The other type of "shuffle" is when you are the third in a line of cars approaching two-lane-straight-over traffic lights where car two will pull up alongside car one in the right-hand lane. You take lane two as well, then the lights turn green and the car in front of you takes off at 5mph and never makes it above 25mph, whilst 10 cars on the inside lane have gone past. Why the heck do people do that? grrrr.
Why not just stay in the left-hand lane?
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I'm often the one in the right hand lane, I normally pull away very quickly though as I'm normally only in that lane to allow me to get to the front of the line of cars. Most cars that I come across can't hold a candle to the V6 for pulling away, I'm not out of 1st until over 30mph :-)
If I'm nervous about the car on the left (I find that powerful Audis and BMWs are the worst ones for matching my speed) I sometimes click back over to petrol to gain that extra 10bhp back which helps.
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"I'm not out of 1st until over 30mph :-)"
Even on a 30mph road? Surely not.
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My vintage car will do 45mph in first (allegedly). Gearing means the 'traffic light shuffle' is a severe pain in the neck as I'm slipping the clutch until 5 mph, and even more uphill.
If I get to a red light first though it can be fun as few modern cars will beat me to 30.
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I hate crawlers. These are the people who on seeing a red traffic light ahead, slow to a walking pace, and crawl along for the last 100m. They force others to ride the clutch, thereby wearing the clutch and brakes, and also consuming more fuel than otherwise. It also makes my foot tired, trying to ride the flipping clutch. Arrgh.
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Leif, Change down through the gears as approaching the light? But you did say walking pace which is too slow. Can't see how this uses more fuel because you might find you don't actually stop completely and therefore still have some momentum.
The trick I find is to do the speed limit as you'll often go through lights on green.
Edited by rtj70 on 22/12/2008 at 16:19
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I usualy want them to be on red, as I hate approaching green lights - speed up and you risk it changing and you won't have time to stop, slow down and it might not change to the second you hit it. Although in the 300 miles I have done driving on my own as far as I can remmeber I have only twice had to go through on amber. In this wet weather I am slightly nervious about having to do an emergency at lights with my 155/70 tyres and lack of ABS.
PS what do people do when the light turns to green but the box junction is not clear, this has never happened to me yet, I assume I need to stop at the green light and just put up with all the honking?
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Although in the 300 miles I have done driving on my own
Is that all? Oh, sorry, I forgot....
;)
as far as I can remmeber I have only twice had to go through on amber.
I don't think I've "had" to do that in 30,000 miles. Adjust your technique.
PS what do people do when the light turns to green but the box junction is not clear this has never happened to me yet I assume I need to stop at the green light and just put up with all the honking?
If needs be. You might otherwise have to put up with three points & a fine.
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>what do people do when the light turns to green but the box junction is not clear,
Given that some box junctions now have cameras, yes you wait till the exit is clear and they can honk away.
No green lights suddenly change from green to amber to red in such short time that you have to panic stop, unless you are vastly over the speed limit.
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Leif Change down through the gears as approaching the light? But you did say walking pace which is too slow. Can't see how this uses more fuel because you might find you don't actually stop completely and therefore still have some momentum.
They almost stop 2 or more car lengths from the car ahead, then crawl along at a *slow* walking pace. It must use more fuel. Normally I would depress the clutch, and smoothly slow on approaching the lights, allowing for a green light. Clearly the engine is idling. Once stationary, the engine is still idling. It has to use less energy than riding the clutch. It is also safer as it reduces the likelihood that the person behind you will leap out of their car and bury a hatchet in your skull ... ;)
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They almost stop 2 or more car lengths from the car ahead then crawl along at a *slow* walking pace. It must use more fuel. Normally I would depress the clutch and smoothly slow on approaching the lights allowing for a green light.
Clutch?
I guess you mean one of those daft extra pedals which drivers had to push before torque-converter automatics were inverted.
Why do have one of those old-fashioned things if you spend time in urban traffic?
