boscombe Down approaching Amesbury.
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95mph down the A303 slope past Boscombe Down approaching Amesbury.
Druid hurrying to catch some solstice or other perhaps...
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In answer to the OP, "As long as there was no body on board..."
Before I get my coat...
The black flags on all mourners' cars are a great idea and should become standard practice. Some sort of flashing or static beacon on the leading hearse/limo (and one on the last car) could also be useful to warn of the approach/presence of a slow moving convoy. If mobile homes, propellers, parts for wind turbines and the like get consideration on the road then surely it's reasonable to provide similar ocurtesy for someone's last journey.
I remember one episode of EastEnders when two of the locals, on seeing a passing hearse, and being bereft of a cap and forelock, tugged at their lapels instead. East End tradition ??
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I would never overtake a hearse - sure the subject in the coffin may not care so much, but the mourners dont need to be made to feel they are a moving roadblock on such a distressing day and as such, id give them all the time they need.
Maybe the 'not overtaking' rule was designed when coffins were still pulled by horses, so as not to startle them? Just a thought.
I cant say im in favour of doing 35 mph on main roads though and I shall make sure any funerals I organise have instructions not to cause such a hold up - my dad wouldnt like it so his funeral will reflect that! ( sorry morbid talk but dad had a heart attack so his mortality is a current affair in my family! )
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I once managed to get myself involved in some road rage involving a funeral cortege, which obviously I really rather I hadn't.
I too live near a crematorium and often see funeral processions, inc horse drawn ones.
I was in a petrol station filling up, when one came through the attached roundabout and as it was a horse drawn one, it was quite slow. When I came out onto the roundabout (with the right of way) i had to wait for the cortege to join the roundabout from my nearside (which really wasn't a problem).
In the large queue of traffic behind, there were numerous cars with obvious mourners in and then eventually builders vans, an earth moving lorry and other bits and bobs that really didn't look like part of a funeral.
As I wasn't intending on sitting there and letting the whole queue out regardless of whether they were in the procession...i chose a gap at what I thought was the back of the mourners queue..between a car and a builders van and started pulling gently forward.
Turned out the van had two neanderthal men in it, who were in the cortege, having lost grandpa. They both (brothers) then felt the need to get out of the van, try to open my drivers door (which was locked as the car does it automatically) and then shout that i'd better open my f word door, otherwise they were going to rip my f word head off and do something nasty down the hole it would leave...all whilst their sister who had been in another vehicle was bawling her eyes out trying to prevent them indulging in gratuitous violence....what a couple of chav charmers. I bet grandpa was proud of them.
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being bereft of a cap and forelock tugged at their lapels instead. East End tradition ??
For some reason that has given me a mental picture of frustrated thesps unhappy with their minor roles, grabbing an opportunity to break into a touch of Riverdance, or worse still, a reprise of that dreadful Dick Van Dyke mockney chimney sweep dance......
Awfully difficult to get back round to the thread from here though or even motoring in general so I think I'll call it a night now........Sorry all.
;-)
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Do bobbies still salute ? we used to in the 60s. I live in the 'dead' centre of our great city and see funerals daily. Never seen black flags around here. Lots of horse drawn hearses, Co-op here has 3, black white and silver with horses to match. I believe they also have the vintage Austin hearse from 'In loving memory' with Thora Hurd but I've never seen it out.
You certainly wouldn't pass a horse drawn but it might be fun to do so and give them a respectful blast of the horn to let the horses know you are there...hehe.
I'll get me coat as well !
Ted
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their own fault they were caught dead to rights..........obviously the faster then go the more then get done i bet the undertakers made a real killing (business wise that is)
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Alternative viewpoint - how would you feel about a hearse shooting past you at over the ton? Recent episode of Traffic Cops: (4'50" onwards)
tinyurl.com/r2jr5w
I remember years ago hearing tenth or eleventh-hand of a superb one liner from a traffic cop and a speeding hearse driver. After the usual pleasantries of "Are you the registered keeper of this vehicle, Sir?" Came the winning line
"Going at a fair old lick back there, weren't we, Sir? Business a bit ... slack, is it?"
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>>>Without a hat, you're at a loss for the expression of formal respect. <<<
No you are not! Quite simply, stand to attention and bow your head as the hearse passes.
I have been doing this since I saw my headmaster doing it when I was a lad.
I even do it reguarly when hearses pass me when I am driving in the opposite direction...making sure to look over the top of my glasses as I do so.
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Single lane NO, two or three Yes
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Interesting...
Several of you say yes, but only on a dual carriageway - I can't see any difference between a one/two/three lane scenario - as long as you overtake in one move (which was possible on this ocassion btw) I can't see any difference between overtaking on a dual carriageway and a single lane road.
I like the idea of the flags.
I have to admit that I also had some reluctance, its probably an age/upbringing thing, but at the end of the day we would overtake every other vehicle moving this slow, so why should a hearse be any different, especially considering the distance it has to travel to the Crem?
Edited by b308 on 14/05/2009 at 08:40
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Single lane NO two or three Yes
I agree.
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Even if you can overtake in one move?
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I was in Waterford a few years ago and was impressed that when a funeral courtege passed all the pedestrians on a busy shopping pavement stopped and doffed their hats as it passed.
Not seen in England for 50 years.
I think overtaking a funeral procession would be all right as long as done in one go, and not needing massive speed. What is appalling is cutting in and out of the mourners.
My father related once a funeral of a work colleague. A slow, dilapidated scrap lorry got mixed up in the procession, going even more slowly than the hearse. The mourners got separated, some following the hearse, some stuck miles behind following the scrap lorry.
