VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - halla
2 years ago I purchased for a substanbtial sum, a Toyota Corolla GLS W reg.It has now 72000 on the clock,myself having driven 14000 in the past 2 years.It has started in the last 12 months,to burn oil excessively(4 1/2 ltrs in approx 8 weeks). I now know from mechanics and my own research,that this is due to a Toyota design fault on these engines. I have taken the complaint to my local(UK) Toyota dealer who basically do not want to know.Toyota (quietly-doing no recall that I know of) extended the warranty to 7 yrs or 112000 miles and as my car is 8 yrs old,they will rectify the problem. I have been quoted £2000 UPWARDS for a partial replacement engine.

This is my 3rd Corolla,one I owned with no problems for 9 years,therefor,was happy to pay the extra premium for reliability ,or so I thought. I did not expect to be faced with such a bill (which is beyond my means) like this, to rectify a problem that should bnot be there in the 1st place,if it were not for Toyota's bad design.

I have been advised by Trading Standards,to refer the matter back to the dealer who I bought it from.This I intend to do.Also,I will be writing to Toyota's MD.

Has anyone faced a similar sitiation and what was the outcome?
Do I have any chance of compensation or I prefer the car to be repaired,as I am happy with it otherwise.
I do not see why I should pay the price for the mistakes of others and Toyota should take some responsibilty!!
Pleeeeaaases any help at all............

Edited by Pugugly on 02/10/2008 at 20:24

VVTi engine burning oil - ifithelps
Eight years old and 86,000 miles?

Can't see how you can reasonably expect anything from Toyota.

But to use a North East phrase: "Shy bairns get nowt."
VVTi engine burning oil - 659FBE
Well out of time, I'm afraid. We all suffer from design errors made by various makers in an assorted range of products. It's a pity when it involves the biggest bit of the most expensive machinery most people own.

If the car's OK and worth it, get stuck into finding a decent second hand engine. Don't waste your time and patience trying to obtain redress - just attack the problem instead.

659.
VVTi engine burning oil - halla
72000 miles. 8 yeras? Are Toyotas not designed to last longer?.....well perhaps not!
VVTi engine burning oil - DP
The make certainly determines the odds of encountering problems, but there are never guarantees. My friend's old Celica VVTLi 190 had had two replacement gearboxes (the first lasted 2000 miles and was found to have been incorrectly assembled at the factory!), four cats, most of its suspension replaced, and heaven knows how many software updates at half this mileage, and still didn't run/drive right. Had it not been for a truly fantastic dealer, he'd have been driven to despair by that car.


Edited by DP on 02/10/2008 at 21:26

VVTi engine burning oil - mlj
This is a known problem on early VVt-i engines. Toyota did not issue a recall because not every engine develops the problem. My Avensis (02) did at 54K and 4 and a half years. The oil consumption was monitored by my local dealer who, once approval was given by Toyota UK, replaced the entire engine. This is standard practice. Have a look at the Toyota owners forum; you will find lots of similar stories to support you in your situation. There is a proviso though, a full Toyota service history is required.
VVTi engine burning oil - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}
My neighbour got a new engine for his Avensis VVTi. He was pleasantly surprised and praised his dealers attitude. Think it had done over 48,000 miles and was 4 year old or so.
VVTi engine burning oil - jase1
I have to say that I'm going to pull a Mapmaker here (could that become an HJ catchphrase I wonder) and say that I would not bother with the new engine route, if you cannot get redress from Toyota.

If the fault is a design issue there is no guarantee that any replacement secondhand engine would not perform in exactly the same way as this one.

Given that the car is probably now worth no more than about £1500 or so, and a replacement engine is a big job and you'd be looking at the thick end of £700 to replace it, I don't see the point.

Keep a stock of oil, experiment with slightly thicker oil in the hope that this might partially stem the problem (it's going to be burned off anyway so no lasting damage to the engine) and learn to live with it, or fill it up to the top line and sell in the local paper. Plenty of other decent s/h cars around.

Edited by jase1 on 03/10/2008 at 14:08

VVTi engine burning oil - bbroomlea{P}
>>Keep a stock of oil, experiment with slightly thicker oil in the hope that this might partially stem the problem (it's going to be burned off anyway so no lasting damage to the engine) and learn to live with it

This is what I would be doing, especially considering your low annual mileage. Run it for a bit and then stick it on ebay. Someone will buy it for a reasonable amount and then you can start again. I certainly wouldnt be spending £2K on a new engine or be fitting a second hand one. Its just not worth it on a 8 year old car worth less than a grand trade in and not a lot more private.

VVTi engine burning oil - gordonbennet
I'm assuming the problem to be oil burning past the pistons, a few years ago we would have whipped the motor out and dropped a set of new rings onto the pistons and probably had a clean up of the top end at the same time, ground in the valves and new valve stem seals, headgasket etc.
Couple hundred quid and a weekends work?
Is it not as simple as that any more?
VVTi engine burning oil - ifithelps
Tsk, tsk, gb, you'll have us repairing alternators and starter motors next.

