Vauxhall Cavalier (1988 - 1995) - 95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells

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Sat 24 Jan 2009 10:58
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - peter973
I am finding my carpets are getting damp or really wet.

At first I thought it was just Front Passenger foot well after driving in the rain.

I now find other footwells (Driver's & both rear footwells) are getting wet after car is sitting stationary in the rain.

I'm not sure how water is getting there as haven't seen anything obvious.
I haven't investigated, looked at wheel arch seals or taken carpets up yet.

Any usual/standard faults or things to check which cause this ??

Thanks

Edited by peter973 on 24/01/2009 at 10:59

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Sat 24 Jan 2009 13:04
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - ex-Triumph man
Check first of all to see if the water is clean or dirty. If clean, try resealing the windscreen, if dirty, the water may be a bung or plug adrift or missing in the footwell. If the water seems to be coloured, ie antifreeze, the source could be the heater or a coolant hose.
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Sat 24 Jan 2009 13:47
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Number_Cruncher
If the water's clean - and as you say it get wet after rain, then I suspect it is clean, I would check the sunroof drain tubes first, followed by the membranes behind the door cards.

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Sat 24 Jan 2009 14:22
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - peter973
Are there sunroof drain tubes somewhere, can't see where they would be ??

Door seals look ok as far as I can tell, no breaks, still flexible.

Edited by peter973 on 24/01/2009 at 14:23

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Sat 24 Jan 2009 14:35
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Sprice
You need to open the sunroof (if it's a tilt and slide type, then slide all the way open) and the drain holes are usually at the front, one each corner. Pour some water into these holes using a watering can etc and see if it correctly drains outside the car (somewhere near front wheel arches usually), or if theres a blockage or the drain holes are no longer connected to the outside of the car (you'd have to look behind the headlining to confirm this), then the water will empty into the interior or even the around the headlining itself.

Also, either door membrane might be leaking, so remove the door card and check it out. If neither the sunroof nor door membranes, the windscreen might need resealing. My money is on the sunroof though (they're more troublesome than beneficial IME so you could always tape over the seals or use black silicon).
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Sat 24 Jan 2009 14:20
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - peter973
The water is soaked into carpet so can't tell if it's clean or dirty.

Must be rain water, as not losing antifreeze.
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Sat 24 Jan 2009 14:01
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - topbloke
the usuall culprit for this is blocked scuttle drains this is the bit below the wiper linkage there are rubber drains both sides iirc these block up with debis and need clearing occasionally or completely removing if not cleaned the scuttle fills up with rainwater and then works its way into the car ending on the floor if it was a drain plug in the fllor then the water would drain out Regards TB
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Sat 24 Jan 2009 14:36
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Dynamic Dave
I'd go with topbloke's suggestion of blocked scuttle drains.
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Sat 24 Jan 2009 18:13
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - peter973
Where does the water from the windscreen drain to ??

There is a plastic tray under whole length of the windscreen.
The tray has a grill at each end I assume for the air intakes.

I assume the scuttle drains are inside this plastic tray, underneath the air intake grills at each end.
(The plastic grills look welded to or part of the main plastic tray & don't look like they come off)

Is that correct ??

Are the drains underneath the grills inside the air intakes ??

Thanks

Edited by peter973 on 24/01/2009 at 18:15

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Sat 24 Jan 2009 20:42
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Dynamic Dave
From vague memory you have to take off the rubber trim seal that runs from wing to wing as this holds the plastic tray in place. The trim should just pull off. You can then lift up the plastic tray to see if any drains are blocked. Again from vague memory, one of the drains is just off centre of the bulkhead and just above the steering rack where the track rods connect to it.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 24/01/2009 at 20:43

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Sat 24 Jan 2009 20:44
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Pugugly
They used to get blocked by dead leaves and the such like.
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Sun 25 Jan 2009 12:08
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Victorbox
The drain is the black rubber "elephants trunk" that sits in the middle of the bulkhead and points down to the steering rack. Pull it off and clean out all the debris before replacing it. Plenty of water from a hose pipe into the vents at each end of the black scuttle cover should get the leaves out through the drain hole. As suggested water backs up and flows into the car through things like the heater blower.

Problems with the sunroof drain tubes usually manifest themselves in the boot area.
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Sun 25 Jan 2009 21:16
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - peter973
The drain is the black rubber "elephants trunk" that sits in the middle of the
bulkhead and points down to the steering rack.

>>
Problems with the sunroof drain tubes usually manifest themselves in the boot area.


