Roger,
With the older Citroens and earlier Xantias they would sink to the ground in varying periods....sometimes in minutes, other times overnight. As long as the system was OK when the engine was running, and fluid loss was minimal, then no real problem.
My 1993 Xantia sinks when left while you go shopping, as it should. But for the later Xantias (including yours) they altered the system so the car would stay level when parked for a period. I understand this was to make it seem more "normal" to most customers (how daft).
What this means is that the later cars don't get a daily exercise from minimum to normal height, this can cause the links to stick and give erratic movement/levels. Eventually the link on the rear height corrector may break and replacement is needed.
I've just had a 1996 Xantia Estate in that had been standing for some months. That was all over the place with levelling until I'd lubricated all the pivots/links underneath and worked it through min-to-max (on the manual lever) a few times.
And yes it could be related to the brake work. I've found these later cars can sometimes take a bit of the min-to-max treatment after being on high for a while when they're jacked up.
David W
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It pays to do the minmax every week or so and check the LHM level when suspension is at full height.
As I often park on a gentle slope it is quite amusing waiting for the self-levelling to settle in the morning, especially if the cat is sitting on the bonnet..
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I usually do a minmax, but I'm not entirely sure what it's purpose is. Is the red warning light supposed to come on for a few seconds when you move the lever from min to max?
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Minmax stops pneumatics becoming rheumatics.
No red warning lights on my xantia.
The hydraulic system was repressurised earlier this week and the light now disappears instantly when starting the motor.
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Repressurized? Isn't that what the pump does? Or do you mean you had a leak fixed?
When on Min, and the lever is moved to Max, the low pressure warning light on my BX comes on for a second or two, until the pressure rises to safe levels again. It's normal.
Chris
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My "red light" used to come on on rare occasions. As the first time was after driving through a flood I put it down to wet electrics but it turned out that it was just asking for a drop more fluid. Which is what the light is there to tell you Dohhh ! More fluid, no light. If only it were always that simple.
John
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Citroen should specify linkage lubrication as part of the service routine ....... but they don't (do they?).
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David W will be right. Get the lubricant on those linkages before paying for a new height corrector. I've gone 500,000 miles on a couple of BXs and Xantias without a height corrector going wrong. And if you want instructions on how to service a HC I can e-mail you an excellent step by step article by Anders Jensen
PhilW
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Thanks Phil & Dave - I'll double check the linkages. Just to clarify, running the car in "normal" ride position basically leaves the rear hanging on the floor - i.e. it will not reach it's normal ride height. Using the height selector, I can get the rear of the vehicle go up and down - but to get the rear to drop, after it's been set to high, I have to select the lowest position - i.e. if I switch off the rear won't drop (which it used to even when set to the normal" position) The front seems fine and the fluid levels are fine also ( I think!)
Phil - if you could mail me those lubrication details that'd be great - assuming you both think my problem is still the linkages that is.
Cheers again.
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Roger,
If you arrange to look under the rear of the car you will see the height corrector unit located just forward of the spare wheel.
Note: Never rely on the suspension high setting for inspection, always support vehicle with axle stands!!
As well as the hydraulic feed pipes you will see it has a mechanical linkage connecting it to the suspension as well as the manual height lever.
It is often this linkage that can suffer lack of lubrication. Just look for every bit that seems as if it ought to slide or pivot and dose with WD40. Then the car height manual lever needs to be moved from low to high loads of times allowing the car to move through the full travel each time. (with the axle stands removed). When you are happy it is free then re-lubricate with a heavier oil such as engine oil in a trigger can. I don't use grease as it doesn't seem to penetrate the actual moving surfaces.
Ideally this work should be carried out on a full garage lift. Then with an assistant in the car making it go up and down you can safely watch from underneath and free/lubricate the pivots as you see them attempting to move.
I'll say again take great care, a chap died under a Xantia last year fiddling about when the suspension went down!
HTH
David W
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Roger,
Try what David suggests first - the articles I have are for taking apart and servicing the actual HC rather than the linkages. Also I don't know your e-mail address!! Actually, just remembered the article is at
www.geocities.com/citroen_bx/FAQ/faq_sus_003.html
PhilW
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I had the same problem on my 1994 Xantia 1.6 SX, with identical symptoms - especially that it would rise to max height bu no stay in he correct height. It turned out that the short U-shaped linkage from the height corrector to the ant-roll bar had completed sheared. It's this that makes the suspension 'know' where the default ride height is. If you have to replace it (about £10) make sure that you put a pin through the two hole on the height corrector to align the parts. This 'calibrates it' take out the pin when you've tightened up the nut that clamps the link to the anti-roll bar.
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While I'm here. Anyone recommend a good, cheap, citroen service garage in north or east London? My suspension needs a little tlc. It sinks very quickly despite new spheres all round (inc centre front). Not sure it's as good at taking weight. hydropneumatic compressor ticks every 2-3 seconds. Not got time or facilities to do it myself. Thanks to all.
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Good timing with your reply King - I've already lubricated the linkages but all to no avail, the car just won't settle at normal ride height. I was about to search for a local independant or book it into the main dealer for them to have a look when your post have give me some more hope!!
The linkages move freely and the car settles at either highest or lowest setting when chosen no problem. Hopefully this (the U-link) will resolve my problem - I presume self-fix wasn't too much of a problem? Is it easy to see whether this U-link has sheared and subsequently repair (without ramp etc?)
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DO NOT get under a hydraulic Citroen UNLESS it is supported on a lift, ramps or stands so that it cannot squash you if the suspenion drops - especially if you are planning to fiddle with a height corrector!
You might be able to see the link, if it's drooping down, from the rear, or from in front of the rear wheel.
