Collision in private car park? - scott808
My car collided with another while in the private car park of my flats. The car park is signed as "private residents only" and warns that wheel clamping is in operation. The person I collided with was not a resident.

The incident happened while I was reversing out of the section of the car park from my garage, and happened as I reversed out from a gap between two walls into the main car park. I had checked that the gap was clear first by reversing with full view of the gap by looking over my shoulder, then the side mirrors, and then the rear view mirror which is the mirror I was looking in when we hit each other.

My car was about three feet out from behind the wall, his car three feet across the exit from my garage area. He was intending to pull right across the exit and park blocking it. I didn't see his car and hit it while I was reversing as the front end of his car was too low to see in the rear view mirror. There could of only been a few seconds between either of us seeing each other. As I didn't see him I don't know how long it took him to break or how fast he was going.

My car received some damage to the bumper. His the wing is dented.

Can either of us claim of each others insurance while on private land...mine being third party? And does he have any right to claim after he's driven onto it without permission? And who do you think is responsible? And also does the highway code still apply? And what way if not by insurance can money be claimed for the damages?
Collision in private car park? - Ian (Cape Town)
>>I didn't see his car and hit it while I
was reversing as the front end of his car was too low to see in
the rear view mirror. There could of only been a few seconds between either of
us seeing each other. As I didn't see him I don't know how long it
took him to break or how fast he was going.


Ok, replace the word CAR with "3 yr old toddler".

Don't mean to be facetious, but that's the standard you have to adopt.

It seems your parking area is pretty badly designed from a driver's point of view- might I suggest:
1) convex mirrors in certain danger areas?
2) Use of hazard lights when reversing?
3) Open all windows when reversing so you may hear the other bloke?

Sorry to hear about your incident.
But refer to my original sentence, above.

Collision in private car park? - scott808
People back out of garages... Its not a safe area. Your right though I am being extra carful now though.
Collision in private car park? - Ian (Cape Town)
The biggest problem, scott, is that we all get into a 'comfort zone' in our daily tasks.
Yes, i have the same problem, reversing out of my gate, making a cursory check BECAUSE NOBODY EVER COMES DOWN MY ROAD AT 5:15am!

Until they do, of course!



Collision in private car park? - Alanovich
The biggest problem scott is that we all get into a 'comfort zone' in our
daily tasks.
Yes i have the same problem reversing out of my gate making a cursory check
BECAUSE NOBODY EVER COMES DOWN MY ROAD AT 5:15am!
Until they do of course!

That's exactly how my father was killed on his motorbike. He was on his way to his shift job at a factory at 5am, and someone reversed out of his drive without looking. Knocked him off, panicked, didn't stop, and drove over his chest. Car driver was amazed someone was there at that time of the morning................

I have a rule of thumb never to leave my car in such a way that would necessitate reversing it out on to a road.
Collision in private car park? - Fullchat
Other car driver has a claim against you/insurers for damage to their vehicle. Easy to pursue.
You may have a civil claim against other party for civil trespass depending on the circumstances. Much more difficult to pursue. You would not be able to weigh one off against the other.
Collision in private car park? - Manatee
Other car driver has a claim against you/insurers for damage to their vehicle. Easy to
pursue.
You may have a civil claim against other party for civil trespass depending on the
circumstances. Much more difficult to pursue. You would not be able to weigh one off
against the other.


Are they not both civil claims? And doesn't liability depend on the extent to which the OP (or the other bloke) has been negligent?

The problem will be in establishing negligence unless the admitted facts speak for themselves.
Collision in private car park? - TedCrilly
Ah........ the old private land/insurance question?? Consider this, if your car was stolen off your (private) drive in the middle of the night or from an ASDA carpark while you were in there doing a Big-Shop.......would you still expect your insurance company to stump-up??.........Hope this answers your question.

Fill in the claims form, send it off to your insurance company and let them fight it out.........its what you are paying them for.

The fact he was trespassing is a seperate issue.
Collision in private car park? - scott808
The thing I don't get here though is that you don't need insurance, a license, or an mot to drive a vehicle on fully private land. I doubt you even need all the mirrors to be on whatever vehicle your driving. So why could he claim of off my insurance, wouldn't they only pay up on a public highway?
Collision in private car park? - Stuartli
>>..or from an ASDA car park...>>

An Asda car park is an area regularly used by motorists and therefore comes under the Road Traffic Act; this revised view of "private" land used regularly by motorists, such as supermarket parking areas, came into effect in the early 1990s.

I would, however, partially support TedCrilly in that I wouldn't involve insurance companies, but settle up after the other driver involved has produced at least two, preferably three, quotes for repairs.
Collision in private car park? - FotheringtonThomas
Can either of us claim of each others insurance while on private land...mine being third
party?


Yes, of course. By 3rd. pty. I assume you mean you've 3rd. party (only) insurance.
And does he have any right to claim after he's driven onto it without permission?


Almost certainly.
And who do you think is responsible?


