Guys,
Any idea if young children are allowed on the back of a motorcycle in the UK?
I'm talking playgroup or just at school ages!
Thanks,
David W
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David W
Borrowed this from a motorcycle training web-site.
Pillion Law
Without going through all the road traffic acts, here's a brief synopsis:-
You must hold a full licence for the machine you're riding, wear a safety helmet etc.
Your Bike must be adapted to carry a pillion (a rear seat and passenger footrests).
Your pillion must wear a safety helmet, sit astride the machine facing forward (side-saddle is illegal).
There's no legal age required for riding pillion but he/she must big enough to hold on, sat astride with feet on the foot pegs (so there is a size limit) and able to fully understand the detailed instruction you will surely give.
This is the link if you fancy a look:-
www.motorcycletrainingkent.com
Seems quite a useful site.
Cockle
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David,
When I was a toddler, my parents rode a tandem (pushbike) with me in a sidecar. Couldn't you give that a try instead?
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I used to give my daughter motorbike rides round the garden when she was a toddler, and the safest place for her seemed to be directly in front of me, on the front edge of the seat. It wouldn't be difficult to fit footpegs and something to hold on to in that position, although I've no idea of the legal ramifications (it's OK on pushbikes, though).
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Thanks guys.
It wasn't so much I wanted to use our kids as test dummies, more that I was aware of others doing it and wondered if it was just stupid or against the law as well.
That link of yours Cockle is about as certain as it gets. I think the leg length to footpegs will be the deciding factor. I guess an average 8 year old would pass that "test".
Interesting.
David W
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if it was just stupid
I hate seeing blokes out in full leathers with child pillions with shorts and t shirts.
That said, my father used to take me out on his bike and I loved it. One of my best childhood memories & almost every activity requires some element of risk.
--
Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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>>my father used to take me out on his bike and I loved it. One of my best childhood memories & almost every activity requires some element of risk.
Spot on Toad, same with me. Except I can only view it as the responsibility of each generation to bring the next to adulthood in a reasonable degree of safety and with a reasonable set of standards.
After that it is down to the individual to judge their own risk taking....when they are old enough.
I think taking very small children on the back of motorcycles is exposing them to a high degree of risk. This seems to go against the natural protective nature adults/parents should show towards children in society.
While we've been away having a great holiday a woman has driven the ski boat over her husband, two jet-skiers have crashed, a 2yr old and his grandad have died in a Scottish loch on a small boat outing, a child has died blown out to sea in an inflatable boat and three members of the same family have been killed walking by the road in one of the prettiest Scottish villages.
You're having really great fun and then you die!
David W
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Your post reminded me of what, as a biker, makes me cringe in the Philippines. Dad driving, 1-2 year old sat infront of him on tank (or standing on footboards if scooter. 3-4 year old (maybe two of these, sat directly behind Dad. Then comes Mum, cradling the new-born 10 weeker in her arms and sometimes another in a backpack as well.
All weaving through clouds of smoke between vast semi-trailers, buses, nose to tail traffic.
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Whilst there doesn't appear to be anything specific as to age there are a couple of offences that can be used:
Reg 102 MV Construction & Use Regs 1986 - for any person in addition to the driver carried astride a two wheeled motor cycle suitable supports or rests shall be available on the vehicle for that person.
Obviously little dangling legs will not reach the normal rests therefore unsuitable.
Reg 100.(1) Using a motor vehicle and carrying a passenger in such a manner as likely to cause danger to any person on the vehicle on on the road.
Reg 100 (3) No vehicle shall be used for any purpose for which it is so unsuitable as to be likely to cause danager.
That's just under Road Traffic leglislation, there will be no doubt, more under the various Children and Young Persons Acts exposing a child to danger etc.
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Hi Growler,
Off subject - your post reminded me of many visits to Manila and some rides in a Jeepney to Calaoocan - felt like being on a bike!
If you need any bearings for your fleet I still have some friends in Makati.
Regards,
Matt35.
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When I was a child we used to like sitting inside the LandRover spare wheel on the bonnet, or standing on the lowered tailgate holding on to the rear of the tilt frame.
Criminal I suppose now, but great fun
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Caloocan, that's an area I wouldn't venture alone after dark, or in daylight come to that!
I know this has nothing to do with the poster's point, but after posting my above earlier I went out and the first thing I saw was 3 policeman (none with helmets) on one motorcycle, siren blaring, weaving through the traffic!
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What about child seats on pushbikes.............turns me cold every time I see one.
Said riders should be shot forthwith.
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>>What about child seats on pushbikes.............turns me cold every time I see one.
Why ? {serious question).
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>>What about child seats on pushbikes.............turns me cold every time I see one. Why ? {serious question).
>>
Because it exposes a small child to harm. (serious answer)
Road cycling experience tells me it's a VERY hazardous activity, without a youngster on the back swaying about for fun. Even dismounting isn't safe........drop the bike and it's a long way for a little 'un to fall.