If there is a leak at front of car, would that explain damp carpets in both Rear Passenger footwells ??

Initially I thought there must be another leak for the Rear.

Checking I think carpet front to rear is connected, although there is a body ridge under front seats, which I would have thought would stop most water going front to back.
Although water could travel via the carpet.
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Mon 26 Jan 2009 07:40
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - topbloke
the ridge is a box type section but still will allow water to level out in the foot wells but not side to side
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Mon 26 Jan 2009 13:53
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Victorbox
Boot area problems are usually sunroof drain tubes (or leaking rear lights) causing damp in rear corners or possible middle edges of boot carpet and usually fill up the spare wheel recess first.
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Mon 26 Jan 2009 23:02
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - peter973
Boot area problems are usually sunroof drain tubes (or leaking rear lights) causing damp in
rear corners or possible middle edges of boot carpet and usually fill up the spare
wheel recess first.


I've got that problem as well, damp boot carpet on rear corners/edges of carpet.

Where do the sunroof drain tubes drain to ??

How would there be a problem with these tubes, blocked or something else ??


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Mon 26 Jan 2009 23:24
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - topbloke
when people mess around with the rear lights (changing bulbs is usuall culprit) the drain tubes get kinked or pulled out of there holes in the floor so depositing the sunroof rain water into the boot (the sunroof seal should not let any great amount of rain through in the first place) Regards TB
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Mon 26 Jan 2009 23:51
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - peter973
the drain tubes get kinked or pulled out of there holes in the floor


The sunroof drain tubes are that long, from the sunroof to rear of boot ??
That's pretty long.

I'll have to look, I haven't noticed the tubes & didn' realise they were there.

Edited by peter973 on 26/01/2009 at 23:51

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Tue 27 Jan 2009 00:21
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Dynamic Dave
The front sunroof tubes drain into the sills by the A pillars, and in turn any water should pour out the drain holes, so it's important to keep the sill drain holes cleared, especially the ones at the front where the wings bolt to the sills.
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Tue 27 Jan 2009 21:15
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - peter973
The front sunroof tubes drain into the sills by the A pillars and in turn
any water should pour out the drain holes so it's important to keep the sill
drain holes cleared especially the ones at the front where the wings bolt to the
sills.


I assume the A pillars are the windscreen pillars.

Checking my sunroof I think
-the front sunroof drain holes are 2/3 down the front windscreen pillars.
-the rear sunroof drain holes are on roof at top left corner of rear doors

I doubt if this is the problem, as upholstery/seats are not wet & have sat in acr when raining to see if I could see anything.

But I will test sunroof drain holes.
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Wed 28 Jan 2009 10:15
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Dynamic Dave
I assume the A pillars are the windscreen pillars.


Basically yes. The front sunroof pipes are fed through the cavity of the windscreen pillar, and the end of the pipe ends up behind the kickpanel in the front footwells, which then drain into the sills.

The rear sunroof pipes run along the length of the roof to the C pillar, then down the slope just above the furthest rear side window, and then down into the boot, ending up near the rear light clusters. The rear pipes should be fitted into rubber grommits attached to the boot floor pan. These pipes can easily be dislodged when changing bulbs, and that's when you start getting water in the spare wheel well.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 28/01/2009 at 10:16

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Wed 28 Jan 2009 11:26
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - peter973
Checking my sunroof I think

>>- the front sunroof drain holes are 2/3 down the front windscreen pillars.
-the rear sunroof drain holes are on roof at top left corner of rear doors


I think I was seeing something else.
That the water will SURFACE on front windscreen pillar or at corner of rear door, then drain ON TOP of body.

(I could see small hole between rubber seals
-2/3 way down front windscreen pillar.
-& top left corner of rear doors.
I thought these could be the exits for sunroof drains)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
I think you are saying that the water goes in TUBES to
-back of front kickpanel
-& rear light cluster.
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Wed 28 Jan 2009 12:34
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Dynamic Dave
I think you are saying that the water goes in TUBES to
-back of front kickpanel
-& rear light cluster.


Pretty much so, yes.
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Wed 28 Jan 2009 11:31
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - peter973
Basically yes. The front sunroof pipes are fed through the cavity of the windscreen pillar
and the end of the pipe ends up behind the kickpanel in the front footwells
which then drain into the sills.
The rear sunroof pipes run along the length of the roof to the C pillar
then down the slope just above the furthest rear side window and then down into
the boot ending up near the rear light clusters.