Richard
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this tread has not been used for a while i hope someone see's it. i have a problem with my xantia's rear suspension. its a 1.9 td 1994. the problem is it feels very soft on the rear and the rear sinks when the car is at idle, eg traffic lights etc. could this be the rear height adjuster too?
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Does it sink at lights, etc when you have the footbrake on?
Can you hear a loud "tick" under the bonnet from the hydraulic pump/pressure regulator area every couple of seconds?
If so, it could be the main sphere located under the bonnet, fixed to the front of the transmition.
The rear brakes are fed from the rear suspension pressure and it could be that the system is running out of pressure, the rear brakes are "robbing" the rear suspension of fluid, and the pump, because the engine is at idle speed, cannot make good the supply.
I had a similar fault on a BX and changing the main sphere cured it.
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Lots of green-blooded, dirty-fingernailed types at
www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=3
rg
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Hello!
I'm new to the Xantia world! really love these cars! I usually do all sorts of work on my cars myself, BUT being new to this suspension system, I need to ask you being experts for any advise you can give! for this I would like to thank you in advance, and maybe I can help you in anything in the future!
Just got a 1995 Xantia 2.0i with 200K Kms on clock. When I test drove it, ride was already hard and bouncy, but still bought it having all other areas reasonably still in a very good shape. Of course I got it cheaper cause of the ride! Through your helpful forums, I replaced myself the four (corner) suspension spheres for new ones! 30 min job and ride was improved drastically! I did not replace the front middle sphere (I think this is called the accumulator sphere) and the middle back anti sink sphere, as I think they are fine. Car rises and lowers perfectely as when bought!
The problem I'm encountering is that I am still not convinced that ride quality is as it should be! (I had a BX for some months, and had borrowed a Xantia for a couple of weeks and their ride quality was much better). I still can feel road bumps (feel is like stand suspension ride) and I am feeling that cornering at an average speed is not so good! Ride hight lokks ok but i need to check through measurment.
Can you help me identify the cause of htis poor handling and comfort ride? What is the function of the middle spheres (front and back)? The only small leak I can notice in the system is from the front middle sphere regulator. Doees this affect performance?
Please advise,
Thanks,
Stefan
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It's said that air in the hydraulics is a cause of bad ride confort. The Citroen aerobics should be tried before looking to in depth. But a leak in the system could cause a knock on effect. Have you checked all rubber hoses for leaks?
Steve.
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Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
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If you imagine the two rear spheres as the suspension and the middle as the shock absorber,some cits have 6 spheres and some have 7 ,not all spheres are pressurised the same so they are not interchangable and you also have the option of comfort spheres,the front central sphere is the accumulator and when its going you will hear a clicking sound almost all the time instead of an infrequent click there is also a front central lower which is a ride enhancer sphere on some cit models.Changing the rear central will improve the ride no end .
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Hello,
So regarding the non-perfect Xantia comfort ride, I should also change the back middle and front middle spheres? Would they also improve ride quality? And I am also noticing a small leak from the right end tip of of the regulator (where the middle front sphere is fitted).... would that cause problems? and regarding the possibility of having air in the system, how should I eliminate it? The thing is that I need to be quite sure were to spend money now! I need to be sure that I am focusing on the right spot! Many thanks for now... really appriciate all your feedback!
Please keep hinting me!
Thanks,
Stefan
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If you have a good root around the frenchcarforums it will answer most of your questions. I would think that until you've cured the leaks there's not much point in replacing other parts. When you've cured the leaks I'd flush it through with LHM flush from GSF. Then replace the spheres. The centre rear one on a non hydractive car acts as a sort of rear accumulator and so has an effect on braking in case of pump failure, I'm also told it does have an effect on ride too. If you can state what model/tri m level the Xantia is we can tell if it has Hydractive suspension or not. The difference being an extra 2 spheres on a hydractive that give it a softer or sporter ride depending on how it's driven.
Steve.
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Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
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Hello Steve,
Yes ultra important.... no my Xantia is NOT a Hydractive model (no sport/normal mode button). And I guess you're quite right that FIXING THE LEAKS IS TOP PRIOROTY! Do you know of any suppliers there in the UK from where I can buy parts? Any contacts?
Thanks again,
Stefan
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I find my Xantia has the occassional rear sag problem. I can use it without problem for a few days and then one day I'll go to drive away after leaving it for 30 mins and the back is bouncing off the bump stops. I've found that moving the height to number 3 and then back forward to 2 once it's risen solves the problem for that journey. I thought my fluid was low, the little float appears stuck and no amount of tapping will loosen it, so I put a approx 250ml of green in and it was ok, but I don't get the flickering STOP light unless I do the aerobics, and it still does the 'speedboat' bit. But hey, it's French.
I had a BX before the Xantia and there is no comparison in ride comfort, the Xantia is much firmer, but handles better.
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Hello Again,
As you sugested, I will start with leak solving and than tuen my concentartion on ride comfort and middle front/back spheres. 1 question.... what is 'Citrobics'?? What does this stand for?
Any help will be greatly appriciated.
Thanks,
Stefan
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I believe that for hydraulic parts - pipe, seals, tools, etc. Pleiades is the place to go. GSF seem good for most other parts including spheres.
www.citroen-hydraulics.com/ .
Citrobics is a name give to the raising and lowering of the suspension to it's full extent a number of times, maybe 5 or 10 full cycles.
Am I right in thinking you've joined Frenchcarforums?
Steve.
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Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
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Doug,
My Xantia doesn't always behave itself, sometimes it sinks but mostly it doesn't, I'm not sure if the anti sink is temperamental or the height correction gets muddled. Unfortunately I haven't been in a BX for years and no other Xantias so I've no idea if the ride is as smooth as it should be, half the time I'm not convinced the hydractive side of things is working as it should. Still if I wanted something simple....
Steve.
