Motorists, cyclists and pedestrians are to have their say on the way British road signs should look in the future.
The Department for Transport is carrying out its biggest review of traffic signs in 40 years.
It says it wants to use the latest technology to cut congestion and emissions, and improve safety, without cluttering the streets.
Transport Minister Rosie Winterton has also invited highways bodies and road users' groups to give their views.
She said: "Road conditions have changed dramatically over the years and road signs need to keep pace with that change to provide the best information possible to all road users."
The review aims to ensure that out-of-date signs are removed, technology is used to improve traffic flow, more up-to-date travel information is made available and accident rates are reduced.
Reduce congestion
AA President Edmund King said: "Clear, concise, relevant road signs help reduce congestion, CO2, frustration and accidents.
"Confusing signs do the opposite, so we welcome a root and branch review of the UK's traffic signing system."
A steering group will meet next month to draw up plans for the review, which will be conducted next year
Re comments from above.
It says it wants to use the latest technology and..
road signs need to keep pace with that change to provide the best information possible to all road users."
How about the local council using hedge shears to reveal local traffic signs, road names etc.
Ask for interested road users ( IAM maybe to start with?) to provide a running commentary on the lack of, badly positioned, inconsistent, missing, grafittied road signs.
Fix the above first before any wizzy latest tecky stuff.
An example: Unless things have recently changed.
On THe A27 past Chichester ( a busy UK and foreign holiday route)
A good red A & E hospital sign pointing off the road and into Chichester.
That is a good start especially if you are stressed and in a hurry to get there.
Then there are no more signs until you are a few yards from the entrance.
If you ever need to use this route the follow the grinning brown mask signs through all the roundabouts ( towards the theatre) and finally the red hospital sign will appear.
The first requirement - fix what you already have - is not rocket science.
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A few suggestions:
1. Limit "animals" warning signs to one or two, e.g. wild / domestic or perhaps slow / fast moving.
2. Specific speed limit signs at danger spots - rather than having to (quickly) count the chevrons on a bend or the ubiquitous "SLOW" sign which is inevitably open to interpretation. Likewise, an end to that wretched "!" sign - !!!!!
3. Drop that "Evel Knievel" sign (no motor cars or motorcycles allowed). It was a bad choice. It's ridiculous. Let's put it right now!
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A few suggestions:
3. Drop that "Evel Knievel" sign (no motor cars or motorcycles allowed). It was a bad choice. It's ridiculous. Let's put it right now!
A variant on the 'no entry' sign would be better, because it would make it clear that motorised vehicles are not allowed to enter, then you could have 'except cycles' or 'except for delivery' or whatever in smaller letters underneath.
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Much clutter could be removed by getting rid of all direction signs, which are no longer needed since everyone has satnav. (And it would then be much easier to stop any invasion simply by switching off the satellites, without any need for an emergency sign-removal exercise as happened in WWII)
The next step would be to remove all the road clutter which isn't signs, viz. the ANPR and traffic monitoring camera systems which are sprouting so fast beside the roads that they must either be self-reproducing (like an amoeba) or have amazing sex-lives.
Then replace all other signs with smaller devices containing no symbol, just a reprint of the relevant section of the highway code. That'll weed out drivers with inadequate eyesight (and probably also cut congestion by eliminating anyone without a telescope in the car).
All of those brown signs to tourist attractions should be demolished forthwith. They disfigure the landscape, and if people aren't smart enough to figure out that there is something in the area they want to see (google it, fer goodnessake) then they are unlikely to appreciate it enough to make it worthwhile to guide them to it.
All speed camera warning signs should go, and be replaced with those light-up boards that say you are going too fast ... thereby bringing an end to complaints that a camera is sneaky.
Finally, to promote linguistic skills, the language of road signs should be changed at random. If drivers have to be fluent in French, Urdu, Chinese, German, Norwegian, Punjabi and a smattering of Polynesian dialects before sitting their test, congestion can be eliminated within a decade.
Finally. displayboard signs on motorways should be required to use more wit and sarcasm. Replacing those "fog in the road warnings" would be no safety loss (because if there is fog the signs are un-needed, and most of the time the warnings are simply wrong; and their replacement without gratuitous insults to drivers would reduce driver boredom on long journeys.
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since everyone has satnav.
I haven't got satnav, and I know lots of other people who haven't. I don't suppose I'll get satnav until I buy a car which already has it fitted.
