Wouldn't it be nice for a change if some of the billions they take off the motorist via the myriad of taxes was actual used to benefit them for once.
'Transport Secretary Geoff Hoon has suggested plans to widen the M6, M1, M62 and M25 will be dropped.
He said a trial on the M42, using the hard shoulder at busy times, had shown it was possible to ease congestion without concreting over more land.
Mr Hoon told Sky News it also meant increasing capacity without the "difficulty and expense" of widening.
He announced plans to roll out use of the hard shoulder across the core motorway network on Thursday.
The Observer reported that plans to widen more than 220 miles of the M6, M1, M62 and M25 had been scrapped in a £5bn cost-cutting exercise.'
I've travelled on just about every mile of this countries M-Way network and really can't see that a few feet extra on each side is going to turn the UK into a barren , concrete wasteland. This country has more than enough empty land and green spaces.
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I took it to mean (a couple of months ago) that spending on infrastructure projects would cure the recession thing !
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I took it to mean (a couple of months ago) that spending on infrastructure projects would cure the recession thing !
America kick started itself after the great depression by massive infrastructure projects, Most of which aided the creation of the power house economy of the 40's 50's and 60's
where to start now?
Nuclear power stations, Purpose built TGV lines, a new multi runways airport in the thames esturary, crossrail, upgrade the power distribution network, new fibre otpics to every house, a huge water main north to south, a tunnel under stonehenge, turn the A1 into a three lane motorway for its entire length. new social housing,
that will fix it and cost about the same as the vat cut and the bank bailout.
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>>a huge water main north to south>>
We have plenty of water up here thanks.
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Yer
I think you lot call it beer
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America kick started itself after the great depression by massive infrastructure projects, Most of which aided the creation of the power house economy of the 40's 50's and 60's
A popular view but not totally supported by facts. What finally bought America out of the depression was the second world war and the wartime economy
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>This country has more than enough empty land and green spaces.
really? in that case it should be dirt cheap to buy land. Oh its not!
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There's a recession on, land must be at it's cheapest. Anyway, why buy it, simply compulsory purchase it at a bog standard price.
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So compulsory purchasing isn't buying? And what is a 'bog standard price'?. I don't think valuers have this as a definition of value!
Bring on hardshoulder running - it's relatively quick to get up and running (far less than the time it took to widen the M1 round Luton) and it works.
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Wonder what we'd all have to say if our home was compulsary purchased for a "standard price"...?
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'Bring on hardshoulder running '.... just so long as you haven't broken down and are looking for some where safe to get your wife and kids out of the car.
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>>M-Way widening axed
Another axe to grind for you, Mr X?
.. just so long as you haven't broken down and are looking for some where safe to get your wife and kids out of the car. >>
You must get your facts right before ranting and raving. The M42 experiment has been found to be a resounding success except by one or two people [ Mr X perhaps ?].
To save you the trouble, here are some links which a little bit of research would have found for you:
www.highways.gov.uk/knowledge/1353.aspx
www.highways.gov.uk/news/pressrelease.aspx?pressre...5
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The biggest success from the M42 probably is not the use of hard shoulder. It is reducing the speed when it is congested thus stopping the bunching up of cars which results in stoppages. It just flows reasonably well. This would be a good first step on the other motorways.
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It works sometimes. Usually does not work on the m25.
If however the speed cameras were specs type - it would work.
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The speed restrictions and enforcement *increase* bunching. Just notice the difference between the M6 & M42. The M42 is frightening as everyone is snailing past one another and clumping together then causing panic braking if they think they are 1mph over the speed restriction. It's always a relief to get back onto the M6.
Speed restrictions that are advisory work better as you don't get so much panic braking and people are focussing on the traffic not on what speed they're doing.
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The speed restrictions and enforcement *increase* bunching. Just notice the difference between the M6 & M42. The M42 is frightening as everyone is snailing past one another and clumping together then causing panic braking if they think they are 1mph over the speed restriction. It's always a relief to get back onto the M6.
I've never really had any probs with it personally, having said that I stick the cruise on at just over 50 on the speedo and sit back and relax, usually the inside lane and hard shoulder are free... the M6 north of Brum up to Crewe is far more frightening than the M42!
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You only have to fly into or out of Heathrow to see how mutch green space there is in London let alone the suburbs or rural areas. You could double the capacity of motorways by double decking them where there is insuficiant capacity.
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"You only have to fly into or out of Heathrow to see how mutch green space there"
Quite, or use google earth.
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Quite or use google earth.
I prefer to be en route to somewhere pleasant.
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>He said a trial on the M42, using the hard shoulder at busy times, had shown it was
>possible to ease congestion without concreting over more land.
Using the hardshoulder is a quick and easy fix for some of the mess we are in now. Dropping plans to widen some M'ways also indicates that the current administration have no intention of improving the road network, or somehow expect there to be no increase in road traffic levels.
Unless of course your seat on the Gravy Train is in jeopardy?
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=68...8
Kevin...
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Using the hardshoulder is a quick and easy fix for some of the mess we are in now. Dropping plans to widen some M'ways also indicates that the current administration have no intention of improving the road network or somehow expect there to be no increase in road traffic levels.
They're just not falling for the old predict-and-provide approach to congestion, which has been repeatedly shown to fail. Build more road capacity to allow faster journeys, and as with any other form of increased travel speeds, people use the speed to travel further (choosing a job further from home, going a longer distance for a weekend break, centralising warehouse operations etc).
Rather than building more roads (and thereby increasing CO2 emissions as vehicle miles rise), it'd be much better to try to reduce the excessive use of transport.
Motorway congestion could be fairly easily tackled by a simple form of flat-rate tolls: say £10 per to to use the motorways, regardless of distance. That'd remove all the local traffic which currently clogs up a lot of motorways, and restore the viability of the motorways for long-distance transport. Of course, introducing a toll at that sort of level would cause massive disruption as people tried to complete the same journeys by other means, so it'd have to be phased in over time.
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The predictions about traffic growth might need to be re-examined. All the signs are that traffic levels are beginning to fall because of the reccession and might continue to fall for some time.
Pay-as-you-go motorway tolls would be a bad idea as they would deter some drivers from using them, leading to more traffic using the non-motorway alternative routes.
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>That'd remove all the local traffic which currently clogs up a lot of motorways, and restore the viability ..
But it wouldn't STOP (all?) the local traffic, some of which would choose to revert to non-M'ways. Those roads would just get more congested, deliveries would take longer, more theoretical money would be wasted, ...
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>This country has more than enough empty land and green spaces.
That's debatable. But the problem is that the bits that would have to be concreted to widen the M'ways are often neither empty nor green. The empty or green bits are usually where no-one has found the need to build an M'way.
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Without wishing to distract this thread, they could win back most of an extra lane with just a bit of driver education and related enforcement, by teaching drivers that the inside lane is also for driving in... Having used the M25 a lot at weekends recently (i.e. not a lot of commercials around) it's very noticeable how much of the time the inside lane is empty.
I guess the M42 widening involved re-educating drivers (or at least them thinking a bit more about what they are doing), hence the success.
Edited by smokie on 19/01/2009 at 11:44
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>I guess the M42 widening involved re-educating drivers ..
That's the answer, Smokie. Open the hard shoulder to traffic, knowing that almost no-one will drive in it. It will still be there for emergencies - everyone happy doing what they did before, and no millions spent or green empty land sacrificed (but no economy-rescuing projects either).
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There would't need to be any motorway widening if there was proper lane discipline or you could pass either side....
Oh Noooooo.... ;-)
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