I don't understand the scenario as explained.
And also does the highway code still apply?


Not sure how HC is relevant..
And what way if not by insurance can money be claimed for the damages?


You (or he) could agree to pay the other.
Collision in private car park? - scott808
...Right well by 3rd party yes I meant fire theft not an all round comprehensive one that might have a clause for paying out while the car is off of the public highway, as insurance isn't required then? I basically want him to have to be in a position where he has to take me to court if either of us can take action. I can live with the damage to my car as its not visible. And I don't want to lose my no claims.

"HC" well its used in accident claims to decide who's at fault. I was off the public highway, so does it apply? I'm thinking not. Also it says that you should always try to reverse into a parking place, so I'm thinking it maybe could put the blame onto me as I was reversing out.
Collision in private car park? - jimbano


That's NOT very nice of you is it.. How would YOU feel if it was the other way round and he was attempting to get out of paying for your damage.. You have already admitted YOU hit him, so do the honourable thing and own up for your actions.




If your quite happy to drive about with your own car the way it is, why not offer to pay for the other driver's damage without involving insurance. This way could be cheaper in the long run.
Collision in private car park? - scott808
Well hes where he shouldn't of been, hes driven off of the public highway onto my property into the blind spot as I'm reversing on my private property. I couldn't have stopped even if I had seen him. And I'm willing to let it go. I want to know how/why I have to pay, if I do, if my insurance won't payout, I'd like a court to see who's at fault.

Don't say its my fault because of that :)
Collision in private car park? - scott808
The difference of a split second of his car not being behind mine and then only just being (inchs) the one that's hit (not that I agree), his not being the one that hits my rear side, shouldn't change who's fault it is, especially when hes not where hes supposed to be. And planning on blocking my exit with his car, which he did!
Collision in private car park? - scott808
And then what if he had driven into the back of my car... Would I still be accused of being at fault because I'm reversing? I think how this goes isn't it...
Collision in private car park? - Manatee
If you were negligent you were at fault - if not you weren't. You could argue he was negligent in ignoring signs and being in the act of blocking an access that while it was in use.

As already stated, proof is the problem if it's disputed. Have you told him you're prepared to leave it but you hold him responsible?
Collision in private car park? - scott808
Well the damage to mine is the back of the bumper some crumpling. Its not visible and doesn't effect anything. I'd prefer to not go to the garage. And there's also Karma in that (excuse the pun).
Collision in private car park? - scott808
Misread that... No I didn't. I said I didn't know who's fault it was at first. We exchanged details. He started excusing. I said I thought it was his for coming across behind me and being in my car park across my exit at the last second.
Collision in private car park? - jimbano
As stated earlier, what if it had been a child that you hit and killed.. would you have then stated that the child should not have been there so the police can't take any action against you.

The other driver may have been lost or making a delivery or never even saw the signs that you say are posted.
Does it make it right that he should have his car damaged, albeit accidently damaged.

I'm not saying that you deliberatley hit him.. Accident's happen..All i'm saying is you have stated that YOU did hit him.. so why not own up and sort it out like a man..
Again imagine how YOU would feel if it was the other way round.

If you are asking people on here how to get out of any potential claim/costs, then i think you are not going to like what you will be reading.. but enjoy it anyway..
Collision in private car park? - scott808
So always going to be my fault because I'm traveling in reverse? Like I said people back out of garages, people use reverse. Throw a toddler in the way, and well....
Collision in private car park? - jimbano
I didn't see his car and hit it while I
was reversing as the front end of his car was too low to see in
the rear view mirror. There could of only been a few seconds between either of
us seeing each other. As I didn't see him I don't know how long it
took him to break or how fast he was going.

>>>>

These are YOUR words.

I can see that your upset by this minor accident and it should make you a more aware driver, but the way you have stated how things happened, imo, you are negligent, therfore liable and should do the right thing.

Edited by jimbano on 18/10/2008 at 16:12

Collision in private car park? - scott808
No I'm not upset. I didn't get half my answers. Anyway, so because I hit him, it my fault even with him traveling into the blind spot with him being where he wasn't supposed to be.

Well there we go.. My fault.. I'm told.. See whos property he's driven on..
Collision in private car park? - the swiss tony
Scott, do YOU own the flats?
was the other party visiting residents?
Collision in private car park? - scott808
Tony what do you want from me ;)
Collision in private car park? - the swiss tony
lol...knowt really Scott....the point im trying to make is,even on private land, other people do have some rights to use it, unless you are the owner, and have it gated.

some years ago I came home to find someone using my (open plan) driveway as a turning place!

seriously though, I do think you will have too chalk this one up to experience.
I will say though, you do have one up on the rest of us, in as much as you know the plan of your parking area, all we others can do is try and imagine the positions of walls, cars, etc - you never know if we saw it we may totally agree with your view!
Collision in private car park? - jimbano
No I'm not upset. I didn't get half my answers. Anyway so because I hit
him it my fault even with him traveling into the blind spot with him being
where he wasn't supposed to be.
Well there we go.. My fault.. I'm told.. See whos property he's driven on..