Edited by L'escargot on 13/09/2008 at 08:02
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I think NowWheels was being slightly TIC there :-)
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A way to make traffic flow more efficient....remove all the foliage and sight blocking boards from roundabouts and the approaches to them, enable one to see when the road is clear or not before getting there and hey presto clear road.
And turn off roundabout control lights when not needed, sometimes have to wait 5 minutes at my nearest traffic light controlled roundabout at 4am for no one at all.
Difficult to know quite how to sign any differently, there are some exceedingly thick drivers out there, approach a junction knowing full well they are turning right and then start there manoeuvre from the left hand side of the road at the junction itself, doesn't matter how good the signs are, this type will always cause mayhem.
Ban sat nav too, overrated toy..;)
Arn't we all glad the kids are back at school, the roads are so clear now that mummies are ferrying the things about again....
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Something councils might do is to concentrate some signage on to one post, instead of automatically digging a new hole and erecting another one. In some places there are dozens of the d...d things, each one another obstacle to be crashed into.
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Road furniture needs to be looked at and how people place illegal home made\company advertising signs in dangerous places too.
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Amazing, isn't it, that when the country is in deep do-do and the government hasn't the vaguest idea of what to do next, they come up with some initiative that will take people's eye off the ball.
Signage isn't always good but I'd rather money were spent on potholes and on considering what cut-backs could be made so that tax on car owners could be reduced.
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I think the 'derestricted' or 'national speed limit sign' should be abolished and replaced with '60' or '70' as appropriate. This is the situation in other countries, like France and Ireland, where every stretch of main road has a marked limit.
Also, every roundabout or traffic-light junction outside a 30 zone should be protected by a 30 limit on the immediate approach.
I don't think our roadsigns need a major redesign, they are good signs, but updating and new signs where needed.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 13/09/2008 at 16:43
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Sorry, have to personnally disagree on these.
I think the 'derestricted' or 'national speed limit sign' should be abolished and replaced with '60' or '70' as appropriate.
On the face of it, it could be sensible, as too many read the NSL sign as mimse along at 40. The NSL sign does have different meaning to non-car users than 60 or 70.
I thought France generally used the type of road to indicate the limit, meaning they have fewer speed limit signs than us. Autoroutes have the limit posted, but I recall a lack of signs indicating the 90 limit on rural roads.
Also every roundabout or traffic-light junction outside a 30 zone should be protected by a 30 limit on the immediate approach.
I can see that people need to take care but does a signed speed reduction need to be applied? Isn't backing off if needed because of the danger sufficient.
In both cases above, it would be penalising everyone with clutter of signage and impeded progress to cater for the relative few who can't be bothered to know the rules of the road or drive with regard to the conditions.
I don't think our roadsigns need a major redesign they are good signs but updating and new signs where needed.
Agree with you there.
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mabe we should just mark the roads differently for different speed limits i.e a single white line down the middle for 30, then alternating short and long dashes for 40 etc it would also get rid of the old 'i didnt see the speed sign' when idiots are stopped by the police
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Clarkson is running a campaign on TG at the moment and I had to laugh at one of the signs he wanted to get rid of.
SIGN NOT IN USE.
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I'd simplify bus lanes. Get rid of the restriction signs - they're too difficult to read while driving along, and add to roadside clutter. Instead have different coloured road surfaces or different coloured bus lane lettering to show the restriction times, e.g. Red - 24/7; Yellow 7am - 7pm Mon-Fri; Green, peak times only 7am - 10am, 4pm - 7pm, Mon-Fri.
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Ravenger
What colour for 7am - 10am only ?
We already have colured bus lanes and red route single red and double red lines.
I like bus lanes I use them frequently cos I read the signs and the cruise them alone. :-)))
I think the sign posted on local buses "£120 fine for using bus lanes" scares most drivers so they never venture in bus lanes.
As I have mentioned before one of the most informative signs I have ever seem was
the familiar triange with ! in it and the words "Trees removed".
Thank goodness the sign has also been removed but I have a photo of it.
We also have a 30 mph road approaching a T junction then a NSL then thirty feet later another 30mph limit which applies on the left turn but NSL on a blind Z bend over a hump backed bridge.
I await some action after this review. :-((
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Ravenger What colour for 7am - 10am only ? We already have colured bus lanes and red route single red and double red lines.