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Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
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Yes, just joined Steve....Why?!.....If I may ask?
Thanks for the explaination!... still way back with Citroens!
Cheers,
Stefan
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I saw this topic and posters name - www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=206...2
Also it's exactly what I did, bought a Xantia then went search for information on how to fix it. I was spotted by RichardW I think.
Nice to have another Xantia owner on here!
Steve.
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Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
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Hello All,
Hej....Steve....Citrobics or whatever really made a difference!! Did it immediately yesterday and repeated procedure for 10 times and both handling and ride improved! Later I went to a Citroen enthuisiast, who I got to know about this week.... he's well in Citroen's as he owns 5 models I believe (2DX, GSE's and BXs)... he has also spent years working with Citroen agent here as a mech... so he's really another guy who can help!! He tried my car and confirmed taht it's got a typical Xantia ride (Harder tahn BXs!!) ... this was new to me!
Slightly disapointed as I really wished to get the softer ride of BXs.... he mentioned to modify my spheres and decrease slightly the pressure! He's got the equipment and everything and will not be the first trial! He mentioned that he'll make the pressure closer to the BXs range, so ride should soften slightly and would not really effect handling! I guess I will opt for that as I really wish a sofer ride.
He also mentioned taht I should replace the front wishbone bushes or have the arms replaced (this I knew about) as the bumop feeling they create also effects the ride feel I am expecting from my Xantia!
Anyways!! Thanks a lot for all your feedback!!
For later,
Stefan
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Hello simon
I had problems with my xantia firstly spheres are the easiest thing to change is that is the problem as you just lower the car replace them and if theyrte not too tight can be done with an oil filter remover strap costing about £4 and just screw the new ones on tight then rise and lower the suspension 5 times as its all a self bleeding system. if its the valve heght corrector all you need do is put the rear wheels on ramps lower it again and grease her up. also if its the centre sphere on the rear its the same procedure as first stated. i change my fron ones in ten minutes i had that car for 5 years and it was so easy to fix, to repair a broken pipe i paid £35 they just cut a bit out and bolt a new bit in place. the suspension is pretty easy to work on as its all self bleeding but just remember to lower it first to release all pressure. a hard suspension means knackered spheres i paid £15 each for mine and i used my car to drive all over the country, sometimes i wish i never got rid of it. but my wife forced me to upgrade. damn women!!!
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Hello Guys!
Need some help on the 3 problems listed below?. Maybe you can guide me!
1) I need to adjust the ride height of my Xantia. Do you know of any link/information which could help ? with measurements etc..
2) On my 2.0I 8V Xantia, idling is not stable! When I stop the car and leave on idling, revs start to go up to 2000 and down again ? hunting! Can you indicate the cause?
3) I need to make ride softer. Somewhere I?ve read that if I widen slightly the bore of the spheres, ride will soften coming closer to a BX. Any ideas?
Please advice,
Thanks,
Stefan
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Point 3.What you have heard is rubbish there are different spheres and you could or may be able still to specify comfort spheres which gave a slightly softer ride I tried them on our XM and the ride was terrible.
Point 1.Why do you want to adjust the ride height?
Point 2. Could be a number of things from temp sensors to throttle body.
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Hello Andy,
Thanks for your quick reply! I need to adjust the ride height as I feel it is sitting slightly lower than standard. Need to check and adjust it if required as I believe ride quality can be better having replaced all spheres a month ago!
Regading the spheres, Would increaseing the pressure of spheres soften the ride quality?
Please advice,
Thanks,
Stefan
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The sphere pressure is set during the gasing process you cannot alter it,did you chance the middle rear sphere and the front middle -six spheres in total.
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I'd be very wary of modifying existing spheres, drilling out the damper holes and adjusting pressure. It would be difficult to know how much by and any swarf that ended up in the system could cause more problems.
With mine I could change my corner spheres for non hydractive ones but I suspect that if I ever get the soft mode working right it would handle like a boat.
Good luck.
Steve.
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Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
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A consideration to the difference in ride must be given to the fact that the Xantia is an heavier car than a BX and so this will alter the characteristics, I would guess a lighter car is easier to control from a springing/damping point of view.
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Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
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Hello All!
Well, I'll be grinding open an old non-working sphere by the end of this week and will have a look at the inside. My idea was to widen the sphere bores by a little bit.... say if the original bore is 1.5mm, I would try to widen to 1.6 or 1.7mm (just a little bit). Will try to simulate this on an old sphere and will use a powerful vacuum to keep any swarf at bay!
A local Citroen agent X mechanic mentioned taht to soften the ride height of a Xantia is to increase the pressure of the spheres....say from 55 to 65. He's got the equipment to do it!
Does it make sense to increase pressure?
Would love to have a softer ride as otherwise for ride comfort I would have opted for a Peugot 405....maybe not a refined and not as appealing as the Xantia, but softer and much less complicated at the end!!
Any ideas?
Stefan
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To think you are going to gamble the safety of your car occupants and other road users by fiddling around with a safety aspect of a car beggars belief.I hope your friendly Citroen man has got the appropiate licences for his equipment and storage of gas.
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"My idea was to widen the sphere bores by a little bit.... say if the original bore is 1.5mm, I would try to widen to 1.6 or 1.7mm (just a little bit)."
Please don't do this, note the replies you have had from some very knowledgeable people on this site and Frenchcar forum.
If you know nowt about it, it could be very dangerous to mess with drills and spheres, and if you are messing with ride height please do NOT do it without fully supporting the car so that you don't get the full weight of a Xantia on you.
I still don't really understand why you think the ride height is wrong or why you would compromise the handling for a "softer" ride - do you not think that this could be (as AB says above) VERY dangerous??
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Phil
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Hello All!
Thanks guys! Guess you're right! You have convinced me not to mess with the Spheres!
