Toyota Starlet - high death rates in accident
Yaris - out of budget
Micra - High death rates according to HJ
Almera - Nasty inside and hard to find
Corrola - I shall not comment.
Then there is Puntos, MK1s are not bad cars but finding a good one is impossible, too many things go wrong with them, gear change, HGs etc.
Clio MK2 - Out od budget for a good one, I might find a phase 1 MK2 for £1200 but its unlikely. Very reliable cars though if properly serviced.
106/Saxo - too old and I probably won't fit in them.
My old Fiesta was a shed but that was my fault not the cars, you will find sheds of any sort of car.
I am still looking at the last generation Escorts, 306 petrols (diesels are very expensive to insure for some odd reason, despite being group 4), Xsaras, Rover 200/25s, Seat Ibizas, Polos.
I just know Fiestas very well, and I would not have a clue what to look for on say a VAG 1.4 8 valve engine.
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Toyota Starlet - high death rates in accident Yaris - out of budget
And small.
Micra - High death rates according to HJ
Oh, rules that one out then!
Almera - Nasty inside and hard to find Corrola - I shall not comment. Then there is Puntos MK1s are not bad cars but finding a good one is impossible too many things go wrong with them gear change HGs etc.
Heard Punto's are unreliable, but then heard from other people that they're ok.
to insure for some odd reason despite being group 4) Xsaras Rover 200/25s Seat Ibizas Polos. I just know Fiestas very well and I would not have a clue what to look for on say a VAG 1.4 8 valve engine.
Good luck trying to find a cheap 1.4 16v Polo or Ibiza. I've been looking and cannot find one.
I can find a fair few cheap Golf's but they do tend to be high on mileage, apart from that, I've no idea what to look for in a Golf.
Luke.
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Golfs are out of your budget. You might get an old MK2 Golf if you're into that sort of thing, good solid reliable cars just too old for me though.
The MK3 Golf was not as well built as the MK2 I as far as I can work, most of them all look rusty now and seem to be often found being towed by an AA truck.
The MK4 Golf sadly is a disapointment, too much image and not enough substance, I have been in a few and the ride quality always seems harsh and they have a habbit of speeding up so they are driving at 40mph with about 10 inches gap from the car in front. The indicators often seem to pack up and the wing mirrors never seem to work.
Thats my attack on MK4 drivers down with :D.
However the Seat Leons and Skoda Octavia are very good value cars, insurance will be a problem though.
Puntos are car that if you were to buy new you could probably turn imto a very reliable car, I know one example did 300,000 miles on the original 8v FIRE engine! The autotrader add was quite funny 300,000 miles, yes 300k. It was for sale at £250 at the time but for some reason I decided to give it a miss D.
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I don't know why you are looking at small cars at all.
At the price you're looking at they will all be sheds. None are built to last; you bang on about safety but the fact is that a 3* Mondeo-class car will wipe out a 4* supermini in an accident; and the total cost of ownership is not significantly more at 8K miles/year.
It's difficult to think of a Mondeo-class car from that era that wasn't solid and reliable. They're built for the miles, fewer people want them so they are cheaper etc etc.
In any case, the Fiesta might have been acceptable in a crash from 1995 onwards but the Escorts you mention certainly weren't.
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I do like the idea of a big car, but insurance, tax etc still costs more, and parking is a real issue. Also I don't intend to keep the car that long. A Mondeo 1.6 might be ok but they are rare.
I will forget the Escort, like you point out they are only 2 star.
The £500 clutch repair on the Mondeo really puts me of them apart from the shear size.
I must admit a Mondeo is very tempting and I have actually made a thread else where on the topic, the general feeling was a Mondeo would be ideal for me, I just still think they are too big.
The car I want is a Ford Focus, but it is out of my price range, I could probably afford £2k but then I would have no money put away for repairs etc.
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OK, the Mondeo is a bit bigger than the average car in its class and the clutch change can be an issue.
In which case here's a list of cars I'd be interested in in your position, bearing in mind that some of these are quite rare HOWEVER that shouldn't put you off -- it's only an internet search that'll take you five minutes to complete tops....
Nissan Primera (smaller than a Mondeo, built like a tank, my first choice)
Toyota Avensis/Camry/Carina (run forever)
Mitsubishi Carisma (as you point out these can be overpriced, but still)
Citroen Xsara/ZX (Xsara in particular is a high-VFM car)
Mazda 323
Honda Civic/Accord (would have said Rover 416 with the Honda engine but these are old now)
Fiat Bravo/Brava (better than Punto IMO)
Seat Cordoba/Toledo
Vauxhall Astra/Vectra (cheap and reliable)
Daewoo Nubira (3* safety IIRC, Vauxhall engines)
Hyundai Lantra (again 3* IIRC, solid Mitsubishi engines)
Kia Mentor (OK, *real* leftfield choice, and I admit I know little about them other than they are Mazda-based)
Proton Persona (not sure about the safety on these)
Point I'm making is that if you go for a slightly larger car with the 'wrong' badge, you'll most likely end up with a better car than if you try for a sought-after small runabout with small change -- any decent Fiesta will attract top money, same for the Micra/Saxo/106/Clio etc etc.
I haven't ended up with a nail yet, following this principle -- yeah sure there has been the odd bill but nothing too eye-watering. Currently own a Primera and a Daewoo.
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Primeras are actually nice cars, I cannot escape the image of Toyotas but Nissan seems to have a stronger image these days, perhaps because they are more fun to drive. I will get a quote now for insurance on a primera, it might bhe a problem it might not be.
The Mazda 323 (old shape upto 97) was very bad for safety, the Kia Mentor probably will be too, most far east cars of that era were until around 2000 when they could no longer sell death traps as the public got wise to them.
