Well out of time, I'm afraid. We all suffer from design errors made by various makers in an assorted range of products. It's a pity when it involves the biggest bit of the most expensive machinery most people own.
If the car's OK and worth it, get stuck into finding a decent second hand engine. Don't waste your time and patience trying to obtain redress - just attack the problem instead.
659.
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72000 miles. 8 yeras? Are Toyotas not designed to last longer?.....well perhaps not!
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The make certainly determines the odds of encountering problems, but there are never guarantees. My friend's old Celica VVTLi 190 had had two replacement gearboxes (the first lasted 2000 miles and was found to have been incorrectly assembled at the factory!), four cats, most of its suspension replaced, and heaven knows how many software updates at half this mileage, and still didn't run/drive right. Had it not been for a truly fantastic dealer, he'd have been driven to despair by that car.
Edited by DP on 02/10/2008 at 21:26
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This is a known problem on early VVt-i engines. Toyota did not issue a recall because not every engine develops the problem. My Avensis (02) did at 54K and 4 and a half years. The oil consumption was monitored by my local dealer who, once approval was given by Toyota UK, replaced the entire engine. This is standard practice. Have a look at the Toyota owners forum; you will find lots of similar stories to support you in your situation. There is a proviso though, a full Toyota service history is required.
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My neighbour got a new engine for his Avensis VVTi. He was pleasantly surprised and praised his dealers attitude. Think it had done over 48,000 miles and was 4 year old or so.
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I have to say that I'm going to pull a Mapmaker here (could that become an HJ catchphrase I wonder) and say that I would not bother with the new engine route, if you cannot get redress from Toyota.
If the fault is a design issue there is no guarantee that any replacement secondhand engine would not perform in exactly the same way as this one.
Given that the car is probably now worth no more than about £1500 or so, and a replacement engine is a big job and you'd be looking at the thick end of £700 to replace it, I don't see the point.
Keep a stock of oil, experiment with slightly thicker oil in the hope that this might partially stem the problem (it's going to be burned off anyway so no lasting damage to the engine) and learn to live with it, or fill it up to the top line and sell in the local paper. Plenty of other decent s/h cars around.
Edited by jase1 on 03/10/2008 at 14:08
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>>Keep a stock of oil, experiment with slightly thicker oil in the hope that this might partially stem the problem (it's going to be burned off anyway so no lasting damage to the engine) and learn to live with it
This is what I would be doing, especially considering your low annual mileage. Run it for a bit and then stick it on ebay. Someone will buy it for a reasonable amount and then you can start again. I certainly wouldnt be spending £2K on a new engine or be fitting a second hand one. Its just not worth it on a 8 year old car worth less than a grand trade in and not a lot more private.
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I'm assuming the problem to be oil burning past the pistons, a few years ago we would have whipped the motor out and dropped a set of new rings onto the pistons and probably had a clean up of the top end at the same time, ground in the valves and new valve stem seals, headgasket etc.
Couple hundred quid and a weekends work?
Is it not as simple as that any more?
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Tsk, tsk, gb, you'll have us repairing alternators and starter motors next.
Then it will be rebuilding gearboxes - thin end of the wedge I call it.
To be serious for a moment, at one time you could get pistons with an extra oil control ring for engines that were too young to smoke.
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The very fact that the OP is wanting to get Toyota to sort the problem says to me that they probably don't have the time or resources to do the job themselves.
A full weekend spent, and access to a ramp/garage/tools etc etc. Might as well take it to the local backstreet for a job as big as this.
I know from my perspective that I would have to do all this by the roadside -- not going to happen.
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Jase, i've done dozens of jobs like that in the past by lifting the engine out on the road in front of my house and humping the lump into my garden /shed/ garage too small to get a car in/full of junk as usual..;)
Heaviest lump i took out and reringed/shelled was a Austin2200 land crab, any old mechs will know too well just how heavy that engine and box was, my lifting hoist sank several inches into the tarmac.
Even a small back street garage will charge many hundreds of pounds labour to do this relatively straightforward job.
Ifithelps, when we were younger men we didn't have the money to pay others to do those sorts of things, so needs must, and i think we may be returning to those days of fixing instead of replacing soon if this downturn continues for several years, which i believe will happen, the younger chaps may have to do the same as we did and start learning pdq, and get their hands dirty, there's been times when the bath has taken weeks to get clean again after some of the jobs i've undertaken...bring back memories..?
By the way, some things we probably wouldn't do any more, my rear shoes on the super minx became oil contaminated after the rear axle seals went, soaked the shoes in petrol, set fire to em, good as new..;)...someone might start another thread on that, things we have done but wouldn't again, another bodgers delight thread.
For the OP's problem i would be very surprised if Toyo would entertain after this amount of time.
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One issue to bear in mind is that even of Toyota offered to pay, say, 50% then the official Toyota dealer solution (new engine?) would probably cost many thousands of pounds.
I was miffed to have to pay £250 for work on daughter's 4yr old Ibiza but none of our other cars have needed anything other than routine servicing for many years, and if you've had good runs with Toyota's in the past then amortising the cost over all the years you've spent nothing brings the cost into perspective.
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gb,
Going back to the way we used to repair everything and replace as the very last resort may happen.