Then it will be rebuilding gearboxes - thin end of the wedge I call it.

To be serious for a moment, at one time you could get pistons with an extra oil control ring for engines that were too young to smoke.
VVTi engine burning oil - jase1
The very fact that the OP is wanting to get Toyota to sort the problem says to me that they probably don't have the time or resources to do the job themselves.

A full weekend spent, and access to a ramp/garage/tools etc etc. Might as well take it to the local backstreet for a job as big as this.

I know from my perspective that I would have to do all this by the roadside -- not going to happen.
VVTi engine burning oil - gordonbennet
Jase, i've done dozens of jobs like that in the past by lifting the engine out on the road in front of my house and humping the lump into my garden /shed/ garage too small to get a car in/full of junk as usual..;)
Heaviest lump i took out and reringed/shelled was a Austin2200 land crab, any old mechs will know too well just how heavy that engine and box was, my lifting hoist sank several inches into the tarmac.
Even a small back street garage will charge many hundreds of pounds labour to do this relatively straightforward job.


Ifithelps, when we were younger men we didn't have the money to pay others to do those sorts of things, so needs must, and i think we may be returning to those days of fixing instead of replacing soon if this downturn continues for several years, which i believe will happen, the younger chaps may have to do the same as we did and start learning pdq, and get their hands dirty, there's been times when the bath has taken weeks to get clean again after some of the jobs i've undertaken...bring back memories..?
By the way, some things we probably wouldn't do any more, my rear shoes on the super minx became oil contaminated after the rear axle seals went, soaked the shoes in petrol, set fire to em, good as new..;)...someone might start another thread on that, things we have done but wouldn't again, another bodgers delight thread.

For the OP's problem i would be very surprised if Toyo would entertain after this amount of time.
VVTi engine burning oil - Bill Payer
One issue to bear in mind is that even of Toyota offered to pay, say, 50% then the official Toyota dealer solution (new engine?) would probably cost many thousands of pounds.

I was miffed to have to pay £250 for work on daughter's 4yr old Ibiza but none of our other cars have needed anything other than routine servicing for many years, and if you've had good runs with Toyota's in the past then amortising the cost over all the years you've spent nothing brings the cost into perspective.
VVTi engine burning oil - ifithelps
gb,

Going back to the way we used to repair everything and replace as the very last resort may happen.

But all we hear at the moment is "it's ten years old and not worth spending 50p on".

Part of the reason is I'm sure parts are now much more expensive in relation to cars.

When I changed the engine on a Cortina in the mid-1970s, I'm sure the bits - short engine and reuse all ancilliaries - were nowhere near the value of the car.
VVTi engine burning oil - gordonbennet
I took this off topic, sorry OP, so i'm going to start a thread about this repairing subject...do i hear groans???

Good luck with your engine Halla.
VVTi engine burning oil - halla
jase 1..You are correct in what you say,I do not have the means/resources to do this job and I have also weighed up the costs involved in relation to the value of the car.

I bought this car,which is spotless & immaluculate inside and out and happy with otherwise,with a view to keeping it for a few years hassel free driving. I do not accept that I should be presnetd with such a repair bill or ditch it after such a short time.
Some have said including Toyota dealer,...'8 years old'?!...mmmmm...as if it were an antique,to me 8 yrs is not that old for a car of this calibre.Cost £15000 new and now worth a fraction of that complete with this problem(yes,I realize value falls as soon as you drive out of the garage)Not all of us are in the position to buy new/nearly new all the time.
I am also concerned as time goes by,if I keep the car(with a bulk oil purchase!) what will happen in the future,this problem is sure to worsen with what result?!.....

My arguement is no, if's & buts,the fact of the matter is...this problem WOULD NOT & SHOULD NOT have arisen if not for Toyotla's design fault.! They should take some responsibilty.But we shall see,I may be completely wrong,but I do wish more people would complain and challenge these organisations and not just give up on matters.

We shall see...................
VVTi engine burning oil - jase1
Some have said including Toyota dealer ...'8 years old'?!...mmmmm...as if it were an antique to
me 8 yrs is not that old for a car of this calibre.Cost £15000 new
and now worth a fraction of that complete with this problem(yes I realize value falls
as soon as you drive out of the garage)Not all of us are in the
position to buy new/nearly new all the time.


I know it doesn't help, but plenty of cars are scrapped around this age.

I know a guy who scrapped a Fiat Punto (sold it for spares -- no longer insured) at 7 years old. The ECU had packed up, the clutch was worn out, the gearbox synchro was no good in 1st/2nd and the head gasket was weeping. The cost of repairing all these faults was more than the car was worth. He'd bought it at 6 months old and had it serviced at main dealer its whole life.