I rate it about as hazardous as holding a baby over a cliff by the wrists..........reckon I'd get prosecuted for that, but it's perfectly legal for me to stuff him behind me on the mountain bike, with no idea what's bearing down on me from behind. (Quiet at the back.........that's not what I meant)
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Mirrors? I've ridden more miles than I care to mention with my sister's sprogs in a child seat, and can't recall any close calls. I agree that getting off the bike can be tricky with a wobbly child beyond the rear spindle.
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What about child seats on pushbikes.............turns me cold every time I see one.
The one that makes me cringe is the little trailer on the back of the pushbike with the sprog on board.
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"..little trailer on the back of the pushbike.."
I think the idea is that it gives the child (who should be old enough, of course) the experience of riding a bike while the parent controls balance and steering. It's still safer than letting the child loose on the road on his own two wheels, and at least he's holding onto something.
One could argue that pushbikes of any description are barely compatible with main road traffic, which is presumably why so many appear on the pavement...
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"..little trailer on the back of the pushbike.." I think the idea is that it gives the child (who should be old enough, of course) the experience of riding a bike while the parent controls balance and steering.
I'm not refering to the kid who is on his own bike being towed by parent. I'm refering to the kid being in a 2 wheeled buggy. A miniature car/caravan scenario if you like.
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Growler,
No problem - Teddy Lacsons' Jeepney could do 25mph - I named it Hidden Spring after what was then the local mineral water and the pains in my a**e when I got out of it.
My friends Ruping Bagsik and Joseph Li told me a few times of a fellow Scot who had retired from Edinburgh to the Philipinnes - wasn't you perchance?
Excuse the mis- spelling of Caloocan - the years pass.
Regards,
Matt35.
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Matt, Hidden Spring is still very much with us. Personally i drink San Miguel beer: you wil know it's actually cheaper than mineral water and much safer. I am not the Scotsman to which you refer although there are indeed many hundreds of Western retirees in this country due to the ease of getting a retirement visa, the warm weather, finding a beautiful wife, and (here comes motoring) the low cost of vehicles and gas.
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Looking at this week's Spectator, I don't fancy your chances much. One UK primary school is in hyper-Nanny mode and insists children must not sit in the grass and make daisy-chains in case they catch germs. If anything that hazardous is banned then introducing youngsters to motorcycling will probably get you in court and have them put in care.
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< get you in court and have them put in care.>>
'in car' ?
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There was a recent case of a school that had deleted the long jump from its sports activities because of all the 'germs in the sand'. No mention of the germs in the classrooms, however, or the school buses... (link)
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Getting back to the original thread - Hien Gericke, the bike accessory store, sell a child seat for bikes - how the hell they can reach the footpegs then I don't know. It's like a booster seat that straps onto the seat and then they are strapped into it. My daughter (8) is desperate to go on the back of my scooter but can't reach the footpegs on mine. However she discovered at a show that she can reach them on a Honda Silverwing and is pestering me to get one. At over 6 grand for a scooter I don't think thats likely.
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I've just spent an afternoon trying to find a bike small enough to carry my 5-year old the three mile journey to school in London (the nearest he can get into). Apart from virtually every 750+ sports bike, nothing else seems to fit. Someone then pointed out I could fix higher footpegs on my Vespa GT200 - but would this be legal?
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Many years ago, I was given some bolt on footrests , originally used on something very old, and fixed these on a bike I had then. My daughter and son were three or four, and travelled quite often on the back. Later, when my daughter was eleven, we rode a new BMW around Holland and into Germany on a running in trip, and it was very good. She enjoyed it.
I don't think I'd want to now.
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Blimey, that was a blast from the past - thread started by M.M (don't hear from you much these days M.M) and a reply from Toad. Suppose I should have looked at the date of first post! Some other "old" names there too.
Phil
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Who are you calling old? :-)
WRT to higher footpegs, I don't imagine it would be too difficult to make brackets that used the existing mounts and allowed you to refit the pegs higher. FWIW, one of the factors that led me to buy my Suzuki GS500 was the seat space and 'proper' rear footpegs, which my 7-year old can reach. That and the fact that it's not a loony sports bike...
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"Who are you calling old? :-)"
Present company excluded of course JBJ!! Makes you wonder what has happened to some of the "old names" though - often regular contributors, who suddenly "disappear". Also notable of course are some names from 3 years ago who still contribute regularly - like JBJ!!
Phil
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Ho Chi Minh City Vietnam
Dogs on bikes one I spotted was sitting in front of rider with front paws either side of speedo, dogs sat on scooter running boards. Pregnent ladies riding side saddle, if a lady is wearing a skirt generally she rides side saddle hanging on to driver with 1 hand. Families (3-4or5) on bike sometimes with small kid standing on seat between mum and dad. All bikes are max 150cc and helmets are the law so generally no helmet or it is being hand carried or hanging on a hook. My companies HSE dept none wear helmets!
My wife and I regularily compare notes on what we have seen but there are very few accidents as speed is generally slow.
I'll not get into the loads I have seen carried but sheets of glass are a regular!
Cheers
Jim
PS visit Vietnam before the loonies discover it.
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...as Phil says only FiF, LAC and Bogush and a full house again....
They are tightening up on kiddies on bikes and footrests (MOT item) see:
tinyurl.com/7zh6u
..coming soon?
dvd
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