But all we hear at the moment is "it's ten years old and not worth spending 50p on".
Part of the reason is I'm sure parts are now much more expensive in relation to cars.
When I changed the engine on a Cortina in the mid-1970s, I'm sure the bits - short engine and reuse all ancilliaries - were nowhere near the value of the car.
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I took this off topic, sorry OP, so i'm going to start a thread about this repairing subject...do i hear groans???
Good luck with your engine Halla.
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jase 1..You are correct in what you say,I do not have the means/resources to do this job and I have also weighed up the costs involved in relation to the value of the car.
I bought this car,which is spotless & immaluculate inside and out and happy with otherwise,with a view to keeping it for a few years hassel free driving. I do not accept that I should be presnetd with such a repair bill or ditch it after such a short time.
Some have said including Toyota dealer,...'8 years old'?!...mmmmm...as if it were an antique,to me 8 yrs is not that old for a car of this calibre.Cost £15000 new and now worth a fraction of that complete with this problem(yes,I realize value falls as soon as you drive out of the garage)Not all of us are in the position to buy new/nearly new all the time.
I am also concerned as time goes by,if I keep the car(with a bulk oil purchase!) what will happen in the future,this problem is sure to worsen with what result?!.....
My arguement is no, if's & buts,the fact of the matter is...this problem WOULD NOT & SHOULD NOT have arisen if not for Toyotla's design fault.! They should take some responsibilty.But we shall see,I may be completely wrong,but I do wish more people would complain and challenge these organisations and not just give up on matters.
We shall see...................
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Some have said including Toyota dealer ...'8 years old'?!...mmmmm...as if it were an antique to me 8 yrs is not that old for a car of this calibre.Cost £15000 new and now worth a fraction of that complete with this problem(yes I realize value falls as soon as you drive out of the garage)Not all of us are in the position to buy new/nearly new all the time.
I know it doesn't help, but plenty of cars are scrapped around this age.
I know a guy who scrapped a Fiat Punto (sold it for spares -- no longer insured) at 7 years old. The ECU had packed up, the clutch was worn out, the gearbox synchro was no good in 1st/2nd and the head gasket was weeping. The cost of repairing all these faults was more than the car was worth. He'd bought it at 6 months old and had it serviced at main dealer its whole life.
It hurt to have to sell it for £300 but that's the luck of the draw unfortunately. Only a minority of cars make it to their 11th or 12th birthday. 8 years old is too young, I agree, but I think you should be realistic and move on rather than chasing this one.
As I say, in order to fix this fault properly, unless there are replacement parts that can be used to fix this fault reliably the only real option is a brand new engine. That simply is not viable when the car is this age.
Used cars have never been cheaper. Trade it in and get something a bit bigger that has been hammered value-wise by the taxation scenario.
You'll probably be able to trade up to something 4 or 5 years newer for the cost of a replacement second-hand engine at a small garage. Bear in mind that you do not need to tell the dealer that your engine is shot -- let them find that out for themselves.
Edited by jase1 on 04/10/2008 at 16:44
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I have just put down the phone from Toyota customer realations I have a 2002 Avensis ,it used a lot of oil which i had been told was a fault of the model/ Last saturday week i was coming along M23 when there was a cloud of black smoke a mettalic clang on the tarmac and my engine died. I was extreamly lucky in so far as the motorway was relativly quiet and i managed to steer to hard shoulder safely .I was subsequantly towed home by RAC The opinion was that timing belt had snapped. I did not know that Toyota had an issue with these cars untill i started to look for another engine and found the comments on here and such like sites. I therefore rang Toyota today and was told 'Hard luck mate we wont do anything for you'' if not quite in those words . They have an extended guarentee which coverscars that are not affected Seeemingly the problem was fixed in 2003 and if you havent registered your complaint by last year you have lost out on any compensation
My point is that this could have happened on M23 when very busy and i could now be in a coffin along with other innocent road users this is a safety issue and should be treated as such by Toyota and VOSA . let everyone that feels the same comment on here and maybe someone will take notice
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A question that needs asking...had the timing belt been replaced as per the maintenance schedule?
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Another question that needs asking:
When was the oil last checked? (if using a lot, it should be weekly).
And when last serviced.?
And the mileage it has done?
Oops I can't count! :-)
Edited by madf on 02/06/2010 at 10:16
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I'm trying with Toyota GB too, I only became aware of the problem at teh last service when the Toyota mechanic told me; my 51 plate 1.8 has always been demanding when it comes to oil consumption; when I brought it up years ago the dealer told me it was proabbly a leak, he never told me about the issue (what a surprise!)
let me know how you get on.
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If you're burning that much oil then it must be getting past your piston rings, they may be broken, or, more likely stuck in their grooves.
In the the good old days this could be fixed by removing the spark plugs and pouring half a cup full of redex into each cylinder, leave overnight, crank the engine next day with rags over the plug holes to catch the excess redex that will be pumped out. Plugs back in, start up and go for a drive, after a mile the considerable amount if smoke from your exhaust will clear, and hopefully your piston rings freed off to do their job again.
It's well worth a try, I've done it many times in the past, sometimes you need to repeat the operation every few months, but on low usage perhaps not.
Good luck
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