It hurt to have to sell it for £300 but that's the luck of the draw unfortunately. Only a minority of cars make it to their 11th or 12th birthday. 8 years old is too young, I agree, but I think you should be realistic and move on rather than chasing this one.

As I say, in order to fix this fault properly, unless there are replacement parts that can be used to fix this fault reliably the only real option is a brand new engine. That simply is not viable when the car is this age.

Used cars have never been cheaper. Trade it in and get something a bit bigger that has been hammered value-wise by the taxation scenario.

You'll probably be able to trade up to something 4 or 5 years newer for the cost of a replacement second-hand engine at a small garage. Bear in mind that you do not need to tell the dealer that your engine is shot -- let them find that out for themselves.

Edited by jase1 on 04/10/2008 at 16:44

VVTi engine burning oil - mayomike

I have just put down the phone from Toyota customer realations I have a 2002 Avensis ,it used a lot of oil which i had been told was a fault of the model/ Last saturday week i was coming along M23 when there was a cloud of black smoke a mettalic clang on the tarmac and my engine died. I was extreamly lucky in so far as the motorway was relativly quiet and i managed to steer to hard shoulder safely .I was subsequantly towed home by RAC The opinion was that timing belt had snapped. I did not know that Toyota had an issue with these cars untill i started to look for another engine and found the comments on here and such like sites. I therefore rang Toyota today and was told 'Hard luck mate we wont do anything for you'' if not quite in those words . They have an extended guarentee which coverscars that are not affected Seeemingly the problem was fixed in 2003 and if you havent registered your complaint by last year you have lost out on any compensation

My point is that this could have happened on M23 when very busy and i could now be in a coffin along with other innocent road users this is a safety issue and should be treated as such by Toyota and VOSA . let everyone that feels the same comment on here and maybe someone will take notice

VVTi engine burning oil - Steve Pearce

A question that needs asking...had the timing belt been replaced as per the maintenance schedule?

VVTi engine burning oil - madf

Another question that needs asking:

When was the oil last checked? (if using a lot, it should be weekly).

And when last serviced.?

And the mileage it has done?

Oops I can't count! :-)

Edited by madf on 02/06/2010 at 10:16

VVTi engine burning oil - Alfie's Dad

I'm trying with Toyota GB too, I only became aware of the problem at teh last service when the Toyota mechanic told me; my 51 plate 1.8 has always been demanding when it comes to oil consumption; when I brought it up years ago the dealer told me it was proabbly a leak, he never told me about the issue (what a surprise!)

let me know how you get on.

VVTi engine burning oil - dadbif
If you're burning that much oil then it must be getting past your piston rings, they may be broken, or, more likely stuck in their grooves.
In the the good old days this could be fixed by removing the spark plugs and pouring half a cup full of redex into each cylinder, leave overnight, crank the engine next day with rags over the plug holes to catch the excess redex that will be pumped out. Plugs back in, start up and go for a drive, after a mile the considerable amount if smoke from your exhaust will clear, and hopefully your piston rings freed off to do their job again.
It's well worth a try, I've done it many times in the past, sometimes you need to repeat the operation every few months, but on low usage perhaps not.
Good luck
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - L'escargot
With it being 8 years old, the easiest (and probably the cheapest) solution is just to buy cheap oil in bulk.
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - movilogo
Or sell the car? Toyota Corolla is still well known for its reliability and you can get a good price for it.

VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - Pendlebury
>>My argument is no, if's & buts,the fact of the matter is...this problem WOULD NOT & SHOULD NOT have arisen if not for Toyotla's design fault.! They should take some responsibility.<<

I can understand your frustration and I suppose it is easy for me to sit here typing stuff without facing the problem you are. I think you also have to keep this in context. I think Toyota were very fair about this and made a decision of replacing engines on cars to a certain value. After this it becomes completely uneconomical to repair the car. There are still plenty of European car makers that would challenge a warranty claim like this during the normal warranty period. Please correct me if I am wrong but I cannot ever recall a non-Japanese car maker extending the warranty period for design faults. For Toyota it is standard practice to do it for cars up to 5/7 years old. Nobody else would treat a customer this well. Having said that you have been hurt by this decision financially and you will be in a position to choose what make of car you purchase next time. Unfortunately it probably won't be a Toyota but be careful what you do end up with.
I also agree that we should complain more and if we did we may also have lemon laws but I do think there comes a point in the life of a car when the manufacturer can walk away.

VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - Bill Payer
They should take some responsibility.

As I pointed out earlier, it the "some" where you will have a problem.

