Thanks for that.
I have accidentally gone above 3,000 rpm a couple of times, so I should be ok.
The car dealer was wrong then stating to drive the car normally.
|
just one question
should I vary the speed and not stay at the same speed (most of my commuting is on motorways) ?
|
From what I understand the problem with new engines is that they are "tight" and therefore have more friction which generates heat - too much heat being bad.
Quick bursts above 3,000 rpm will probably do the engine good, just don't drive 50 miles down the motorway at this rpm.
Varying the speed is also good practice so drive normally, but don't hold high revs for extended periods
MVP
|
ok thanks for that.
Within 5 minutes on this forum, I have learnt what has been on my mind for days now.
Thanks again.
|
|
Just drive it normally:don't change the oil prematurely-it will have been filled at the plant with an initial fill oil which is not the same as the service oil.This is to aid the "running-in".
|
do as i do with new diesels and thrash it to within an inch of its valve stem.
always end up being fastest diesel on the fleet :-)
|
tiredeyes, your joking right ?
I know diesel engines are built stronger but the idea of thrashing a brand new car goes against wisdom, that's unless you know something that I don't.
|
goes against wisdom
So much "wisdom" about motor cars is pure myth, much of it propagated and given credibility by motoring publications and journalists when really there's no rigorous research to prove it.
IMO, the advice given in your manual and by your dealer is good - don't run your car in too gently.
|
fair enough.
So these days what happens with new engines, are they 'run in' before they are added to the car (bench ran) or is the production tolerances better ?
I could just picture a thousand engines bench tested in the factory for an hour :-)
|
Engineering tollerances are far finer than before, so less friction = less heat = less stringent running in period.
Against the gentle running in argument, is the need to bed an engine in sufficiently - last year we bought a new boat and the 4- engine required running at maximum revs for 1 minute in 10 for the first few hours (said it in the handbook)
MVP
|
'A car that's run in fast turns into a fast car'.
Some truth in that, it needs varied use, up and down the gearbox and the rev range, short bursts at higher revs.
A and B roads, some dual carriageway and a limiited amount of chugging around time.
Avoid constant speeds and labouring the engine, change up a little later than you usually do.
Glad you're happy with your new car, I reckon the diesel Rio is something of a hidden gem which is often overlooked by buyers.
Edited by ifithelps on 05/03/2009 at 13:19
|
>>are they 'run in' before they are added to the car
No.
Not only the size tolerances, but also the detail of the surface finish of the cylinder bores has improved to the point where the as machined surface provides good sealing, and good oil holding properties, which means that the traditional need for running in is different now to what it was 20 years ago.
A reconditioned engine, however, is much more likely to have its oversized cylinders bored and honed using old technology, and so, running in of these engines in the traditional way is still advisable. New engines, straight off a manufacturer's production line, however, don't need such soft handling.
Older production methods produced machining marks which when magnified looked like a mountain range, and the piston rings would only clip the peaks. Running in allowed the piston rings to flatten these peaks to produce some bearing area, while oil was held in the valleys.
Modern honing methods produce a surface finish which is like the mountain range described above, but very much worn down. So, there is already a large flat bearing area with a smaller number of shallow valleys holding the oil. The gross metal removal of running processes of old simply isn't applicable to these engines.
|
I could just picture a thousand engines bench tested in the factory for an hour
>>
Somehow I don't think the environmentalists would be happy with that concept.
The best way to run any engine in, Diesel or petrol, is to drive it normally (this doesn't apply to boy racers BTW), with the occasional thrash. If it's not thrashed now and again and/or the oil is changed too early, the bores will glaze and the piston rings will stick, causing excessive oil usage in later life.
IMO the best "nearly new" cars to buy are ex-fleet or ex-rentals as they have been run in properly and oil not changed until designated mileage or time.
|
IMO the best "nearly new" cars to buy are ex-fleet or ex-rentals as they have been run in properly and oil not changed until designated mileage or time.
Totally agree. The Vectra I had from a long-term hire fleet ran smoothly, produced excellent fuel economy (above average on owner's forum figures) and felt very quick too.
I've taken this approach when I had a new car as an accident replacement vehicle for a few weeks. Ran it gently when cold, then give it plenty of welly regularly once it was warmed up. Seemed to run lovely after 2000 miles of that.
|
>>tiredeyes, your joking right ?
Probably not - company car = must have fastest but engine longevity is the next owners problem not theirs ;-)
I'd definitley advise running it in as per HJs FAQs and don't worry about giving it some beans every now and again - better than labouring it with too few revs and stressing all the expensive bits. Simmer the engine before switching off after a run and check the oil more often early on as some units drink a bit as they bed in.
|
Good point.
