I have a new E-class for a week in September, I'll let you know.
However, whilst I enjoy reading JC, I wouldn't take his opinion on a car too seriously.
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I find it amusing that Jeremy Clarkson together with Qwentin Wilson used to slag diesels off bigtime on Top Gear.The talk used to be of dirty smelly engines with the "Death Rattle "
How times have changed !
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Not sure that diesels have changed that much. More like JC and Quentin are getting older and deafer...
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The talk used to be of dirty smelly engines with the "Death Rattle " How times have changed !
Times may have. Diesels haven't!
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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To be pedantic,no diesels have not changed!
A diesel engine is still a diesel engine !
What has changed is their quality in terms of power and refinement.When the likes of Mercedes and BMW start offering their flagship cars with diesel engines its for a reason.
To deny the huge improvements is just stuborn ignorance.
I remember Autocar placing the BMW 330d at the very top of their best 100 cars.The Ford Focus TDCI is recognised by many pundits as being the best of the range.
I look forward to the first diesel powered Bentley or Roller.
Impossible ??? .We will see !
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Nothing at all wrong with diesels - in farm equipment. Refined from within maybe, but if you don't want to sound like a Taxi Cab to the listening world, petrol it is.
I don't buy the diesel is clean deal either. Even the cars you mention stick out a mountain of filthy, asthma inducing particles everytime they accelerate!
The govt could get more tax from petrol users - simple as that. When enough people have switched, they'll find a reason to cane diesel.
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You're dead right there Steve and the same will apply to LPG when more people start using it. The promised savings against initial installation costs will then vaporise. Just the Govt. moving the goalposts yet again !!
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Your attitudes are typical of people who have stated their position and nothing is going to make you change,is it.
Keep the blinkers on !
Volvoman,I presume you drive a Volvo.I take it then that you are typical of the breed in that you are a menace on the road.
It is well known that most Volvo drivers are hopeless,never look where they are going and are the bain of a motorcyclist's life,or is that another stereotypical blinkered view ?
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Saucer of milk for Bernie, eh Volvoman?
Raw nerve touched obviously, which blinkers are they then? The ones that still allow you to see the black stuff that diesels emit?
As for changing attitudes - when the day comes that a diesel is as quiet, smooth and powerful - I'll be interested, of course it will no longer have beneficial tax status by then because everyone will want one! Which was the main point made.
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No raw nerves here !
The whole point about this "argument" is that you state that there has been no improvement in the diesel engine.
This is clearly nonsense.The new breed of diesel engine is not as dirty as those of old.Clearly an improvement
New diesels are more powerful.An improvement.
New disesls with a particulate trap are even more cleaner.An improvement.
By the way.do you suck in a good lungfull of benzine when you fill up ? I am sure you know that benzine is one of the more carcigenic substances known.
What about the PM2.5's that the good ole petrol engine pumps out.
How many suicides are performed with the old hosepipe through the window job and how many of those are done with diesel cars ?
Answer NONE.Nasty stuff that Carbon Monoxide.
All in all your comments about diesels belonging in farm vehicles makes you look not only ignorant but pathetic as well
BAAA BAAA BAAA
Your flock is calling !
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No raw nerves, just hysteria.
The amazing powers of deduction you demonstrated in arriving at the conclusion that Volvoman may drive a Volvo - are letting you down.
Re-read my post. At no point did I say that diesels have not improved. Look where they started from - they needed to.
Once again my point is that even after all that - they are not as smooth, powerful & quiet as petrol equivalents. I might also mention that they seem to need massive turbo boost to even get close.
I remain convinced that the "clean diesel" spin is a govt ruse to tax the majority. Should diesel become the majority - they will find a way to clobber that.
You may disagree, but before you seek to justify your own view with nonsensical outbursts about ignorance at least read what has been written.
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Steve,I accept that you did not state that diesels have not improved,but the jibe about farm vehicles sort of implied it.
You say that they are not as smooth,powerful or quiet as petrol.
They may not be AS smooth but so what,when driving them they can come very close.Of course it depends on which make of diesel,some are smoother than others,as is the case with petrol.
Powerful ? well that depends what you mean by power.It is fact that a diesel produces far greater torque which translates into better "drivability" on the roads.If we are talking a race track or similar then that is a different matter.Petrol engines need reving to gat their power,and some of them can be very course.
Quietness. I remember reading about the Citroen Xantia 90 HDI(for example),and it was stated that this car had a driveby level of quietness that exceeded and of the petrol engines in the range and I seem to remember it was stated that it was quieter than a Rolls Royce driving by at 30 mph.
To say that they need a turbo to operate to get close,well OK,so what.Petrol engines need greater revs,an ignition system,and use more fuel.
All I am saying is that your initial statement was unfair in its tone,and just echoed the blinkered and well worn predudices of people who dismiss the diesel engine without even trying them.
I never intended the question of fuel duty to be part of this argument.As for Volvoman,no offence intended,I was just pointing it is easy to perpetuate these things.I am sure he drives his Volvo with the greatest of respect to other users of the road and Volvo drivers in general are beyond reproach.
:-)
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OK, the jibe about farm equipment was a gag.
As for Volvo's - I have one too, not a diesel - although, I have tried their D5, which I think others will confirm is a well thought of example. But although torque was good - it's only part of the experience and I still found it slower off the mark and noisy when idling, worse on start-up.
Also I've just come back from France where I'm sure you know they are big fans of oil burners, particularly their own. Have you heard the noise a French traffic queue makes? Jeez.
But seriously, you pay more for the car, the mpg advantage so often highlighted is negligible on the cars with decent performance. Petrol mpg and emmissions are so much better than they ever were. It's not at all clear cut.
Tax wise, Volvoman was spot on when he mentioned LPG 'cos the same applies - if we all went on to that, you watch the tax rise.
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Interesting discussion but isn't the point we are considering a 6-year-old vehicle (BMW) with a brand spanking new one (Merc.)? I know the beemer's had a few face lifts but in autumn 2003 the NEW BMW 5 series is to be launched. I've been meaning to replace my ageing 3 series and have looked at the new Merc. I was really impressed with the way the Merc salesman treated us with total indifference when we called in to make some enquiries. His demeanour suggested the cars will not only sell themselves but they'd be doing me a favour by arranging a test drive (this delivered as he sat behind his desk and we stood in front of it). Think I'll hold on for another year and wait for the BMW (and probably go for a diesel!). stephen d
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To add to my previous posts,I was reading an article in CAR magazine and came across the statistic that of all the S class Mercedes sold,80% were diesels.
Now I am sure that if you can afford an S class you do not need to consider the cost of fuel in your budget.I must therefore conclude that diesel is chosen because the buyers prefer the engine characteristics.
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Nice one Bernie but I think the new co car tax has more than a little to do with it. While this arrangement stands, even with a small surcharge, it's worth thousands a year in tax on a car of this price.
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Well,I suppose that is part of the equasion,but I presume that the 80% is their total production figure and therefore not limited to the UK.This would suggest that our thieving government does not account for this discrepancy alone ?
BTW have you seen the plans for a Diesel V8 powered BMW 7 series.That diesel "Roller" is not far off now I think !
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Diesel sounds like a good idea for those rollers - with their load requirements! Most roller owners probably can't hear the engine over the ticking of the clock anyway.
Did you see that scare story about the Iraq thing leading to higher price diesel? - Think it's in the Londn Evening Standard www.thisislondon.co.uk I couldn't really see why they didn't think all fuel would be affected.
Where would 24hr news be if there were no scare stories to try and animate us?
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