Say they offer 50%? It *still* isn't worth fixing.
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - debonairzummerzetmillionaire
Halla:

I was in the same situation this time last year. I have a 1.4 VVTi (W/2000) Corrolla that had about 70k, always serviced by Toyota dealers. My father in law and a neighbour have both had Avensis with oil burning problems. Mine was just in the 7 year warranty when I reported it to the dealer, but out of the warranty by a month when the claim was made to Toyota GB. The dealers tend to greet the problem with mock astonishment in my experience, but came clean once I told them I knew of other cases. They offered to pay a third of the cost if I found approx. £2500. I informed Toyota GB I expected a car to last more than 70k without burning oil and they told me to take it or leave it. I bought my dad a Civic the other day, my neighbour replaced his Avensis with a Civic and my £2,500 will be going the same way. The British Motor Industry used the general public to roadtest its cars for design faults...I need say no more.

Runt.
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - astrabob
I agree that it is very disappointing that a car with a relatively low mileage has a major engine problem like this. (My last four cars have all gone to around 200k miles, and they were Ford, Peugeot and Vauxhall).

You can try a thicker oil, but this is only a temporary solution. The oil will ruin the catalyst, so it won't get through an MOT.

If the car looks good, just sell it through the local paper / autotrader / ebay.
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - grace
Just wanna find out, what did you do to get this sorted. I am now in the same situation and toyota dealer is asking me to pay 2500 for fixing the short engine. i dont think it is
worth it. My car is 8 yrs old and done 70k+. I would be very obliged if you could get back to me on the same at your earliest convenience. I think toyota should own this responsibility because it is a manufacturer problem.

many thanks
grace
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - Woodspeed
I know 2 cars, an Avensis and a Celica that had this problem. Loads of probs with Toyota and the dealers. The Avensis was 8 years old and 82k, so fair dos I suppose. They were using a 5/30 oil, and switched to a 5/40 and the oil consumption was reduced considerably to around 1000 miles on 1/2 litre. I would think that at the age and milage there is not a lot to lose if it keeps the car running for a year or 2 more.
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - cuthbert
The oil burning issue starts with about 40,000 miles on the clock
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - Avant
Agree with Woodspeed. In this situation (presumably the OP has resolved it one way or another by now) just keep topping up with oil and see how long it lasts without major expense - it may be longer than you expect.

In the late 1970s we got an ancient Triumph 1300 as a second car for about £400: it gradually developed a thirst for oil and settled at 100 miles per pint. But it kept going - started first time every time (with that famous starter motor that sounded like Hollywood sound effects for the fall of Babylon) and never let us down. Sold for about £200 two years later when I got a company car and SWMBO had the family car. Still a fond memory.
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - Saltrampen
Colleague at work with an avensis with the 1.8 VVi (W reg) had this problem. Again more than car was worth to repair, but as a regular customer at local Toyota dealer was offered a very generous trade in price on a second hand car they had on Forecourt. Probably once outside the extended warranty period, this maybe the best deal you can get. Also explains why 2 years ago, same dealer was very reluctant to sell me an 05 plate 1.8 Avensis.
Toyota dealers must hate these cars with the older VVTi engine. The thicker oil helps for a while, but from stories I have read and heard, problem comes back.
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - Phil F.
Hi,
I have just bought an Avensis 1.8,05reg,with only 15,000 on the clock,
I am wondering?:
When did Toyota finally sort this problem,hopefully before mine was manufactured!!
Apparently Toyota have extended warranty on Avensis to seven years for this problem only,will this still apply till 2012?
Although this has been discussed here and other places at some length-its mentioned in HJ,s report on this model also-I am surprised that a bigger issue has not been made of it
bearing in mind the recent well publicised,including tv coverage,of the Vectra C issues.
Using myself as an example,I could be left with a vehicle that,after 7 years use,with very low mileage by todays standards,requires a new short engine.This would certainly render the car beyond economical repair.
Is it about time the manufacturer was taken to task about this by somebody that they may listen to?
Interested HJ...?
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - Saltrampen
If I recall correctly 2004 - 2005 is when modified engines started to appear.
(which ties in with HJ saying early VVTi engines on the 2003 on model Avensis had this problem)
With an 05 engine, I'd go to the Toyota forums and check to see if any other owners of this age car have reported the oil problem, but it is likely this a modified engine.
The Toyota story made the national press in the last couple of years and the response was to extend the warranty.
Trouble is there will be many Avensis owners trying to sell their car before the warranty expires!
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - Brit_in_Germany
Am I correct in my understanding that the 2.0 VVTi engine is not one which suffers from this problem? We have an Avensis Verso which is coming up to 7 years old with no sign of oil consumption.
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - Saltrampen
HJ reports it as an issue on VVTi Avensis Versos as something to look out for.
Although I have read more cases of 1.8 failures than 2.0.
The comment that it is due to incorrectly sized liners or pistons on this site may mean that it does not affect every single engine.
From what my collegue says and what others have written it can start to generally appear after 40 - 50 k miles and becomes really bad within 10 k to 20 k miles afterwards, but more accurate info can be found on toyota forums. Please check experiences of other Verso owners.
Best bet is to trade it in at a Toyota dealers at the first sign of excessive oil consumption.
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - halla
Well,I am still here attempting to resolve the problem.
UPDATE-
Decided if it meant living with an added oil consumption only(I wish!) I would keep the car if possible for another 12 months then ......change. I went on a long journey 2 weeks ago(180 miles) after 70 miles,Oil pressure light came on-and a rattle like a diesel from the engine(oil was topped up so not low-checked 3 times on journey).Made it to my destination with nerves in tatters,decided to attempt drive home a few days later(being in RAC took a chance)as the rattle/light had gone. To my surprise during the 180 miles home NO noise NO rattle and I have been using locally for short work journey's,so far OK touch wood.

