Having been stupid enough to brag on this forum in Aug '07 that the timing chains on Nissan Primera III's don't break, the inevitable seems to have happened! (well stretched until the engine sounds like a bag of spanners anyway!)
Apparently this is quite a common problem on the petrol P11-144's.
Trouble is that if on Monday the garage do confirm that this is the problem then the likely bill is going to be around £500 plus vat (obviously not from a main dealer we'd be into 4 figures then!)
The car's a 2000 X plater, 1.8, a bit tatty, alloys corroded, rust munching happpily into the tailgate and consequently is worth about £750 at most.
What would you chaps recommend? Throw more money at the thing (it actually drives really well!) and get a new timing chain or get what I can for spares and repair and buy something else? (probably only have a budget of about £2000) My worry is that for that price bracket I could soon end up with another big repair bill if I'm unlucky and the Primera is basically sound apart from the cosmetic issues.
....there's an outside chance that since the problem came on suddenly (noise/em light on/loss of power/doesn't want to rev) it's just the cam/crankshaft sensor which was subject to a recall in 2002 but I can't find out if it's been done 'till Monday morning. If it is, then it should be a free fix and I'll be a very happy bunny!
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"(probably only have a budget of about £2000)"
Don't spend £2k. Spend £999 or less. No discernible difference in quality, but with the £2k car you have to throw more at it, whereas the £999 car can be chucked if the worst happens.
Edited by oldnotbold on 01/11/2008 at 18:29
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See what the garage say on Monday.
£2k buys you someone elses carp or, fixes your car up very nicely thank you very much. Sounds like your car only needs the rear hatch sorted (buy a blue, red or whatever is in good condition on at this end of the price range). Depends what your Nissan looks like underneath at eight years.
Edited by gmac on 01/11/2008 at 19:32
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TBH if it's £500 and the car is otherwise in good order with no structural rot I'd bite the bullet and spend on the current car.
Think about it this way: it's a slightly more expensive alternative to the cambelt replacement. If you get a car for a couple of grand, chances are that pretty soon it'll need a new belt for peace of mind. Add one more consumable item (clutch, exhaust, brakes all round, four new tyres, new alternator etc etc) and you'll have spent the £500 on the new car. And will it be as reliable as the one you have?
Whether to pour the cash into the current car all depends on how good it is generally. Primeras are pretty bulletproof; to get to the point where it needs a new camchain it'll doubtless have at least 100K on the clock, and think of the cambelt expense a Vectra would have landed you with at that mileage? Three belts/tensioners, each about £200?
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I make that two belt changes on a 100K Vectra ;-). Anyway I'd spend the 500 notes on the better the devil you know basis.
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I'm not familiar with this engine, but a thought:
If the chain tensioner and guides are in reasonable condition and the chain has just stretched to its limit, see if the tensioner can be retracted from outside the engine or from under the cam cover.
If this is the case, the old chain can be split in situ and a new split chain joined to it. The new chain is then simply wound into place with the tensioner released. A link with a spring clip completes the job.
I did this on a terminally rattly SAAB 9000 and it fixed the car for the rest of its lifespan.
659.
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Have a look at NPOC website. In cars for sale 2 0r 3 v.nice sub £1K Prims.
Phil I
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thanks for all the really useful replies, I'll see what the garage says on Monday and take it from there. I've been on the NPOC forum Phil and you're right, a nice sub 1K Prim makes a lot of sense (once i've had a good long listen at the cam chain of course!)
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£1000 isn't unlikely to get you anything much better than what you have. Why not replace the chain, get a tailgate from a from a scrappie ... and then you'll have a car you know with the major problems fixed, for less cash than a replacement?
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Buy a workshop manual and do the job yourself?
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If your car was immaculate then the £500 + vat might be worthwhile... but spending on a tatty one??
If you decide to change in the £2k range there are some amazing value cars out there. Just make sure you buy a £3k car for £2k not a £1k car for £2k... if that makes sense.
David
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Either.
1. Put it on eBay, accurately described and hope to get £4-500 for it; somebody will fix it up for less money than a garage will charge. Then spend £500 on an equivalent, rust-free T-reg specimen, and the whole transaction will have cost you nearly nothing.
2. Spend £500+VAT (= £600) on it, and it's still a tatty heap worth £750-at-most (if you're being honest, try £600).
And yes, whatever you do, don't spend £2k on a car; £1k max.
Edited by Mapmaker on 03/11/2008 at 10:50
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I'm not sure if I'd bother (ask 10 people the same question and you'll get 10 different answers).
I sold my Y reg Primera 1.8S with 63k on the clock for £600 c/w 10 months MoT and Tax about 3 months ago so if yours was OK and was in a similar condition then this is what it's worth (roughly)...
I'd go with the suggestion of putting it on e-bay, and buying another sub £1k Primera, be it via NPOC or any other source. You could try and go for a P11 Primera to try and reduce the timing chain problem.