The Seat Cordoba would be a good choice, I am looking at Astras there was one for £450 an M reg, but it was in a dodgy area and its too cheap really.
The Xsara would have to be 1.4 TU engine, the 1.9 XUD (either NA or TD) is just too expensive to insure. I like Xsaras as they are just essentialy cheap 306s.
I am 26 and all my mates are into cars, I just don't want a modern Lada D.
The Persona is just too old really to bother with, quite a bit of a nasty car to drive I have bene told too, handeling is important, again the Primera would fit this bill perfectly. I reckon I could get an N reg one with FSH for around £700 which should turn out to be a very good car.
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I understand about the Lada comment -- I just thought that as this was to be a banger/runabout you may not especially care -- and Daewoo have a horrible image, even if the cars themselves aren't as bad as they are made out (especially the newer ones).
It's not so much that the far-East cars were poor for safety, it was just that they were (and still are) typically 2-3 years behind the Europeans on this score. So Ford/Vauxhall/Citroen etc were selling 'deathtraps' up until around 1995-96; the Japanese caught up around 1998-9 and the Koreans finally a year or two later.
All that said, I'm not going to convince you so I'll stop now. The Primera is in my opinion an almost ideal compromise at this price point; reliable but common and British-made so parts reasonable, good to drive (excellent in fact -- FAR in advance of an Escort or Fiesta of that era), engines capable of covering massive distances and good enough that people do have some respect for them (I'd say their image is better than Vauxhall's among people who are car-savvy).
If it isn't too big, I'd see about one TBH. One thing to remember though -- these engines are VERY quiet at idle (though they are a bit gruff when pushed) -- if the (petrol) car you are looking at is not almost totally silent at idle when warm (i.e. you only hear the belts and a slight thrum from the exhaust) -- walk away.
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My next door neighbour has got a 12 year old 1.3 Fiesta and she says it goes like a bomb, dunno if thats a good recommendation or what.
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Thanks Jase, that is very helpful as I never know what sounds a normal on what engine, this is why I keep going back to the Fiesta because I know what each engine should sound like.
There is sadly no Primeras on AT atm within my price range. I would assume the older 1992-1996 Primera was quite safe and most of them came with ABS as standard. The 1996 model might be a little bit too big.
Sorry if it seems I am not taking peoples advice, I am, I now have 3 different cars to consider I would not have done otherwise. It is pitty the Leon was so out of my budget, but I this time next year when I have more money to spend they are on my wish list.
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OK, here's some more experiences (from Primeras and Nissans in general of the era -- they all shared similar vices and virtues):
Gearchange -- should be light and precise. Reverse is synchro'd, so should not crunch unless forced. A little bit of overrun whine in 2nd is normal, as is a little bit of minor clutch/transmission bearing grumble from time to time (audible because the soundproofing on these isn't as good as some other cars of its size -- Japanese automakers rely on quiet mechanicals rather than loads of foam everywhere).
Engine -- as said before, very quiet at idle, bit a second or so of clatter is nothing to worry about on startup; the chain can rattle a little bit while the oil circulates on higher milers, but this should only be for less than a second. Make absolutely sure that when you get the oil changed, you get the engine flushed at least once a year.
Suspension -- multilink, and the odd clonk is to be expected -- but only the odd one. Definitely no rattles.
Electrics -- should all work. This is a Japanese car, the electrics should not fail, period.
Drive -- roadholding is fantastic, steering precise but a little bit light, should go round corners with next to no body roll. Turning circle is not fantastic -- bank on a 5-point turn on a narrow road ;)
Interior -- plasticky but hard wearing. Should not have any issues here. The 1999- cars are much nicer inside with higher quality materials (better than a Vectra or Mondeo of the same period). Stupidly, Nissan went back to the plastic on the 2002 car, go figure.
Hope this helps.
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Thanks, these primeras are making a lot of sense now just need to check the insurance (I hate doing that it is so boring).
What about smoke on these at startup?
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I've never seen smoke on startup -- at all.
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Insurance is stupidly expensive :( Oh well it is a consideration for when I get no claims built up.
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D'oh. Shame that.
You want cheap insurance -- what about a 1l Seat Ibiza?
Yes I know it's slow but insurance group 1 on a well-built car can't be bad.
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Not seen any for sale, seen a 1.0 Polo. I can afford the 1.4, its still £30 a momth cheaper than the Primera. Basiclaly smaller cars cost me around £60 a month to insure, larger ones are £100, I just cannot afford the extra £40.
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I understand -- I'm OK because cars rarely cost me more than about £350 a year, sometimes as low as £250. It would have been less if I hadn't wrapped my Accent round a lamppost ;)
There are a couple on ebay, but I'm not sure where you are: 190254304986 and 360079801227. If you look for "Seat Ibiza MPi" that's the one you're after.
You'll be slitting your wrists though with only 50BHP on tap....
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I understand -- I'm OK because cars rarely cost me more than about £350 a year sometimes as low as £250. It would have been less if I hadn't wrapped my Accent round a lamppost ;) There are a couple on ebay but I'm not sure where you are: 190254304986 and 360079801227. If you look for "Seat Ibiza MPi" that's the one you're after.
I've also given these a thought. What does the "MPi" mean?
You'll be slitting your wrists though with only 50BHP on tap....
What do you mean? On Insurance?
Thanks,
Luke.
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I've also given these a thought. What does the "MPi" mean?
Multipoint injection
>> You'll be slitting your wrists though with only 50BHP on tap.... What do you mean? On Insurance?
No just the speed of it (Or lack of!)
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