A friend of the family who is a qualified working Toyota Dealership mechanic,listened to the car at this point no excess noise or oil light on at all-Opinion was, that problem was all due to this Design fault/oil burn problem and bottom ends could be the problem? Oil thinning when engine hot on long journey(I don't do often) Without stripping down,unable to say for definate.He could not quite understand why the car drove home wirth no oil light on or rattle. His comments were that 'he has done a lot of these' (probs with engine and oil burn) general opinion and mine are that Toyota standards appear to have dropped since being built in the UK! NOooo...surely not! can't believe that!!

Rang Toyota-They did not want to know due to age of car(I had to try though),would not admit to the problem or previous extended warranty until they realized that I knew....about the problem.They should have been politicians!

Rang trading standards to see if I had any rights re this-As I traded this car in 3 years ago(prob noticed after 2 1/2 yrs and spoke to Trader) They advised me to take up the case under 'satisfactory quality' SOGA. I have spoken to the Trader who I appreciate who has been caught up in this.But I feel ,I have been caught in the middle of an expensive problem which still SHOULD not and WOULD not be present if not for a Toyota problem and yet they wash their hands.

The trader has offered a complete reconditioned engine for £1300 and he will fit free of charge. The car is immaculate and top of the range etc and I do like it. I now have to make a decision as to whether I go for a recon engine wiht the risk that the problem may come back.I have had differing opinions on this.Toyota mech seems to think it will,trader thinks not. or would anything else major go?
Or,alternatively,trade in car.Funds are limited therefore I am unable to shell out vast amounts for a trade in and not know what I am getting.Maybe better the devil I know? (even though it will mean me being £1300 poorer).

I would appreciate any comments to help me make my decision.PLEASE anybody,would this problem re-occur? In a recon engine?
I know one thing,after owning 2 other Corollas for 7 & 5 Years(Japanese made!)I have been put off Toyota...BIG time.
I have to make up my mind this week-end or just buy and old banger,but hang on......isn't that what I've got now?! :o(

All Comments appreciated ........


VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - halla
PS Spoke to a Y reg Avensis owner today,who commented that he has noticed that he is using more and more oil than he used to, in his car.
Toyo mech states that they have replaced engines in 02 models.
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - Saltrampen
Now you experienced rattling / low oil pressure once, you'll aways be worried it could return and you'll be very worried about longer journeys.
W reg Toyota maybe worth £2500 private sale / £1300 trade-in perhaps. So £1300 is Close to trade in value.

If you can maybe worth trading it in at Toyota (since they caused the problem with bad design) for something without this type/age engine if you can get a good trade in price.

If you get a new or recon engine - you'll need to keep the car or sell privately. Since this engine has problems with bores/piston rings / oil consumption, check carefully if the recon engine has had modifications to prevent it happening again. What guarentee comes with recon engine? 3 out of 4 instances of "Engine" replacement that I have experience of have ended up with something that sounds worse or looks worse (in engine bay) than what was there before. ..so if you go down this route check details very carefully and give car good inspection before paying up. Personally I'd want a 3yr/60k parts & labour guarentee on this type of engine before even considering it.






Edited by Saltrampen on 06/04/2009 at 14:47

VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - halla
As I like the car and it is a nice car in ex condition(barring the engine!)I thought about going for a recon engine,but have decided to sadly trade it in. You are correct Saltrampen ,I am very worried about the problem occuring again.I do not usually do a long journy,so I am using it locally for the time being until I find another car(I will do more research next time)...with fingers crossed!

I am curious though as to WHAT caused the low oil pressure?
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - Tomo5
I bought my Corolla 1.4 VVTi (W/2000) with 28,000 on the clock. Ever since i got it i have had to fill it up with oil on a monthy basis. I also get a fluttering / rattling noise from the engine which can be quite loud and anoying - not sure if this is related to the oil problem. The car has now done over 100,000 miles and despite the persistant oil & fluttering problems it has been rock soild reliable. It has passed every MOT without a problem and i havent had to replace any parts other than consumables - not bad for a 9 yr old car with 100k. The car was never valuable enough to pay to try to get the problems sorted and I reasoned that as long as it works reliably I can live with it.
Im considering buying a newer Corolla and would be interested if anyone else has experienced or found a cure for a the fluttering / rattling noise from the engine?
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - derg
We bought our E11 1.4 petrol year 2000 Corolla about 3 mths ago. We are totally impressed with it our first Toyota. This one is made in Japan. We do our own repairs and servicing. This is how we address the issues posted on this thread already.