This way you aren't without a car, though you do have to go and look for one.
I'd spend £500 on a car worth £5k, but never on a car that would be worth £600 once the work was done, It just doesn't make any financial sense.
cheers
Stu
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I really don't understand the thinking in this sort of thread.
"I'd spend £500 on a car worth £5k, but never on a car that would be worth £600 once the work was done, It just doesn't make any financial sense." is a typical example (sorry Stu, not specifically singling you out).
The way I see it, you can spend £500 and have a car that, while slightly tatty, is a known quantity, mechanically sound otherwise, and generally a safe bet.
Or, you can chuck it away, getting £600, and spend £1-2k on a completely unknown car. You have the hassle of finding it, changing insurance, selling your own car, and end up having spend between £400 and £1400 on a car which may be fine, or may have all sorts of problems lining up that caused the previous owner to sell.
£500 buys you a reliable and known car. I don't understand why it's theoretical value should you decide you didn't need a car any more would come into it. If you still need a car, it's surely how much you're out of pocket, and how long the process takes, that matters? Nothing else...
I suspect I'm in the minority here...
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No, I'm with you Gordon. I take the view that once I've bought a car ( always cash never financed ) that that chunk of money has gone. Then you can say that whatever it costs to run/maintain is your ongoing cost. If you then get anything back when you eventually part with it, then look on that as windfall gain.
It's only when you buy a car on finance that residual value and or depreciation really matter. If you save up and pay cash you can just forget about it like last years holiday costs. Continue to put away whatever can be afforded into a car fund while you own the current one and hey presto...off you go again.
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Absolutely right, HB and GM. At this level of expenditure (whatever it is, costing a few hundred quid) you are just taking a gamble on the consequences. It's not much more than a gut-feeling, so if you find the car a comfortable old friend, fix it. Otherwise look for something better.
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Ok it's academic in this case now, but I'd much rather spend 500 notes on keeping a known quantity going than gamble 1 - 2K on an unknown quantity; indeed as a serial bangernomics driver I've been in this position several times. I suppose the worst decision I made was 200 quid or so on a new head gaslet for amk3 Cvalier at 186K, the giving up on the car 10K later due to a variety of collant hose leaks. Even then I did't regard the cost of the repairs bad value for another 10K miles.
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I've owned 20-odd cars in 20 years of driving and, quite frankly, if I've paid over £500 for a car (until very recently, all my cars were sub £2k with the majority being less than £500) then I expect it to do it's job of being legal, safe and usable. And they all have done this job. The bad ones I just cast aside if something went wrong big-style, an example being an ex-police Montego whose gearbox expired at 150k, 2 months after I'd bought it. Bought another Montego for £100 for it's gearbox, the replacement Monty was better condition than the original so just threw the old broken Montego away and used the replacement one.
Again, had a dodgy old Metro, more owners than I'd had hot dinners so of course was a dog, again, threw it away once I realised I'd never be able to keep it on the road, moved on, next car a lot better (well, it was legal, driveable and didn't break down!).
I think all the others just worked.
I do recall moaning big style at a mate who I bought his Cavalier from for £600 when it needed £300's worth of work 8 months later for it's MoT. I moaned and I moaned and I moaned about that to him. Never again. I expected it to be as new, it had after all been serviced from new with FSH!!!
anyway, I appear to have got slightly sidetracked and the discussion is irrelevant anyway.
Stu
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"it actually drives really well!"
So would a £1k replacement, I feel. Do a search here on 'bangernomics' for more ideas, if you need any. I wouldn't spend money on anything where rust is taking a hold.
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Well!!
Turns out it was a coil pack with was at fault. £115 fitted so the scrap or repair question is a much easier one now!
The rust is confined to the tailgate and I can probably treat/fill
the 2 patches this w/e if it stays fine.
Hopefully get at least another 50K out of the thing now!
Thanks again for all the replies
Steve
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"Turns out it was a coil pack"
Glad to hear it! Not sure why that would make it sound like a bag of spanners, though, or were you just being graphic..?
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"Turns out it was a coil pack" Glad to hear it! Not sure why that would make it sound like a bag of spanners though or were you just being graphic..?
Okay, spanners with plastic coated handles in a well insulated bag!
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what ??!
That's amazing, how on earth did a dodgy coilpack get mis judged as a dodgy timing chain ??!!!
anyway, I am glad the Primmy will carry on for you.
cheers
Stu
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If your budget is £2000 (I'm assuming that includes the £750 for your Primera) then you've got £1250 cash available.
If you've got £1250 cash available and the timing chain repair is £600 then you can afford to spend up to £650 on cosmetic repairs (quite a generous allowance?).
That way you'll also have the piece of mind of already knowing that the car is basically sound, that it 'drives well' and that the repair is guaranteed for a certain length of time.
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So, st1, you'd be prepared to sink £1250 into a car that'd be worth £750 at the end of the procedure? If you enjoy tearing up pound notes, why not give them to me instead...?
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