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How does an inverted torque-converter automatic work then :-)
Sorry being a pedant.
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NW, four words to consider re autos v manuals.
Emissions
Economy
Exercise
Enjoyment
Take your pick
;-)
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NW four words to consider re autos v manuals. : Emissions, Economy, Exercise, Enjoyment Take your pick
If anyone thinks that a clutch pedal is meaningful exercise, they'd better get a new trainer. And if poking a pedal and wiggling a stick is enjoyment, then for goodness sake don't allow yourself to watch paint dry or the excitement will kill you ;-)
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Yes but automatics are directly responsible for global warming and deep vein thrombosis aren't they? Not very eco-friendly. In fact some manual 4x4s emit fewer pollutants than conventional cars with auto boxes. I think they should be banned and the owners forced to grow trees instead.
;-)
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crawlers ... force others to ride the clutch thereby wearing the clutch and brakes
Clutch *and* brakes??
I wonder whether they've all got specially low-geared vehicles...
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How can I avoid going through amber though? Remember the Fiesta was never well known for its brakes and if I slammed my brakes on just to avoid going through on amber I may well skid. Remember I also live in the middle of Manchester and a two mile journey I would probably pass through at least 10 sets of lights.
I don't know what else I can do, I always slow down to about 25mph if the lights are on green and have been on for a while, but if I slowed down too much I risk being honked, tailgated, sworn at, beaten up the lot.
I admit the last time I did it was because the red light camera distracted me, which is quite ironic.
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Rattle
I have live in Manchester/Stockport and been driving for about 14 years. I also drove a MkII and MkIII Fiesta to begin with. Never had a problem with amber lights. Never have since.
I don't even slow down for lights if on green but assume they might change. At 30mph the amber to red sequence is long enough to stop unless you are that close you have to go through. But even then I'd rarely have to do this. And if you feel the brakes are no good get it checked out.
Only 300 miles... even when I don't go away on business trips (try to use the train a lot more now and claim back) I do more than 300 miles per month usually.
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I have never needed to really brake yet apart from at lights once or twice but they have always been fine maybe I need to do some emergency stops on a quiet road so I know what the vehicle can do. I did have to brake suddenly the other day when some lights changed to amber.
99% of the time I don't have a problem I think the other day I just paniced a little bit because of the camera. The laws of physics mean avoiding going through amber is impossible, because they might change the second you approach. I will try stopping next time its on amber though.
I have had my brakes checked out when I first bought the car.
I am thinking after the new year I might have a driving lesson to ensure I am doing ok.
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"maybe I need to do some emergency stops on a quiet road"
If you need to brake hard to stop for lights you're either (almost) at the lights or going to fast. If you brake hard you will get the car behind parked in to boot ;-)
Traffic lights are not an emergency stop.
Edited by rtj70 on 22/12/2008 at 17:38
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Yep as I said I only had to this once, but there was nothing behind me, and I was only doing around 25mph max at the time as I had only turned into the road, so I had time to stop in this instance.
I think my speed is fine, where I can probably improved on is learning observation tricks, e.g look at the traffic on the other side of the road to judge if the lights may suddenly change.
The other issue I need to do is learn more about car speed through feel. At least I know my issues and am working on improving them, too many people just don't give a toss and even purposly went through on orange.
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>I think my speed is fine, where I can probably improved on is learning observation tricks, >e.g look at the traffic on the other side of the road to judge if the lights may suddenly >change.
STOP IT
As i said, If you are driving within the speed limit NO traffic light is going to go from green to red fast enough to cause an emergency stop. Stop looking at traffic coming the other way and look at the ruddy colour of the lights
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Remember that Rattle has apparently driven only 300 miles on his own since passing! He needs to drive more. Even drive at quiet times to get your confidence and anticipation up a bit.
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I just can't believe that, I did 300 miles in the first week of passing my test, I was that excited.
Myself, I just think they're on the wind up...