Regading ride height, I just need to check cause recentely I replaced Tyres and rims from 14" Rims/65 Tyre profile to 15" rims/55 Tyre profiles and cause I had to move the front height corrector setting during some front end work. So basically I need to confirm height!
Recent tasks carried out on my Xantia - maybe I could be some help for you!
1) Front wishbone bushes replaced
2) Steering Rack Tie Rods
3) Steering Rack Gaters (Hell of a job with rack in position!)
4) Drop links
5) Front Strut Gaters replaced
6) Brake Pads
7) Clutch/Prssur plate/Trust bearing
8) Main drive Shaft center bearing
9) Outer seal of brake master valve
Still confusing tasks which I still need to do are the following two:
1) Engine ocassionally ideals eratically (2.0i 8valve)
2) Height variation if I stop in traffic and leave brake pedal pressed for a while! (This really puzzles me!)
Any Ideas?!
Thanks again, take care,
Stefan
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If you have changed tyre profile to a lower aspect ratio than standard then you will not improve the ride, there is less tyre wall to help absorb shocks.
The ride height is in the Haynes manual. I'm at work at the moment, if you wish I will look up figures this evening.(Post back if you want the figures)
The idling issue, I would clean the air mass sensor, check vacuum hoses, plugs etc as a start.
The rear brakes are fed from the rear suspension hydraulic circuit. This allows the braking effort at the rear to be linked to the load on the rear suspension. The Citroen equivalent to a mater cylinder has two pressure inlets, one each for front and rear. Excess fluid is bled back to the reservoir. It is possible for the cylinder to have a slight internal leak which robs the rear suspension of fluid. The longer the brake pedal is held on, the more the rear drops. Under normal driving conditions the pump caters for this. It is not dangerous, just puzzling! All my BX's did it, and my 99T Xantia does it as well.
If you are unsure of the history of the car, I would be looking at a hydraulic oil change asap. I assume that you know enough to use the correct LHM fluid and not "normal" brake fluid.
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Hi,
Cheers for the feedback mate. Got the haynes myself but I need to have a look and work out the exact new height setting now.... cause of the new wheels. Yes, LHM will not change it as during the past month, I feed at least 5Lts new LHM due to leaks which I solved especially when the Brake master valve outer seal collapsed and started to squirt LHM in the floor pan! I need to clean filter now and should be done with LHM for now. Regading the Brake master valve, I changed the outer seal a week ago, long job due to ineccessibility but straight forward. Bled system and all was fine apart that since Yest I'm hearing a 'sucktion' type sound coming from this new seal when I press the brake considerably. Brakes seem to be working quite good! Checked the components and can't detact nything wrong apart from a microscopic leak from the outer side of brake valve (outermost part in engine compartment area - where there is the large cir clip). Boq don't know.... Will try to bleed brakes again and see what happenes.
Till d next! Take care,
Stefan
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One thing I learnt really fast was to always use the handbrake when stood in traffic especially if pulling up at a junction, if I don't when I take my foot off the brake pedal the rear end sinks to the bump stops. I assume it's because when you stop the tail rises slightly so after a few seconds the height corrector starts diverting fluid to adjust the rear height, then when you take your foot off the brake the tension in the suspension is relaxed which allows the rear to drop but due to the height correctors actions it drops even further. That's why the handbrake's on the front wheels I guess.
Steve.
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Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
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I read on another forum that internal leaks are the cause, either way its a "feature", not a danger.
The handbrake works on the front wheels because the rear suspension geometry, trailing arm, allows the wheelbase of the car to alter wnen the rear end sinks. Not such a problem with anti-sink spheres on the Xantia, but on the BX, in theory, if the handbrake was on the rear, and the car was left in gear, when it sank the two ends would fight each other.
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A small amount of leakage is actually needed to lubricate some parts like the HC valves but we are talking drips, once you start getting a flow back to the LHM tank from anything apart from the PS or regulator you've got problems. Even anti sink Xantia's sink a little before the anti sink valve cuts in and even then sitting at the lights with your foot on the brakes isn't a good idea. A good Xantia handbrake can stop the car from low speeds, I know mine does.
Happy Christmas!
Steve.
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Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
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MjM I see you drive a Xantia, sorry I'm telling you what you already know!
Happy Christmas!
Steve.
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Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
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No problem, Glowplug. I firmly believe in live and learn, even at the advanced age of 57 3/4!
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Hi Guys..... me again from Malta.
1 Question for you experts. Xantia recently is lowering a bit from the back as soon as I switch off! Shall I replace the Anti sink sphere?
Any suggestions much appriciated beforehand!
Thanks,
Stefan
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From memory I think the anti-sink feature was to make the car appear more "normal", ie like a Mondeo/Vectra than the usual Citroen "lie down for a rest" attitude when parked. Mine settles a bit at the back if left unused for a while. (It doesn't settle as quickly as yours, though).
As long as it settles to the correct position and rides/handles ok, I would not worry too much over it.
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One thing I learnt really fast was to always use the handbrake when stood in traffic especially if pulling up at a junction if I don't when I take my foot off the brake pedal the rear end sinks to the bump stops. I assume it's because when you stop the tail rises slightly so after a few seconds the height corrector starts diverting fluid to adjust the rear height then when you take your foot off the brake the tension in the suspension is relaxed which allows the rear to drop but due to the height correctors actions it drops even further. That's why the handbrake's on the front wheels I guess. Steve.
Glad I found this post - I had been wondering why my Xantia would drop it's backend when I sat at traffic lights with my foot on the brake!