They all had a good laught - it was exactly the sort of fiasco the chap would have relished.
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I don't see a problem overtaking as long it's safe.
I too live near a crematorium and I don't see what right funeral processions have in crawling along the A259 for miles at 35mph causing a huge tailback. Life stills carries on and I expect my hearse to get a shift on when I die.
When my dad died I struggled to keep up with the hearse as he toed it along the very same A259! My dad would have approved!
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Not as a rule - but if life depended on it in some way, yes. I did inadvertantly once on a dual carriageway when it was all but too late to do anything else once it became apparent what it was.
Apart from the 'respect' issue, there was/is perhaps another more selfish reason not to overtake or go past a funeral cortege: it may seem to the fates that you're trying to reach the same destination before the cortege - and they might just oblige you!
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Agree with V8man. I'd quite like the E-type hearse from Harold & Maude :)
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'Entire funeral cortege "exceeded 100mph in 50 limit", police allege'
A fitting send-off for an enthusiast.
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I've been trying to say this for a day now. Why doesn't this site like me any more?
Yes, I did once. And it had my grandfather in it.
Well, I had to get to the crem before he did.
Maybe undertakers should go back to the great days of the Daimler Majestic Major - guaranteed 120mph, even with coffin carrier coachwork (notice I avoided the obvious word...)
Wiltshire police once nicked a hearse, a Granada I think, doing 95mph down the slope on the A303 past Boscombe Down, coming into Amesbury.
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Deja vu? ;>)
Wed 13 May 09 21:33
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Well there you go. I had to wait so long for it to load - at about the fifth attempt - that I logged off in disgust. The advert servers on this site can be a real pain.
I find I can post about twice these days before the site freezes up and allows me to read only. I thought it was something I said...
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I find I can post about twice these days before the site freezes up andallows me to read only. I thought it was something I said... ah well its the french government isnt it, they are checking your servers as i tipe ;-)
for undownloadable material (how is the french presidenties wifes singe-ing going anyway
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She can singe what she likes - she won't be setting me on fire!
I'm sure the French government is watching me - notice I never criticise Renaults or Citroens?
Anyway, I'll be in a foreign country briefly this weekend - the UK. Or it seems like it to me these days...
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Death is a very dull, dreary affair, and my advice to you is to have nothing whatsoever to do with it, said Somerset Maugham. So probably best not to overtake....
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Anyway I'll be in a foreign country briefly this weekend - the UK. Or it seems like it to me these days...
Brilliant Mike H. Just Brilliant.
MD
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www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=30380&...f
Discussed at length here in 2005. Including a contribution from THe Growler.
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The custom of applauding at a funeral seems to have caught on from southern European neighbours. It is initially shocking to the uninitiated, but it is hard to think of another equally simple and noticeable "offering" when given as a gesture of solidarity with bereaved friends and family.
I would like to propose a standardised, purely optional, "salute" of two short pips of the horn when overtaking a hearse in a situation when one has to get past in a hurry; the motoring equivalent of doffing hats or touching forelocks. Two short pips should do the trick, as in 99% of tooting-the-horn situations.
Not the "Dixie" tune from the Dukes of Hazzard, though. And "La Cucaracha" is definitely out.
Possibly "Greensleeves" for a popular local ice cream van driver on his last journey...
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the only trouble is with these things is they start to run away with themsleves don't they
we used to have 1 minute silences for the more noticeable events...that has started to multiply hasn't it.........we'll be up to 15 minute silences eventually
I thought we were known for our reserve in this country?
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>>Including a contribution from THe Growler.
Read 'THe Growlers' profile.
Heck, he had hell of a lifestyle!
Mr Growler - you still in the room?
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SQMr Growler - you still in the room?
Gone to a higher place we think.
He was the best......MD
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 15/05/2009 at 00:51
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I heard from somewhere that in some parts of the USA...probably Beverley Hills...a hearse is referred to as a 'Casket Coach.
Until very recently, overtaking certain funerals in this area could well result in a couple of bullets through your back screen !
However, dying is the last thing I intend to do !
Ted'
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Death is something that comes to all of us if we live long enough.
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I'd forgotten we'd discussed this before - I'm glad to see that I've been consistent!
Yes, Growler died a year or so ago: he must have been a great guy. His posts were usually outspoken or amusing, or both, but never offensive - an example to us all.
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HJ and a few of us met Growler at the Ace Cafe.
We miss his postings.
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HJ and a few of us met Growler at the Ace Cafe. We miss his postings.
I remember the pic's somewhere.
MD
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I remember the pic's somewhere.
Sadly they were in MSN which has now been chopped.
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SQSadly they were in MSN which has now been chopped.
Henry, were you on the left of the pic' looking at it??
MD
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 16/05/2009 at 03:50
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>>Henry, were you on the left of the pic' looking at it??MD
>>
Yes I was.
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SQYes I was.
I've got it right here my Dear.
MD
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 16/05/2009 at 03:50
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Suggestion for another BR meet:
Clasics-on-the-common coming up 29/07/09 :
www.classicsonthecommon.com/main.htm
Lots of pubs. Close to M1 and rail links, about twenty miles north of London?
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Sadly they were in MSN which has now been chopped.
The pictures that were originally in the MSN group got transferred to the new group.
honestjohn.multiply.com/photos
The Ace Cafe ones are here:-
honestjohn.multiply.com/photos/album/9/ACE_Cafe_Ba...4
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