It's drizzling with rain, so I'm trying to check rear boot.

I can see 2 TUBES on left & right sides of boot going to real light clusters.
I assume these are the rear sunroof drains.

I have lifted carpet & cannot see ANY build up off water in those areas !!
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Tue 27 Jan 2009 11:17
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Victorbox
Lots more info here www.cavweb-forums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=179137

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Tue 27 Jan 2009 12:38
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Dynamic Dave
www.cavweb-forums.co.uk


I thought they prefered it to be called www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk these days as the site covers 99% of Vauxhalls and not just Cavaliers?
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Tue 27 Jan 2009 20:36
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Victorbox
DD - just pasted in the historical link - never really thought about it... but I know you feature there a lot, and deep down you really want to sell that Vectra for a Mk3 Cavalier - so here is a "cheap" one for you www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C35048#

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Tue 27 Jan 2009 21:27
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - SpamCan61 {P}
LOL ... 3 grand for 14 year old mid range Cavalier?????? maybe 500 quid on a good day.
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Wed 28 Jan 2009 14:24
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Victorbox
I watched a G reg GL 1800 with 11,000 miles on it sell at Beaulieu Motor Museum in Sept for £2,100. Really weird getting into an 18 year old Cav that still smelt like a new car.
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Wed 28 Jan 2009 14:45
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - SpamCan61 {P}
I wonder who buys such cars? Not exactly a sensible bangernomics buy, is someone starting a Cavalier museum?????
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Wed 28 Jan 2009 16:59
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Victorbox
Mk2 Cavs & early Mk3's are reaching a sort of "classic" status after 20+ years. So a low mileage one has plenty of novelty/rarity value, and they are fantastic cars of course (blocked drains aside!), with a loyal following.
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Thu 29 Jan 2009 09:38
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - SpamCan61 {P}
OK, I do see a fairly clean Cavalier Mk2 cabriolet round my way, a proper factory conversion, not a barryboys job; I can see that being worth a bit. Not so sure about a bog standard midrange Mk3 though; I suppose if I was after a 'classic' Mk3 I'd look out for a 2 litre 4x4 with 'L' trim, don't think they made many of those.
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Wed 28 Jan 2009 00:32
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Dynamic Dave
Victorbox, used to own a couple of Mk3's. First one was a 1991 2.0 CD model, then later traded it in for a 1993 2.0 automatic Diplomat. The one featured in the advert you posted was the same colour by the looks of it, 26L - Lagoon Blue. Still got the touch up stick in the shed somewhere along with all the other touch up sticks from previously owned Vauxhalls. Probably next to my anorak, or in the pockets ;o)
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Thu 29 Jan 2009 15:36
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - peter973
The drain is the black rubber "elephants trunk" that sits in the middle of the
bulkhead and points down to the steering rack. Pull it off and clean out all
the debris before replacing it. Plenty of water from a hose pipe into the vents
at each end of the black scuttle cover should get the leaves out through the
drain hole. As suggested water backs up and flows into the car through things like
the heater blower.
Problems with the sunroof drain tubes usually manifest themselves in the boot area.


I don't understand.

I have lifted the plastic tray under windscreen, can see the channel, wiper motor, the fan in the centre, the elephants trunk on the bulkhead in front.

1) Surely the windscreen rainwater doesn't drain into the same channel where the Fan is ????

2) All that water will just be blown with the air into the car, wouldn't it ????

3) Hosing water into vents or that channel, will just blow water into the Fan surely ????
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Wed 28 Jan 2009 21:13
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Andrew-T
No-one's said anything about a roof aerial yet - is there one?

If water gets into all the foot wells it could be getting in at the back and running forward?

Edited by Andrew-T on 28/01/2009 at 21:13

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Wed 28 Jan 2009 21:28
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - peter973
No-one's said anything about a roof aerial yet - is there one?
If water gets into all the foot wells it could be getting in at the
back and running forward?

>>

Good point.
The aerial is on rear wing.

The rubber grommet is cracked, so worth checking, although wouldn't think that would explain damp boot carpets in both corners.

Edited by peter973 on 28/01/2009 at 21:33

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Wed 28 Jan 2009 17:00
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Victorbox
Another owner with the same problem www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1...2

You need access to an air line and compressor it would seem.
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Thu 29 Jan 2009 01:50
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - peter973
>> I think you are saying that the water goes in TUBES to
>> -back of front kickpanel
>> -& rear light cluster.
Pretty much so yes.