As a slight aside, it's an X reg (late 2000) 2.0 HDi SX model - and from what I've read elsewhere, I believe that it should have the anti-sink fitted to the suspension. Am I correct in assuming this? I ask because when I get out of the car, within a few seconds, the back end will sink quite rapidly to a fairly low level. That said, it's always very quick to get itself back to "normal" ride height - just a few seconds if the car has only been left for a short period - up to maybe 10 seconds when left overnight or for a couple of days.
Just really wanting conformation that this is "normal"?
Whatever, it's certainly a lot quicker tp adjust than the V reg Xantia that someone decided to drive into the back of in February - that was my first venture with a Xantia - and I was happily impressed with it and was about to get the suspension (amongst other things) looked at - just glad it got written off before I had that work done!! The new one seems to have had most stuff done within the last year - around £1200 of work by the previous owner including spheres, tyres, brakes and a new cat :)
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Hi All,
I have been reading all the posts within this thread and the info in here is very useful and so i was hoping that someone maybe be able to advice me...
I was given a Xantia 1.9 D SX 1995 113.000 miles, I've had it for a week or so now and I have noticed that the front seems very bouncy even when motorway driving. Is this normal and if not can someone please advise me on the matter..? I've checked the fluids and the car seems to rise and fall ok, the car is in very good condition and no warning light are showing to say there is a problem.
My father had the same car when i was a young lad and i don't remember him having any problems like this one.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
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Chances are it needs a new pair of front spheres. First check the ride height is OK - look at it from the side, engine running, normal ride height. It should look level, and there should be about a 3" gap between the top of the front tyre and the bottom of the wing. If that looks OK, push down on each corner to feel the spheres - there should be a good 3 - 4" of very soft travel. If not it probably needs new spheres.
--
RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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RichardW worte:
"Chances are it needs a new pair of front spheres. First check the ride height is OK - look at it from the side, engine running, normal ride height. It should look level, and there should be about a 3" gap between the top of the front tyre and the bottom of the wing. If that looks OK, push down on each corner to feel the spheres - there should be a good 3 - 4" of very soft travel. If not it probably needs new spheres."
I've checked the ride hight and that looks to be ok, its 3.2" but pushing down on either side of the front the car isn't soft and wobbles about all over the place.
Can i just check that this is the correct method for replacing the spheres. "lower the car replace them and if they're not too tight can be done with an oil filter remover strap costing about £4 and just screw the new ones on tight then rise and lower the suspension 5 times as its all a self bleeding system." or will this work need to be done by a specialist.?
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If history is unknown, then suggest change fluid and rear spheres. Also lubricate rear linkage. Use a Cit independent specialist, the Cit dealer price will be more than the car is worth.
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If history is unknown, then suggest change fluid and rear spheres. Also lubricate rear linkage. Use a Cit independent specialist, the Cit dealer price will be more than the car is worth.
Rear spheres? But it's the front that's bouncy. RichardW's right on the money. As usual.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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"RichardW's right on the money. As usual."
:-)))
I do have a bit of experience though. I've covered nearly 200,000 miles in hyropneumatic cars since I got my first car (BX) in 1996, and my Dad has had an unbroken string of HP cars since about 1980 (well, apart from a few months with an AllAggro when the last GS bust its rear subframe).
I sometimes wonder if I will bleed green when working on them...!
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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"lower the car replace them and if they're not too tight can be done with an oil filter remover strap costing about £4 and just screw the new ones on tight then rise and lower the suspension 5 times as its all a self bleeding system." or will this work need to be done by a specialist.?"
RichW will confirm, but I think as well as lowering the car with the lever you need to release the pressure at the pressure regulator (front of car , behind radiator,attached to right of accumulator sphere). I think it is a 14mm screw which you turn ONLY one turn. (DO NOT turn it further otherwise a little sealing ball bearing will be lost) You will hear the hiss as pressure is released. This depressurises the system completely and avoids fountains of the green stuff!
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Phil
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Correct Phil - except it's a 12mm bolt. But note that you need to leave the car with the engine running in low for a minute or so to keep the anti-sink valves open and fully depressure the suspension. Actually I'm not convinced you do need to open the bleed screw - but it's best to! Fronts are not usually too bad, but they can be tight if they've been on a long while. Make sure you remove the old seal and fit a new one - to the sphere mount rather than the sphere. They only need to be hand tight as well. If you're near Manchester, Westroen will change them for £25 each.
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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"Make sure you remove the old seal and fit a new one - to the sphere mount rather than the sphere"
Sound advice - first time I replaced front spheres on a BX I put them on the sphere - as I repressurised I realised my mistake from the 30 foot fountain of the green stuff! My wife found it very amusing, but then she was inside the house looking out; I was under the fountain as it descended!
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Phil
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>spelling it out mode<
In addition to replacing the front spheres, take the opportunity -if the history is unknown - to change the rear spheres and the suspension fluid as well because the suspension fluid may well be original and due for a change and you might find that the rear spheres will require replacement shortly - if the history is unknown - and if the car is at the Cit specialist then that's a good time to deal with the related problems including the unscheduled lubrication of the rear linkage.
Hope that clarifies things.
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Hello Guys!!
Still got 2 probs with my Xantia...... was wandering if you can help!
Ride is still hard even though it has brand new spheres - (I'm suspecting that the overall car ride height is lower than it should be!) It seams that when I go over bumps, the car 'jumps' over bumps and not absorbs!! Got 15inch wheels now and would love to check height with these new tyres and adjust accordingly.... unfortunately Haynes is not really helpful! for eg.... How do I check the Diameter of a 15" wheel with 55profile tyres?!?!..... Should I include the tyre thread??? This measurment will make a drastic influence on the height calculation result!!
2nd Prob..... unstable idle!! Reving occassionaly from 900RPM to 2000RPM when idle!!
Any Ideas please?!
Thks
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It sounds like the front ride height corrector is not working. Does the car respond to the height selection control lever?
Unstable idling may be a sensor or a dirty maf unit.