I will keep an eye on the oil (as its a good early indication of things going wrong).
|
|
The running-in instructions in the manual for my company car (which I ended up reading to figure out the how Navigation System works) state only to drive normally and to not exceed 3,500 rpm for the first 2,000 km. As it's a diesel I'm unlikely to exceed 3,500 rpm ever.
|
|
|
Tiredeyes,
sounds like you have a company car.
That's how I would run in a company car if I had such a luxury!!
Edited by doctorchris on 05/03/2009 at 15:22
|
does anyone know (generally speaking) what a car assembly line does in terms of bench testing engines ?
Are engines tested prior to being fitted into a car ?
Is it a case of every tenth assembled engine is bench tested for quality ?
Id imagine that every production engine could not be bench tested.
|
I can't answer your question, diddy but I watched a great programme last night on BBC4 about Ford production at Dagenham in the 60s and 70s.
Engine blocks were crudely dropped out of their moulds just as soon as the metal had solidified.
Cars fired up and driven straight off the production line, I doubt whether any bench testing of those engines took place.
I doubt that any of those cars got more than a cursory look over before they reached the dealers.
Despite this, I remember Fords as being the reliable cars of that era, who knows what BMC and Vauxhall, etc. got up to.
|
Many manufacturers have a semi automated test sequence which the car is put onto at the end of the production line where the car is run on rollers for a while. During this test, the cars electrics and dashboard are checked out.
>>Engine blocks were crudely dropped out of their moulds just as soon as the metal had solidified.
I don't see much wrong in that.
It's good engineering to make parts that can just be assembled and used rather than having to be fussed over and tweaked, and it's one area where Ford are and have been for a long time undisputably and absolutely at the top of their game. Companies at the high cost & low volume end of the market can afford to leave engine blocks for a year for the residual stresses to relieve themselves, but, for mass production that would be madness.
To paraphrase from Sir Stanley Hooker's book which was mentioned on here the other day - when Ford came into Rolls-Royce to help them get production rates up for the war effort, the engineers at Rolls joked that Ford wouldn't be able to reach their tolerances. In fact, it was the other way round! - Ford made parts to a higher tolerance specifically so that they could be assembled without any further fitting or selection. i.e. Ford understood about mass production while Rolls Royce didn't!
|
|
Do keep an eye on oil consumption over the first few thousand miles but do not be concerned if you find it necessary to keep topping up. Three of the diesels I have owned from new all used oil for the first 10K miles and then (after first service) did not need topping up at all.
|
doctorchris, that's partly my basis for the question regarding bench testing.
I also watched the program on BBC four and hence it got me thinking about what actually happens.
Do engines get bench tested before they are put into a car ?
I cant see every single engine getting bench tested before placing into a car but I could believe either random engines tested or 1 in 10 engines tested.
|
Again, Diddy, dunno but would you want your engine run on a bench for the equivalent of a few hundred miles before it went in your car?
I've been buying new cars since 1984 and have never had an engine fault in that time.
The car manufacturers seem to have got engineering right these days and even assembly is very good.
I drive a Fiat Panda Cross with the nicest small Diesel engine you can find and I'm delighted with it.
I've not obsessionally followed the HJ Diesel engine run in procedure, I do a low mileage and it would take forever to reach max. revs. However, at nearly 3,000 miles the engine is sweet and becoming more economical by the day.
|
>>Do engines get bench tested before they are put into a car ?
Not that I've seen, although I haven't been into every single car factory, not by a long chalk. (My first job as an apprentice was at Austin Rover in Cowley)
|
Do engines get bench tested before they are put into a car ? I cant see every single engine getting bench tested before placing into a car but I could believe either random engines tested or 1 in 10 engines tested.
Some years back I visited a number of plants producing truck diesel engines; one European plant ran each engine on a test bed, checking all details of performance in a test typically lasting 30 to 40 minutes.
In contrast, a plant in the USA plugged a new engine into a test bed using quick-fit connectors for fuel, coolant etc, ran it for 2 minutes to check output and unplugged it ready for the next one!
The test systems for car diesels probably vary as widely, but as NC points out, current production processes are intended to minimise the need for the 'running in' regime which used to be recommended for the first x-thousand miles.
|
>>producing truck diesel engines;
Yes, higher value, smaller volume engies do tend to get more attention in the factory - IIRC, Leyland used to run their larger engines like this prior to fitting them into the truck (I'm thinking of engines like the TL11, L12, and TL12)
|
NC
My nominally 140 PS Transit diesel has a sticker on the engine quoting 142 PS and I have been told that this shows the actual as opposed to the nominal output. The obvious conclusion to this is that the engine must have been run (briefly?) up to its maximum rated power before installation in the vehicle.
In terms of running-in vehicles, I have always driven gently for the first 50 miles to allow the tyres to scrub in a bit and then just driven normally: never had any failures that could be attributed to this method.
|
|
The Xtrail manuel states do not rev over 2500rpm for the first 1000miles.
In normal driving that is not possible, nor is HJ method.