E11 1.4TTVi Oil Burning
Currently the trend is to use a 5W-30 synthetic oil fill. We use a 10W40 semi synthetic oil. We change the oil at around 5000 miles. On the sump we stuck a magnet next to the drain plug and we only use original filters.

This car has around 60000 miles on the clock and it does use some oil. Alfa Romeos use oil. Why worry?

E11 1.4TTVi 2000 rattling "pinking" "pre-ignition"
This happens under load at around 2000rpm. It is a known fault. Customers who complained got a revised ECU...a new computer contol box...free. Toyota redsigned the ECU. The vehicles were not recalled, so unless the first customer complained your engine will rattle as ours does.

We use BP ultimate high octane fuel. It still rattles. At times the rattle will get worse. As you drive on a steady throttle say at around 3000rpm the engine may cut out and restart over the course of about half a second. The computer is resetting itself. The rattle gets less because the computer has remapped itself.

If the rattling noise gets bad then change down the box to a higher gear and it will go away. I would suggest changing the oil at 5000 and using a diesel engine oil with high detergency to prevent oil foaming/carbon deposition. Ss stated above we use a 10W-40 semi syn diesel engine oil.

The Toyota is streets ahead of what VW Audi had to offer back in the year 2000.
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - debonairzummerzetmillionaire
Derg - Thanks for posting - you've answered questions I've been asking since I bought my 2000 (W) Corolla 1.4 VVTi from a Toyota dealer when it was 4 yrs old. Not sure how to action getting this included on the Car by Car Breakdown, but do hope HJ includes it. My car had 50,000 miles on the clock and now has over 100,000. The oil burning started after 60,000 and 6.5 years, but the rattling has always occurred. It also has a tendency to cut out and restart instantaneously, particularly at high motorway speeds. The car has proved very reliable and I've little intention of replacing it despite the ridicule I received buying it at the tender age of 28 when all my VW, Audi driving mates heard the news. I only hope the Japanese don't compromise standards of engineering excellence like lesser manufacturers have.
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - Bagpuss
Not sure how to action getting this included on the Car by Car Breakdown
but do hope HJ includes it.


Try sending HJ an e-mail. That's what I did and he updated the relevant CBC entry to include my comments.
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - Altea Ego
>The oil burning started after 60,000 and 6.5 years, but the rattling has always occurred. It also has a tendency to >cut out and restart instantaneously, particularly at high motorway speeds.

>I only hope the Japanese don't compromise standards of engineering excellence like lesser manufacturers have.


Err In your case I think they did.
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - bandit
I also have bought a 1.4 vvti and am now experiencing the 'rattle' and oil burning problems. When looking for a car I went the usual way of purchasing a Parkers guide and looking locally for a car. The Corolla turned up and looking up the guide it gave Toyota's a reliable if rather bland reputation. No mention whatsoever of vvti oil burning problems, rather misleading, but now i'm stuck with it. My question is if it burns oil how does that effect the mot's? Will it still pass and how bad does it have to be to fail?
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - Tomo5
Mine has always passed the MOT emissions test without problem despite burnung oil. I share your frustration that no mainstream car guide mentions the rattling and oil burning issues - makes you wonder how comprehensive their tests are!
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - bandit
Hi Tomo5 thanks for your answer.
Could you enlighten me on roughly how much oil use you are talking about? I seem to be getting through about 1LTR in about 800 miles. Is this excessive considering they say it could be more than 1LTR in 600 miles? Also when was your last MOT and was it burning oil and at what amount was it using then? I'm a bit concerned whith an MOT looming on the horizon but other than that it is a great car. The VVTI engine pulls really well considering the size of the car, certainly better than other 1.2-1.4 hot hatches I tried (you had to rev them to get them to go) Excellent build quality (apart from the engine it would seem!) If all it needs is a weekly oil check and top up then I could put up with it but if it's likely to fail on emissions then perhaps it is time for it to go. Any other advise on this long running subject :-( would be welcome. Thanks.
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - bonzodog
Hi Hella, I was wondering if you had traded it in yet & if so what did you get in it's place?
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - cuthbert
Toyota take a more supportive view if you have a full set of dealer stamps in the service book

Starts at about 40,000 miles on the clock

Edited by cuthbert on 04/07/2009 at 18:19

VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - nicholas T
My toyota celica started drinking litres of semisynthetic last august at 8 years old and 69000. I solved the problem; I used nothing but superunleaded and optimax since then and it has not used a drop of oil in the last few weeks, despite using the car every day! I have to add, that the effect of the high RON fuel seems to take a few months, before oil consumption drops. Another thing....ensure frequent oil change with a decent semisynthetic
to avoid it getting too thick.