My Xantia has 185 65 15 wheels. I don't think your ride height is going to be far from standard. The rolling radius of the wheel will be less than the "true" radius.
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Hello,
Yes, Height lever Vs lowering etc... works fine! I just think I need to raise car a bit, front mudguard to tyre top is about 1.5inches apart while the back sits abot 3/4 on an inch higher than tyre! I really would like to have better ride quality as I'm sure it's far from ideal with new spheres in etc.... When I tried to to the job of height adjustment myself, the gap between Tyre and wing came around 3 to 4 inches at the front which looked too much!! I'm not sure if I'm taking the correct tyre radius!! Do I need to include the thread when taking the radius? This is making a lot of difference in the final measurment and gap looks too high! Having it doe at a local Citroen agent will be a definite rip off!! I'm quite mechanical myself so I would do it myself!,but I'm no Citroen expert and quite new with this system!
Regading the erratic iddling, it looks as if it's getting worse. Some time ago it did it occasional. Now it's more frequent and really can't see a difference when this occurs! Sometime when car is still cold, and sometimes after a longer trip! I have no Lampda sensor fitted in my car. What did you mean by dirty 'maf unit'??
Thanks in advance for your kind help!
Stefan
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You need to know the correct dimension from the centre of the wheel to the wheelarch. I would find a friendly Xantia owner and ask to measure theirs, with the engine running. A quick measure then from the centre of your wheel to the ground gives you the wheelarch/ground dimension. You do need to include thr tyre tread, it is part of the rolling radius.
The suspension doesn't really care where the ground is, it is working on the relative position of the suspension strut.
I have never had to adjust the ride height in any of the BXs or the Xantiaso I don't know how sensitive to adjustment it is. I do know that the cars are darned heavy and that I don't go under one without making sure that it is securely supported.
The idle problem is difficult to tell, I haven't much experience of working on the system. I would start by cleaning all the bits between the air cleaner and the inlet manifold, the maf (mass air flow) sensor is in there. All the engine breather pipes would be next and the throttle butterfies(at the start of the inlet manifold).
I am at work at the moment, if you post back with engine and car year details I will have a look in the Haynes manual and see which system is fitted when I get home.
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Year 1995
Eng: 2.0Lt 8v
Cheers Mate!
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According to Haynes you have the Magneti Marelli system. Looking at the manual, I would begin by checking the idle speed stepper motor connection and the motor linkage. A map sensor is fitted instead of a maf. It should be on the nearside inner wing.
I would also check the connections to the Throttle potentiometer for cleanliness. This unit should tell the ecu that the throttle is closed and the idle speed circuit needs to wake up and control the idle speed.
This is about as far as I know, maybe there are some other clued up forum contributers who will be of further assistance.
Chapters 4a and 4c of the manual are worth a read for component location, etc.
HTH
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Hi all,
Been reading through all the messages to do with suspension problems on Xantia's and have a similar problem which I would like some advice on.
I have a 1.9TD LX (1997 R) Xantia and since christmas it has been handling very bad, almost as if the back end wants to slide out. Have replaced the near side front lower suspension arm as the bush had worn out but this hasn't resolved the issue. It seems to get worse when I have been sitting in traffic and the engine is idling (and no, I don't keep my foot on the brake pedal - it blinds the driver behind me and my foot starts to ache after a while!!) and for a few minutes afterwards the handling feels as if the suspension has raised itself to maximum, but it hasn't as the ride height is 'normal'.
The suspension adjusts itself correctly between maximum and minimum however, when the car is started in the morning, it takes a couple of minutes for the ride height to settle down and the STOP light to go out. All fluid levels are correct and the LHM fluid was changed 12 months ago after a problem with the resivoir, although the system was not flushed.
Any ideas??
Thanks in advance
Dave
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As with all Zantias and Xm's there comes a time when all the spheres need changing this will transform the suspension and handling all six or maybe 7 depending on model, welcome to the world of hydrolastics.
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5, 6, 8 or 10 spheres depending on the Xantia model.....
My guess with Dave's problem would be that a) the rear height corrector is seized causing the erratic rear end behaviour and b) either the fluid needs changing the filters cleaning or the pump is knackered, which accounts for the long presurisation time (things would be a bit different if it was a hydractive car).
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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Many thanks for replying so quickly...and that's the first time anyone has said that my rear end is erratic!!
Don't think it's the 4 suspension spheres as the suspension doesn't feel 'hard' as mentioned in previous posts and pressing down on each corner of the car produces the expected result - the car dips down about 3 inches and bounces back to the correct height. Could it be that it's just the centre ones that need replacing?
Will check the height corrector tonight when I get back from work - got a pit in the garage and don't want to get underneath the car without proper supports, heard too many horror stories on that one.
Quick question Richard, I thought my car was 'hydractive' due to the suspension being hydraulic, or have I been misinformed in the past??
D
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Only VSX and Exclusive Xantias were fitted with Hydractive 2 systems. There's also the Activa but that's even more involved.
Steve.
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Xantia HDi.
XM 2.1 VSX.
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Many thanks to all that replied.
Had a look last night at the link rod and all is in place as it should be. There was a lot of rust along the rear suspension components, so I have sprayed with WD40 to losen it up and will get back underneath tonight to clear some of the rust off before treating with oil. The ride is a lot better and I think the rear may have been sitting down slightly as my head light beam seems a lot lower.
Thanks once again to you all
D
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Hi, Only just found this site. I've had my 1999 Xantia HDI Exclusive for 3 years or so and enjoyed it greatly. Currently have (I think) a problem mentioned by other forum subscribers. Ride is really good except when handling country road bumps or (non-) level crossings at any decent speed. The rear end feels solid and jarring. From what I've read - and I read the whole of the discussion the other evening - I need a new rear centre sphere. I've checked the ride height mechanism, all seems fine, though the front end is usually last to rise and first to drop. Where do you get cheap spheres? I have seen them at Neat Autos for about £19, which seems a good price, but they mention pressures and the Haynes manual doesn't. So which sphere is precharged to which pressure - do you know?