It's been drizzling with rain, but stopped later, so I've been checking the rear boot.

1) I have checked my boot again & think there is something going on there, the upright cloth trim at the rear of the wings seems noticably damper at bottom corner close to rear light clusters.

This could be sunroof rear drains I guess.
There are also rubber grommets in the rear corners, they look ok, but I will check.

At first when I lifted carpet I could not see ANY build up off water in those areas, but when I pulled back upright cloth, the cloth is noticably wetter at bottom.
So maybe I need to check when it's raining.

2) How about the boot rubber seal ??????????

When I opened the boot, I noticed it was quite damp on inside lower plastic lip, alng whole width of boot opening.

Is there only an oval type rubber seal on the boot opening.

Should there be any straight rubber seal on the bottom edge of the tailgate ??????
(there is nothing on bottom of my tailgate).

Edited by peter973 on 29/01/2009 at 01:51

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Thu 29 Jan 2009 22:06
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - peter973
Ok, I think we're getting somewhere.

1) Sunroof Rear Drain Tubes:
----------------------------------------
Checked these out.

Couldn't see if they were in holes properly, as they are behind light clusters.
As I pulled tubes up, there was no resistance at all, so possbly not pushed in properly.

Good chance one was not in.

Checked underneath body.

Saw the tubes fit into holes with Rubber Grommets with a very tight Cross-Slit.
This is obviously easily clogged up & problem waiting to happen !!!
(which idiot designed this !!)

Is the water meant to just drip through the Cross-Slit as it is very tight ????

Very little gap, if any, for water to get through, so water can easily back up even if not blocked with crud surely.

Pushed screwdriver through slit of rubber grommet to free up & clean out any crud.
Pushed tubes back in firmly.

2) Front Bulkhead Elephant Tube:
----------------------------------------------
Removed the Elephant Tube & immediately a little remaining water came out, which had not drained out. So probably blocked or partially blocked.

The Elephant Tube has a slit on the side of narrowing end, which is probably easily blocked.
(Again problem waiting to happen, which idiot designed this ????)

Was not obviosuly blocked, but when I cleaned it out, there was a good amount of crud there, 1" cube worth of crud.

Here are some pictures.

The famous Elephant Tube:
i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp303/93728/DSCF9713.j...g

Crud:
i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp303/93728/DSCF9709.j...g
i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp303/93728/DSCF9710.j...g

Cleaned out Elephant Tube & will refit.

Let's see if it solves the problem of damp carpets in footwells & boot.
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Fri 30 Jan 2009 00:18
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Dynamic Dave
(which idiot designed this !!)


It's actually a good design in that it will let water out, but not let it in. A simple one way valve if you like.
Is the water meant to just drip through the Cross-Slit as it is very tight ????


Yes.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 30/01/2009 at 00:21

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Fri 30 Jan 2009 01:00
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - peter973
It's actually a good design in that it will let water out but not let
it in. A simple one way valve if you like.

SQ

The Elephants Trunk possibly as the slit gap is a good size.

The Cross-Slit on the Rubber Grommets looks tight enough that water could back up in the tube. Doesn't look like there is any gap in the cross-slit.

You then rely on the seal between
-the plastic tube & the grommet, that the tube is pushed in tight against it.
-the plastic tube & metal tube surrounding the grommet.

The plastic tube doesn't have any grip & there is nothing holding the plastic tube in place.

Edited by Webmaster on 30/01/2009 at 01:06

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Fri 30 Jan 2009 08:13
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Victorbox
The amount of crud you got out from elephant's trunk doesn't seem much so I'd whip it off again wiggle a finger inside metal bulkhead to make sure some bigger leaves or other debris aren't hiding inside.
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Fri 30 Jan 2009 09:54
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - peter973
>>The amount of crud you got out from elephant's trunk doesn't seem much so I'd
whip it off again wiggle a finger inside metal bulkhead to make sure some bigger
leaves or other debris aren't hiding inside.


I'll do that & test by pouring some water into plastic tray at grill ends.
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Fri 30 Jan 2009 17:20
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Victorbox
I've not done it myself but under the black plastic windscreen cowl that the wipers go through is the fan/heater motor which sits on a gasket which can harden and leak - particularly if water is building up in that area. A good dose of mastic or bathroom sealant helps. From memory it's off with the rubber seal that runs from side to side of engine bay over the plastc cowl and off with wiper arms then very carefully remove plastic cowl which by now will be very brittle with age so take care!
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Fri 30 Jan 2009 22:21
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - peter973
>>A good dose of mastic or bathroom sealant helps.