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Statement (a)
>>Remember the Fiesta was never well known for its brakes and
In no way reconciles with statement (b)
>>if I slammed my brakes on just to avoid going through on amber I may well skid.
Either the brakes are useless, in which case you will never lock the wheels; or if you do skid the whole time, it is because the brakes are excellent.
You should do lots of driving, preferably with somebody else in the car too whom you trust (father?). Second pair of eyes always helps, even more for a novice.
But as 300 miles isn't even a full tank of fuel, I'm surprised...
Edited by Mapmaker on 22/12/2008 at 18:46
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I wonder did Rattle really mean 300 miles total - taxis could work out cheaper than the insurance. I have done more than that in a day as will many others on here.
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Clutch *and* brakes??
Yes, they often crawl ahead, stop for a few seconds, then crawl ahead again, and so on.
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"do that in London and I will have that two car gap off you"
AE - Is the levitation standard or an option on your car? I drive in London occaiasionally so know the tactics used, try them in my area and you had better have your doors locked.
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AE - Is the levitation standard or an option on your car? I drive in London occaiasionally so know the tactics used try them in my area and you had better have your doors locked.
>occaiasionally?
PAH be like stealing candy off a baby.
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PAH be like stealing candy off a baby.
You are probably right, I must get a battle-scarred rusty Transit for my next visit.
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I don;t like driving tbh. So I only drive when it is essential to do so, the car has always stopped when I needed to, it is I just rather not have to an emergency stop at lights, I would rather go through on amber or stop earlier.
I am considering in the new year about what to do about the car, I don't need it, but I am worried if I sell it now I mayh never get back into driving again.
Maybe I need a couple of extra driving lessons or sit in with my dad just to get my confidence back up, as it is low atm.
I've had the car exactly two months now, and about a week I didn;t drive it until I got the spare wheel tray fault sorted.
I just still seem to be making some silly mistakes. I worry too much about everything so in some ways I was happier on the bus but then again my car is handy.
I suppose also I have had a very good level of freedom as I live in a big city, there are trains to most places I would ever need go to, and Idon't mind setting next to smelly tramps.
Edit I think half the problem is I still feel like am braking the law all the time, even though my car is taxed, MOT'ed, insured etc.
Edited by Rattle on 22/12/2008 at 20:07
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Rattle,
I think you're having bit of a crisis of confidence. I think you're the sort of person who worries a lot about how you do things which is good, but what you need to learn is how to relax a bit more when your drive and don't worry too much about the theory and the law!. Being a good driver only comes with experience. Passing the test is one thing, feeling you are a reasonably competant driver is another. You have to expect that you will make mistakes but the thing is to learn from them. A few more lessons or a few trips out with your Dad sounds like a good idea but do also take a the car out by yourself to gain experience as much as you can.
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I think it is just the sensation that as law abiding citizen the only way I could ever get into trouble is well nothing, maybe if I had have a few there has been a couple of situations where I may have got a bit of a telling off but generally I am a good boy. In a car it is just one law after another.
I do try and push myself, my dad offered to take the stuff to my grandmas and also give me a lift to my job tonight, but I said no I will drive, as I knew I need to drive it. Also atm all my jobs have bene local or in places where taking a car is just plain stupid.
I am so used to being a passanger it still feels like I never actually passed my test. I also sometimes I feel I fluked my test, although I only got four minors I was probably a lot better than I realised in my test.
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Rattle,
The very fact that you have passed the test counts for something in itself.
You now have FREEDOM!
Imagine if you get sent somewhere where there are no trains? Or the train service is rubbish?
And you have to hire a car?
As advised by other postings, get some time behind the wheel, enjoy yourself, don't mimse along, but rather hit the open road and get a feel for speed, other fast-moving traffic, anticipation etc.
Maybe one of the other backroomers would volunteer to take you out for an afternnon, with you and he alternating the driving... you could ask questions while he drives , Why does he do X, Y or Z?, and while you drive, he could give you some advise on what you should be looking out for, when to speed up, when to slow down, etc etc etc.