Thanks in advance - any help appreciated.
Rich S
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I would suggest that you go to a local Citroen independant or look at someone like Pleides or GSF for a replacement. There are a variety of different pressures for different spheres depending upon where they are fitted on the car.
I have never changed a sphere, myself, but have seen it done by my local indi. (They usually fit free).
Have you got a Haynes manual?
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You find that if you go over a large enough bump fast enough the Hydractive ECU will switch out the centre sphere to protect the car and ensure that the handling isn't too badly affected. I use GSF for my spheres. The application table can be found here - www.gsfcarparts.com/downloads/sphere_table.pdf
Generally they're around £20 + VAT.
Steve.
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Xantia HDi Exclusive.
XM 2.1 VSX.
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Cheers guys, when I went searching on the net I realised what the line about GSF I'd seen in various messages meant, and found a branch in Norwich.
Having purchased my new sphere (N45354) from them, I tried to fit it today, but just could not shift the old one. Had a really good strap wrench, with a good long arm, but no joy. Also gave it a few taps in various directions. Have applied the WD40 and will try again tomorrow after an overnight soak. Otherwise, have you heard of any other methods? Gentle heat on the housing is a possibility but a bit dodgy and uncertain.
And yes, it cost £22 odd inc the dreaded VAT.
Once I've mastered the removal process I will slowly replace them all, I think.
Good driving
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Forgot to say, yes I've got the Haynes manual, but it's somewhat vague on the hydraulics/suspension, and of ourse sphere replacement is so simple (I'm sure it should be). It was good for changing the fluid, though, which I did last April.
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The last resort for a stubborn sphere removal is to drill a hole all the way through large enough to put a tommy bar or similar tool to use as a lever.
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Right, time to get aggressive, then. Haven't yet re-tried it after the WD40 soak, but a chain looks like a good investment, or a bit of DIY. Drilling would be the final frontier, I'm thinking. I could always take off the entire mounting assembly and separate them at the bench.
All part of the fun of being a Citroen owner - I do like the French sense of humour, though....
Thanks for guidance, glad to know the knowledge is around.
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Hi, I am wondering if any of you can help me identify a problem with my Xantia.
I have an S reg 1.9 TD.
Reading on this forum, I have been suffering like some others have. I have had my car for 7 months, until a month ago I had not had any problems, now it is one thing after another.
Any way, I am writting to ask if anyone can diagnose a rear suspension problem that Iam hving (as of today).
I noticed when my wife drove the car last night, that the suspension did not seem to be at it's normal level, so this morning, I raised it, then lowered it. When raising it, the rear suspension seemed to stick on it's max setting, and did not want to come down. I then went down the various settings until I got to the low setting. The rear then came down, but has since stuck there, and will not rise back up.
Is it a probable sphere problem or something more sinister.
Any help/advice would be more than welcome.
Thanks
Mark
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It sounds like rear height corrector problems, it may be siezed up. Read this reply posted earlier up this thread.
Xantia Suspension - RichardW Wed 7 Mar 07 15:21
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It could well be the plastic 'dog bone' that's popped off the height corrector.
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Xantia HDi Exclusive.
XM 2.1 VSX.
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mim & glowplug, many thanks for your responses, they are much apreciated.
Unfortunately I am not a mechanic... Give me a pc problem and I will find the solution, but car mechanics scare me.
I have got my head around the fact that the rear height adjuster is problematic over a period of time, but the probable diagnosis that you have both given, are these easy to resolve? Or is it a case of a mechanic dealing with it ?
I have booked the car in to a local ini Citroen garage, but if I can save myself some money, I am willing to try to fix myself. (Not at the garage until next week)....
Secondly, If it is best take it to the garage, how safe is it to drive (silly question i KNOW) Just looking for clarification that I may need my Green Flag membership to tow it their. But if it is safe to drive (avoiding pot holes) I,e. not causing any further damage to suspension, then I would prefer to drive it their.
Any advice would be great.
Once again.... Thanks for your help.
Mark
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See if it will rise by setting the height lever to its highest. If it does, try cycling it up and down a few times. It may decide to play ball. If it doesn't, drive it slowly to the indi, preferably in daylight.(The lights will be out of kilter).
If it is the height corrector the bill we probably be about £150.
Whereabouts in the country are you?
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On this drawing, the dog bone is item 6 -
farm1.static.flickr.com/155/427351291_651f195f77_o...f
The dog bones are only a couple of pounds (less than £3!) from a dealer. However what you need to sort out is why it's popped off, if it has. Usually it's down to a lack of maintenance, the whole height corrector and linkage should be lubricated with spray grease at least twice a year. If it's seized up then you'll have to free it off first with a penetrating oil then use spray grease. Also moving the manual height corrector to adjust the cars height once or twice a week will stop things getting too stiff.
Hydraulic Citroens aren't the devils they are made out to be but please be careful, they have and do kill people that crawl under them without using supports. If working under a Citroen you must either support the car with axle stands or better still use ramps. Just take care.
Good luck.
Steve.
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Xantia HDi Exclusive.
XM 2.1 VSX.
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Right, I made a wrench-type tool using 6mm threaded rod and a huge bar, and managed to shift the sphere, but the result is that there is no difference in the ride - the rear still bounces over uneven roads, crossings etc. I'm not tearing around, but 45 -50 on Norfolk backroads is quite fast!
Things move slowly here, I have to wait for access to my local garage's lift.