As stated earlier, i don't think your going to enjoy the replies that will no doubt be coming your way... especially as you do not seem prepared to accept that YOU hit him.. your argument is that it was private land so you believe this make any claim exempt.. but imagine if he hit you in tesco car park... you would want him to pay..

I'm no lawyer but do you honestly believe that a court would find in your favour simply because he was "tresspassing"... I don't.. plus the costs and risks of going to court are far greater than any current costs that you may incur if you settled with the other driver, or as posted earlier, why not exchange ins details and let them fight it out.
Collision in private car park? - the swiss tony
Scott, could you please post where it is you live?
I for one wish to stay well away!

<< There could of only been a FEW SECONDS between either of
us seeing each other. As I didn't see him I DON'T KNOW how LONG it
took him to break or how fast he was going. >.


I have highlighted the reasons I wish to stay away - when reversing you should be aware of what's happening behind you 110% of the time!

please do the decent thing and accept responsibility, OK its private land, but as someone else has said, thank goodness it was a car, and not a child.
Collision in private car park? - scott808
I'm trapped here now defending myself aren't I ;) I used all my mirrors Tony. I could see it was all clear before going to the mirrors only a few moments before. Theres two walls a cars gap in between. I'm doing a couple of miles an hour. How fasts he going...

Please tell me thats not how you would reverse out of a garage?

Edited by Webmaster on 19/10/2008 at 00:46

Collision in private car park? - scott808
Say I'm new to driving...I see this, whos fault it is, because I hit him, as a way to just square things off, seconds, inchs between, him traveling forward me in reverse, with blind spots and mirrors to check between. I could have gone out forwards, front end sticking out, he pops out, I pop out with less viss, he's able to break a second before. Hes driven onto my front lawn (of course I'm going to exaggerate).

I'm sorry if that messes with etiquette, I'm sorry if the highway code doesn't apply, or the usual insurance.
Collision in private car park? - gordonbennet
Scott, i think you may have have to just accept this is one of those situations where by that stroke of bad luck someone has appeared at the very moment you looked away.

Its happened to all of us at some time, SWMBO had a very similar thing in a supermarket car park, in a way it could have been 50/50, but she felt that she was at fault, possibly the same as you, so she told the senior sitizen to get his car repaired and send her the bill, which he did and she promptly paid up, surprising the old chap a bit.

If you feel to blame, pay up, if you genuinly feel not to blame don't, only you really know where the blame lies.

Collision in private car park? - Pendlebury
All UK insurance will cover you anywhere - private or otherwise.
If your car gets broke into whilst on your drive - which is private property - it is still insured.
There will be no problems using the insurance company.
Collision in private car park? - concrete
Hello Scott, sorry for your situation, really tricky to sort who,what,when,why etc. Either take care of your own damages or involve the insurance companies and let them sort it out from your statements. In any event draw a line under it and move on or it will drive you nuts. Can I suggest in future that you reverse into your parking space which will enable you to drive out with a clearer view. Also approach the building owner or parking company to review the area with more safety in mind. regards Concrete
Collision in private car park? - Bill Payer
I don't think that there's a legal requirement to give the other driver your insurance details, only your name and address.

He would then presumeably pursue you for the repair bill, which you can refuse to pay and he would have to take you to court. Of course he might claim on his insurance if fully comp and then it would be a mighty insurance company chasing you.

Once the action was underway, your own insurance company would not be impressed if you suddenly asked them to stand behind you.
Collision in private car park? - Stuartli
Whether you involve insurance companies or not, you are very unlikely to stand a chance of being successful because of your own explanation of how the accident happened.

It clearly indicates that you were at fault - hard to accept I know, but inescapable.
Collision in private car park? - scott808
Just came back to tell you all that you can't claim on car insurance for an accident when off of the public highway unless fully comp. And no one can claim off of yours, or you of them.

So moral of the story... Don't park in private car parks if you want to be able to claim of off someone else's insurance if you collide and you think its their fault. Another good idea is to put people of off parking illegally in your car park as you'll have to try to take them through the courts if you want to get a penny back for damage caused by them!
Collision in private car park? - Rattle
I thought a private car park was classed as a public road if its accesible to the public?
Collision in private car park? - the swiss tony
Im pretty sure it is Rattle, Police seem to think it is, remember this thread? www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=69502
Collision in private car park? - Armitage Shanks {p}
I do not practice this but I understand that one is recommended to reverse into parking spaces (one's drive) and/or one's garage, thus reducing the likelihood of events like those described above.
Collision in private car park? - Pugugly
Rattle & ST,


Whether its a Road Traffic Act Road is site specific - there's no general answer.
Collision in private car park? - sierraman
That is what I thought,not really worth bothering anymore though,he has only ever posted on this thread,I think we of seen the last of him :)
 

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