This is driving in the REAL world, which can only enhance the stuff you learned from the instructor. Also, by applying the newly-learned rules of the road, you know that you won't slip into those bad habits that so many of us do...
Confidence building is very important, and you can only do that by building up experience behind the wheel - and remember, you only start to learn to drive after you have passed your test! :)
Oh, and find a nice bit of quiet road, and test your braking... full-on emergency stop from 30, then try easing off gradually, so that you get the idea and the 'feel' for when the brakes are going to bite, and also get an idea of stopping and slowing down distances. Expereince will teach you when to take foot off accelerator, when to use clutch, change to relevant gear, when to start braking etc, and when to start accelerating again etc etc
Edited by Ian (Cape Town) on 23/12/2008 at 04:15
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In answer to the OP, the shuffle is to prevent the domino effect. If say 10 cars are close together then the traffic queue up is 10 cars long, if each car leaves car's length gap between them then the queue is effectively 20 cars long. Most traffic lights are on a time based change sequence so when the lights change more cars will get through if they are close together, hence you will notice that the first couple of cars at the front of the queue wil tend to leave bigger gaps than the ones at the back as they are hoping to get through before the light change back to red.
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I would even volunteer to sit with Rattle while he builds his confidence, if he wants. He can't be as bad as my ex wife, and she passed the test ok!
Seriously Rattle, I have some free time between xmas and new year, so email me if you would like some help.
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For the first few thousand miles after learning to drive it can be like one major panic attack after another. I was just like you! Was totally paranoid about doing something wrong. Have you got the Green L plates on the car that tell others you are a new driver? That helps a bit as it does make quite a few people give you more leeway rather than than roasting your nuts the moment you hesitate for more than half a second. I had a car and would often use the bus rather than drive as I was so anxious!
Look into doing the passplus scheme. That gives you more experience and having an instructor in the car always helps as they can talk you through situations you haven't met before. Most of the first 20,000 miles or so will contain all sorts of new things and it is hard as this is when the real learning actually starts.
Once you have completed passplus you can look at advanced driving such as with the IAM or with Ridedrive. The latter I did and it was really good as you drive with a police trained class 1 instructor so they really know how to get the best out of your driving.
It's all just practice and understanding that you will make mistakes and that other people on the road also make mistakes and lots of them have been driving for years but can just as easily have a blonde moment and do something daft! As long as you learn from what you do wrong then you'll be a good driver.
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Very good points, teabelly.
Rattle, one other thing to bear in mind is that the Highway Code as learned for your test still remains relevant long after you passed, and you'll experience a lot of 'new' stuff as your driving experience grows, so it is useful to keep referring back to the Code, and looking up the 'what should I have done?' things.
Re-reading the text, now that you have experienced a few months driving, will not only give you new insights into the 'whys' of the laws, but will also allow you to check if you acted correctly in certain scenarios.
And there are situations which occur very very rarely - but ensure that you remain well versed in what to do should you encounter them.
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The car as a stimuli for anxiety... Two main ways forward with that.
1) Spend many hours a day in the car - the autonomic nervous system can`t keep up the response at the same level.
2) Work out what to you are really pleasurable experiences and achieve them in the car.
Age 16 - the next weekend after getting the Honda 90 - standing on London Bridge and feeling the `History` (400 mile trip in mid winter)
Later with a girlfriend - (well someone else`s wife - we were only 25ish) - duvet and a deserted east coast beach in winter - (Fraisthorpe - near the second world war pillboxes and tank traps) overnight in the car. Some wine and food - engine on tickover all night - watching ships on the horizon and running naked at midnight into the sea.
More recently - Battlefield visits in France Belgium and Germany. + all over Europe more or less in intervening years.
Rattle, I`ve known young people give up driving and lead `restricted` (sure, subjective I know) lives as a result.
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