I think the key is to drive it gently when possible. You are running in the brakes, gearbox, and tyres, not just the engine.
My Audi burnt half a litre of oil in the first year, on the running in oil.
After that it never used any. So using some oil is not usually a problem.
|
>>>>do as i do with new diesels and thrash it to within an inch of its valve stem.
always end up being fastest diesel on the fleet :-) <<<<<
How very true!!!!
Will you lot stop pussy footing around your brand new deisel engines please!
When we get a bran new lorry ( about £85,000), we drive it as hard as we can, keep it a just a little low on oil and it repays you with being the fastest and most reliable lorry on the fleet.
Remember, the deisel engine was originally designed to be a workhorse, now go out there and work it!
Pat
|
Out of curiosity I asked my gf how she 'ran in' her '07 Passat Tdi, now with 63k on the clock.
She gave me a quizical look and said not to drive it so fast as you would automatically lose your licence, and to continue driving in the same manner for the next 62k miles! Her variable servicing schedule has so far meant services every 30k miles, uses absolutely no oil between services, and is still on her first set of rears. Mimsing is not in her vocabulary.
|
I have had several diesel cars. Some from new, others second hand. The linking factor is that they have all had to work for a living. A thousand miles a week is commonplace. Usually fully laden, out in all weathers. I don't have the time or patience to mollycoddle them. From day one they get used for their intended purpose and driven as the journey requires.
I have always kept them fed and watered as necessary and never miss a service but always use a local indy rather than the dealer network.
My Mondeo estate which has recently been retired to the lighter duties of being my wife's daily commuter car is approaching 160k and has just had it's seventh birthday. It still manages to clock up 250 miles a week. I have banged on about it here before but I think it is relevant to the OP. It has had consumable bits replaced such as tyres, oil, filters and brakes of course but is by and large running on most of it's original equipment. Exhaust, clutch, turbo, suspension, engine etc are all original. It still runs as smoothly as any Ford four pot diesel can and still returns mid forties to the gallon. Not a squeak or rattle. No rust. Still polishes up like new.
Unusual ? Not really. It's predecessors have all managed fine with similar use and abuse. The notable exception being the Espace which was cursed.
My advice is to just drive your car. Use it for it's intended purpose. Keep it properly maintained, don't park it where there is already someone occupying that bit of road and it should go for as long as you want it to. Cars are a lot tougher than many think. Except Espaces of course.......
|
|
I think this kid glove treatment of new cars stems from the days when cars were thrown together by the likes of BMC and British Leyland and todays car use would put them out of their misery pretty rapidly. With present day manufacturing and assembly techniques, mainly robots, the cars are in a different league of quality and with modern lubricants are pretty tough machines. Running in, follow the manufacturers reccomenation. Other than a few Corsa camshafts and Renault turbo failures we dont hear of many engine failures here, these days it would take total neglect or abuse to wreck most engines.
|
I doubt many engines are tested on a bed, before fitting in a vehicle these days, although random samples could be?
At the end of the production line, the engine is usually filled with warmed oil and coolant, so it's first ever start is eased a bit.
My advice for running in, would be, don't stand admiring the new car. Get out and put the first 1000 miles on it as quickly as you can. Don't let it labour, far better to change down a gear or two and let it rev freely. You should easily do 1000 miles in a week, the engine will be better for it.
|
good point.
So far since Monday I have clocked up just over 400 miles in the car.
I am trying to get past the first 600 miles as quick as possible (owners manual states drive varied for the first 600 miles).
The engine's performance still puts a smile on my face especially on the motorway.
Previously in my old car (Astra 1.6l sxi) I had to drop a gear to have some get up and go to overtake.
In this car I just put my foot down (a little) and pull out to overtake.
Very easy drive.
|
|
|
always end up being fastest diesel on the fleet :-)
That's because friction decreases as the engine wears, and you've caused it to wear prematurely. And by doing so you'll probably also end up with the shortest lived engine on the fleet.
Moderation in all things is the way to go.
|
I have to disagree L'escargot.
R reg (1998) (11 years old) mondeo 2.0 td estate.
I ran in for the two years up to 85K.
bought off company i worked for and sold to my sister.
her and her hubby ran for another 8 years with my 3 nephews & neices.
now his brother has the car (£200 i think crossed hands)
and my bro in law put a new exhaust on (first one)
its still on original engine & gearbox. think its had a new clutch 3 years ago
sister did a lot of short journeys (school, tennis, boys brigade, cubs etc etc)
think its up to 160K miles now.
car has been uber reliable.
and those first 2 years were tyre smoking run in time ! yee ha !
but seriously I think diesels have come on leaps and bounds in last 10 years.
yes when i get to 50 i might get more moderate.
so like i say and how so many people say, run it in fast, plenty of action from that rpm needle
make it move like a pinball wizard's flipper !
|
car has been uber reliable.
That's only because it's a Ford!
|
|
|
|