Edited by nicholas T on 05/02/2010 at 12:28

VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - Lygonos
ensure frequent oil change with a decent semisynthetic

to avoid it getting too thick. <<

I always thought oil became less viscous with use.

Shows what I know ;-)
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - Glenn 42

I have always found Toyotas to be vastly overrated cars and very expensive to maintain and an experience with a Corolla in the late 90s- OK the car was quite old but had been very well looked after put me off them for life, again it developed a huge thirst for oil, which was bad enough, but then decided to blow its head gasket suddenly, then would only work on three cylinders and then the hydraulic clutch started leaking fluid. I sc***ped this car after 12 very frustrating and expensive months as the cost of repairs was twice what the car was worth. After this heap of rubbish, I invested in a totally unfashionable six year old Proton with a Mitsubishi 1.5 engine which only required a new tyre and cam belt change during the two years I had it.

VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - derg

Hiya debonaire. The Toyota Motor Corporation published a "technical service bulletin" in May 2006 ref no. EG-6020. This effects just about all the Toyota models popular in the UK as far as I can see. Basically it has fix for customers who are experiencing oil related problems: this entails replacing the WHOLE bottom end of the motor. Basically the new assembly has:

i. piston lube and cooling has been improved

ii. greater oil capacity.

This new unit was fitted globally between April and September 2005 to vehicles made in the Toyota plants around the world. As far as I can see they have upped the sump capacity by half a litre. Have to say that the top end of the engine is a complicated unit demanding good clean oil and a good pressure push from the pump. Toyota call the revised short block the OPTIFIT and a new dip stick is required to reflect the increased oil level. The DRY fill volume is now 4,7 litre as opposed to the former amount of 4,2 litre.

VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - debonairzummerzetmillionaire

derg: Thanks.

VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - jns

No one has written on this thread for years, but my only lead to my exsisting problem with my Toyota Corrola E11 1.4 vvti which I had from 40k, It's 14 years old 90k and runs fine, little bit of oil comsumption, whats new!

It's this statement of the thread that gets my attention, because I have this constant problem since I had the car!

E11 1.4TTVi 2000 rattling "pinking" "pre-ignition"
This happens under load at around 2000rpm. It is a known fault. Customers who complained got a revised ECU...a new computer contol box...free. Toyota redsigned the ECU. The vehicles were not recalled, so unless the first customer complained your engine will rattle as ours does.

Surley there must be a solution? Maybe installing an revised ECU? (must be cheap now if i could get hold of one)

Which one have I probably got? and which one do I need? Or even possibly re-mapp the one I have got?

I dont think its the chain that making the noise because it is tight!

Any advice please because it drives me nuts!

Edited by jns on 20/07/2013 at 21:45

VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - brum

Solutions to reduce pinking (pre-ignition)

1. Use higher octane fuel

2. Use a spark plug with a cooler heat range number.

3. Retard/Advance the ignition timing (cant remeber which way) - but thats probably not possible.

No.2 is probably the way to go.

VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - jns

I have been down the route of spark plugs and higher octane fuel! I really think it's a ECU problem! I will look into the spark plugs again! But the only decent ones are the ngk ones with the grooves, the bosch ones that are recommended are rubbish build quality now and the iridium pointy ngk ones are a complete waste of time and makes the situation worse!

The one's they recommend in the haynes manual are: Bosch FR8KCU for the 1.4 4ZZ-FE which I have got! (not sure they make them still?)

The one's that I'am using are the NGK BKR5EKB11 (closest match) for the 1.3 4E-FE engine (non-vvti)

I have also used the spark plugs for the 1.6 3ZZ-FE which are NGK BKR5EYA11 and still had the problem?

Edited by jns on 21/07/2013 at 12:00

VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - jns

(The page wont let me edit my message thats why I'am replying to my own!)

I tried a cross reference on these spark plugs and came up with Champion RC9YC4, I wonder if these would be better?

And where do I compare heat ranges on spark plugs online?

Any advice of anyone would be good!

Edited by jns on 21/07/2013 at 12:33

VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - brum

Those plugs are quite "hot" (see below)

Try using Bosch FR7KCU

or NGK BKR6EKB11 / BKR6EYA-11

www.boschsparkplugs.net/learning-center/article/22...t

If the pinking was only an issue when the vehicle was older, it might indicate that the combustion chambers are dirty or have debris in them that needs cleaning out. To assess/cure that properly would be a head off job (or use an endescope), but it might be worth trying a cleaning additive in the fuel at quite concentrated level. Personally I would use Millers ECOmax

Edited by brum on 21/07/2013 at 12:47

VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - jns

I have tried petrol cleaners before and engine flushes and regular oil changes the oil changes do stem the problem for a little while then comes back quickly!

VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - jns
(The page wont let me edit my message thats why I'am replying to my own!)