I'll look at that if necessary, if carpets are still wet after cleaning Elephant Trunk & reseating rear sunroof drain tubes.

From what I can see, the Fan sits inside a small central area surrounded by a raised plastic Wall/Lip, so the windscreen water from the side grills is channelled to the front of the duct to the Elephant Trunk exit.

The water would have to really back up, to maybe 3-4 inches height, to get over the Wall/Lip to reach the Fan.

I wasn't sure how this works before (see post below), but think I have now worked it out.

>>Thu 29 Jan 09 15:36
>>I don't understand.
I have lifted the plastic tray under windscreen, can see the channel, wiper motor, the >> fan in the centre, the elephants trunk on the bulkhead in front.
1) Surely the windscreen rainwater doesn't drain into the same channel where the >> Fan is ????
2) All that water will just be blown with the air into the car, wouldn't it ????
3) Hosing water into vents or that channel, will just blow water into the Fan surely ????

Edited by peter973 on 30/01/2009 at 22:25

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Fri 30 Jan 2009 22:47
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - topbloke
that wall/lip is sealed where it seats on the bulkhead so water wont have to back up 3-4 inches, if the seal is poor it only needs to reach the seal which is at the bottom, i think that the drain tubes actually poke through the slits and protude about an inch iirc.Regards TB
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Sat 31 Jan 2009 00:37
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - peter973
that wall/lip is sealed where it seats on the bulkhead so water wont have to
back up 3-4 inches if the seal is poor it only needs to reach the
seal which is at the bottom i think that the drain tubes actually poke through
the slits and protude about an inch iirc.Regards TB


I have NOT pushed the sunroof drain tubes through the slits of the rubber grommets.

I don't think they would go through.

There is little or no room to push through cross-slit in rubber grommet.
The drain tubes are about same diameter as rubber grommets & hard plastic, so not sure they would give If I really tried pushing them through.

I'll take another look.

Edited by peter973 on 31/01/2009 at 00:38

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Sat 31 Jan 2009 02:18
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Dynamic Dave
i think that the drain tubes actually poke through the slits and protude about an inch iirc.Regards TB


I can't recall any of my Vauxhalls with sunroofs having the pipes poking through. The pipes only ever fitted snuggly into the grommits.
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Mon 29 Nov 2010 21:06
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - peter973

topbloke:
>> i think that the drain tubes actually poke through the slits and protude about an inch iirc.Regards TB

Dynamic Dave:
I can't recall any of my Vauxhalls with sunroofs having the pipes poking through. The pipes only ever fitted snuggly into the grommits.

I'm having to look at this problem again, few years on, damp in corners of boot.

Can see water coming from around Sunroof Drain Tube area/rear light cluster in corners of boot.

Asking again, should the tubes go through the rubber grommets or sit above them ??

I decided to take tubes out & put some sealant around the tube end before refitting in hole.
As I pushed tube down, it went through rubber grommet quite easily, due to lubrication of sealant.

Few years ago when I tried this, tubes wouldn't go through. I never realised tubes would go through the rubber grommets.

I'm going to leave tubes like that, pushed through rubber grommets, so there will be no problem with water getting out.

Thinking about it, I can easily see that if the tubes don't poke through, then enough water from roof can easily build up in the 2 inches of tube in the tube holder above the rubber grommet, which have very tight cross-slits, before overflowing into the boot, which doesn't seem right.

That's why I think tubes must poke though.

Just curious to know if someone can confirm that is how they should be , as I never realised tubes would go through the rubber grommets ??

Edited by peter973 on 29/11/2010 at 21:21

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Sun 1 Mar 2009 14:07
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - Tish
We have a zafira that is doing exactly the same thing, did you ever fix the problem on your car and if you did, how?
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Sat 4 Apr 2009 22:11
95 2.0 Damp wet carpets, water entry to foot wells - peter973
We have a zafira that is doing exactly the same thing did you ever fix
the problem on your car and if you did how?

I need to check properly, it's been pretty dry over last few months & I got sidetracked repairing another car.

I think I have definitely improved, but recently I noticed some slight damp in footwells, so may not be completely solved. Seems better than before when footwells were getting very wet.

If you read posts, you'll see I cleaned out the Elephant Trunk drain hose which is under the tray under the windscreen in engine compartment.

Edited by peter973 on 04/04/2009 at 22:14

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