I'm wondering what my next move should be and invite opinions......... it must be a sphere, but which one?
The one I changed is the rear hydractive one between the suspension and the height corrector spheres.
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Ok, when I said 'height corrector' sphere I meant 'anti-sink' sphere. I confess to some confusion with these.
Does anyone have or know where there is, a proper diagram or, better still, a schematic for the system?
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I have a 97 1.8i 16V (updated model) and am not sure whether I have a problem or not with the suspension.
I have had the car 15 months and have covered about 15000miles. For several months up to February 07 I could feel the car getting harder at the rear and finally plucked up the courage to replace the rear spheres.
It was a doddle and changing the rear spheres fixed the problem!!
But for many months I have had a ticking noise from the front, every second or so, gets worse if I put my foot on the brake (car stationary, first thing after starting the car from cold). This ticking has been going on for 10000 miles, I just don't know whether to leave it or whether to look into it. Putting new rear spheres on has had no effect on this ticking.
Sometimes the car does lose some height (not much, usually at the front) when it is parked up.
What is the worst thing that could happen with the hydraulic system? Is it possible to lose brakes?
Hope someone can reassure.
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The ticking will be the pressure regulator cutting in/out.
It should only tick every 5 to 10 seconds once the car has stabilised & no further demands by any hydraulics.
Attached to the regulator will be another sphere which holds a reserve of fluid at pressure.
This will have lost nearly all its nitrogen & so also needs to be changed.
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Thanks so much, I will have a go at this.
Do I proceed as with the rear spheres or is there something crucial I should know................?
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Exactly as rear spheres - engine running, suspension into low, allow to settle for a minute or so, then switch off. Undo the 12mm bleed bolt on the pressure regulator (1.5 turns only!). Remove the sphere - this is best done from underneath, so best to get the front on ramps before you depressure the suspension. Often tight and access is limited, so you might need to attack it with a cold chisel to shift it. If the undertray in still in place you might need to remove this, and this often requires the services of an angle grinder as the 'captive' nuts in the subframe will no longer be.... If you're near Manchester, Westroen will change it for you for £25.
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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If the ride is harsh on a Hydractive Xantia then it can be either the strut spheres or the Hydractive sphere or both or the electronics aren't activating the Hydractive valves. Are you sure you changed the anti sink sphere or could it have been the Hydractive sphere?
Have a look here - homepages.igrin.co.nz/simon/images/citroen/manuals...f
If changing the hydractive sphere be very careful, if the Hydractive valve doesn't open there could be 170 Bars of pressure trapped in there even if you have depressurised the rest of the system.
Steve.
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Xantia HDi Exclusive.
XM 2.1 VSX.
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Just to update..................
changed front centre sphere as per instructions. Ticking noise has fallen from twice a second to once a minute. Result!
Bought a chain wrench to do it, managed without removing tray but chain was difficult to fit because of the closeness of the sphere to the (gearbox?). But in just one position it could be tightened and pulled. Sphere came off quite easily.
New one from GSF Brum perfect. But a long way to go to from Bergerac (SW France)!
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Hi Phill you reciently sent the following message.
David W will be right. Get the lubricant on those linkages before paying for a new height corrector. I've gone 500,000 miles on a couple of BXs and Xantias without a height corrector going wrong. And if you want instructions on how to service a HC I can e-mail you an excellent step by step article by Anders Jensen
PhilW
please would you forward the the email by Anders as i have the same problem.
many thanks.
geoff
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Not so recently!! 2002!
Article is here
www.geocities.com/citroen_bx/FAQ/faq_sus_003.html
Good luck!
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Phil
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P.S. Geoff,
Make sure you support the car very well on axle stands/ramps or similar (NOT a jack) before starting any work on suspension - a Xantia is VERY HEAVY - don't want you squashed!
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Phil
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Hi Guys, I just found this forum as my Xantia decided to have a sit down protest yesterday. You certainly seem to know what you're talking about!
The front is behaving itself fine, but the back refused to rise to the normal level. When I tried raising it to the highest position it slowly complied, but decided to stay there, even overnight.
I invested in some axle stands today (I don't take your warning lightly!) and had a look underneath. The U shaped metal rod is coroded and has sheared off. This is connected to what I assume to be the rear height controller by the well named dog bone!
Can you advise me whether it is a simple thing to replace, where I might get a replacement from, and if you know of a good citroen mechanic in the Portsmouth area?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Dave
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Dave,
Suggest you post across on frenchcarforum.co.uk
Replacing the height corrector is not too bad - depending on the age of the car and hence how bad the pipe unions are. The worst pitfall is reversing the feed and return pipes which makes things interesting! New HCs available from GSF car parts, re-con units from Plaeides. You're probably looking the region of £150 fitted.
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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Hi Guys..... Need some help for a Suspension Problem with my Xantia.
When I move the height lever from 'Normal Height' to the next (a bit higher ride height) 'Drivable' level, it rises to the maximum level - front and back! So if I move again the lever to the maximum, it does not go any higher! It's like at the moment the lever has 3 settings not 4! (All Low - OK, Drive - OK, a bit higher - goes to full height!!, Highest - OK)
Everything else looks normal when driving etc.
Any ideas?
Would really appriciate!
Thanks,
Stefan
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Not a specific answer but I would be looking at the height corrector linkage and height correctors to start with. The level and cleanliness of the fluid would be next.
Are you certain that it goes to the maximum and isn't stuck on next one down?
Have you tried Citrobics?(Going from maximum to minimum about 10 times continuously)
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If your suspension works fine in low, medium (normal drive height) and high i would not be to concerned with this level, it really is not used, ive had my xantia for nearly 4 years and never used this level.
Always good to do citrobics now and again as it keeps the HC operational whilst simultaneously retuning any dirt to the reservoir filters.
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