I tried a cross reference on these spark plugs and came up with Champion RC9YC4, I wonder if these would be better? I have not tried these!

And where do I compare heat ranges on spark plugs online?

This is how I understand it the engine and ECU I have got is not programed well to use lower octane fuel and works better using super un-leaded.

The original recomended spark plugs made Bosch are no longer available and cross referencing to another make is going to give me a different temperature range making them work too hot when the engine is warmed up and thats why it adds to the pinking.

I love someone to completly solve this? I'am so tempeted to put a later ECU in but very weary about doing this?
VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - unthrottled

Using a spark plug that is too hot shouldn't lead to detonation (audible pinking) which is the end gas autoigniting and isn't affected by the spark plug electrode temperature. The knock sensor will detect detonation before you do and will retard timing. A hot plug can cause preignition-which might lead on to detonation. Do the plugs show any sign of overheating or detonation damage? If not, you may be barking up the wrong tree.

VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - brum

Obviously either the knock sensor( if it has one - remember this is 14 year old car) or the ecu software is not doing its job or this is purely preignition (unthrottles definition).

As oil changes temporarily alleviate the symptoms, that might suggest this is indeed preignition caused by hot spots.

Does it have a distributor? I wonder how sophisticated the timing is on that car, if you could adjust the sensor that determines crank position, you may be able to retard the timing by a couple of degrees.

Buy a revised ECU or its an old car - maybe just drive it in a way to avoid the problem (gently) or sell it / let it die.

Edited by brum on 21/07/2013 at 15:03

VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - unthrottled

As oil changes temporarily alleviate the symptoms, that might suggest this is indeed preignition caused by hot spots.

If oil changes are indeed temporarily alleviating the symptoms, I'd be inclined to move the investigation away from spark plug heat ranges-unless inspection of the plugs reveal evidence of detonation/overheating damage.

If the timing chain were to rattle against its chain guides or housing, the noise wouldn't be dissimilar to detonation...

VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - SlidingPillar

The number 9 in the spark plug code is the heat range. A 9 in the Champion range is getting on for the most common for all sorts of engines, from mum's shopping car to my vintage car.

In addition, the heat range covered by a plug has widened a bit over the years so I'd be quite happy using a different make. Indeed, after I had 4 duff Champions in a set, I mostly nowadays use NGK.

Too cold a plug won't self clean so misfiring could occur. Too hot a plug risks burning a hole in a piston but you'd have to be trying hard in a road car and have the plug type very wrong. If a wrong plug was wreaking the oil, you'd have all sorts of other problems as the only way you'd do that is have a set of too hot plugs. I wouldn't rule it out, but it's very unlikely.

VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - jns

I dont have mis-firing unless the plugs are completly nackered, which I have done by putting equivilent ngk Iridium plugs in and the gap widened by about 3mm they should be about a 1mm to 1.1 mm gap and then I had a set of Bosch plugs once the super 4 and match them by code in the end they badly over heated and one literally shatered inside the chamber, I was very lucky to get it out hanging by a thread! Thats why I have gone back to the ngk ones!

Poor old car she's does suffer from over heated plugs, but she's very realiable and still gives good mpg. I might just have to live with the so called pinking!

Still think the ECU has a spasm at load, It cant learn anything from it?

Edited by jns on 21/07/2013 at 19:38

VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - brum

then I had a set of Bosch plugs once the super 4 and match them by code in the end they badly over heated and one literally shatered inside the chamber, I was very lucky to get it out hanging by a thread! Thats why I have gone back to the ngk ones!

Poor old car she's does suffer from over heated plugs, but she's very realiable and still gives good mpg. I might just have to live with the so called pinking!

I would say that is very strong evidence you have heat range wrong (too hot). The only reason the iridium plugs can survive is that iridium is "extremely" tough. But I would say it sounds possibly if the plugs are running red hot and preigniting the air/fuel.

You need cooler plugs look at the link I posted earlier - for cooler plugs NGK/Denso the middle number goes up, Bosch the middle number goes down.

Might also be the reason you burn oil.

Look at the cooler LPG plug (heatrange 7) listed on the Bosch website

www.bosch-automotive-catalog.com/public/catalog/pr...e

Edited by brum on 21/07/2013 at 21:38

VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - jns

I think I am going to live with this problem unless someone knows the code for the revised ecu for this model?

It's strange that you said about the Crank position sensor it's the same as camshaft postion sensor? Because at one time that code did appear on my obd2 reader once and then I cleaned the connector and it never appeared again?

It could be intermitent or need slight adjustment like you said! mmmm

Edited by jns on 21/07/2013 at 19:49

VVTi engine burning oil - what now ? - jns

It has got better the rattling quiter and shorter, use thicker oil 10/40 and check your oil cap? know this sounds a bit silly I replaced mine with a replacement metal one to see if it would help keep the pressure in the engine to my surprise this actually helped!

 

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