We do, but there's no consistency in colouration throughout the UK. Sometimes they're red, sometimes they're green and the times vary considerably.
If we stuck with for example, three types of bus lane with specific time restrictions then colour coding them would be easy, and it'd be easier for drivers to comply with, especially now that cctv bus lane enforcement is being rolled out country wide.
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Bit hopeless for colour blind drivers...
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the familiar triange with ! in it and the words "Trees removed
Ths remind me of my favourite sign "Cats eyes removed" often seen in roadworks in these parts. Suprised the animal rights people don't object. Once seen surreally located in roadworks just after the turn off to the small village of Cat's Common
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Rumble strips across the road as you approach a restricted area and, after observing the speed limit, being rumbled again as you leave the area because they don't have the brains to paint only half way across the road.
Go slower stripes that get closer together as you get nearer an island. After you have seen them a couple of times, and programmed your brain, they become an unwanted distraction to normal driving with no benefit. At least not to me. Mostly you check with the speedo anyway to avoid being too complacent after some fast motoring.
The route signs that do not exist until you reach the roundabout. Then you have to spend too much time sorting out your route. Especially if one-ways are involved.
Long distances before a speed limit repeater sign. Miss the initial one then go a long way before knowing what the limit is.
Lane markings done badly. -- two examples near me. 1) A road layout modification resulted in too small a width for the curved nearside lane of three, where it goes round to the right and runs past the first left turn. Bad car drivers at that junction have often halted over their stop line by a foot or more and with the narrow width running you close it can get scary when the middle lane traffic it also crowding you 2) Another large disparity in the widths of a set of curved lane marking elsewhere. I think someone left their glasses behind. Where is the supervisor? (is/are correction)
Edited by buzbee on 14/09/2008 at 01:24
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Re. my earlier post about abolishing de-restricted signs and replacing them with 60 or 70 as appropriate. The argument I've heard against this is that it extinguishes any last hope of national speed limits being raised. But that's not the case - in fact the opposite.
If every stretch of main road was subject to a marked limit rather than a blanket NSL, that would leave the way clear, in theory, for a few selected stretches of motorway to have 80 mph limits. Unlikely, yes, but possible.
Re. having 30mph protection zones at all roundabouts and traffic lights. I'm thinking particularly of traffic light junctions on suburban dual carriageways, where vehicles rush through the green lights at 40 or 50 mph and above. I've always though these to be very dangerous.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 15/09/2008 at 11:53
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news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7628908.stm
I agree about the 'give way to oncoming traffic' being the least obvious road sign
"A triangular sign has points and represents danger"
"Rectangular signs are the same shape as a book and therefore give information"
"Round signs are instructional. They look like the end of a pointing finger giving you an instruction."
That all sounds like somebody inventing theory to explain an historic accident to me ;-)
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What is the point of signs warning of possible deer on the road and risk of falling rocks? There is nothing you can actually do to mitigate the risk. If you go along the road, at any speed whatsoever you might hit a deer or a rock might hit you. As for warnings about frogs, hedgehogs and squirrels - if I am on the road they can take their chances!
Edited by Armitage Shanks {p} on 25/09/2008 at 15:40
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These signs mean more in some places than in others. Took a long-distance taxi in Algeria once when it had been raining, through a semi-mountainous area. The mountains were made of mixed earth and rock, and in very heavy rain runnels of water would gouge out rocks that would then roll down the mountainside. The road was recently rebuilt and good, but cautious driving necessary to get round all the rocks on the road. One of them was the size of a small car and must have weighed two or three tons, standing on end in the middle of the carriageway.
In Ceylon as a child I can remember at least two occasions driving at night when the road was literally covered with migrating frogs. It was impossible to drive at all without running over hundreds of them.
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You are right of course Lud. I had not thought of the possibility of fallen rocks lying in the road waiting for you! If the French can eat frogs I guess it is OK for us to run them over!
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We need 'Minimum Speed Limit' signs and underneath 'No Mimsers'.
Crawlers, ditherers and mimsers will be prosecuted and their vehicles crushed!
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How about the local council using hedge shears to reveal local traffic signs road names etc.
Menial jobs like that should be done by chain-gangs of convicts as per Cool Hand Luke. It might help them to "get their minds right".
Edited by L'escargot on 26/09/2008 at 16:13
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Cool Hand Luke... yeah... martyr to the cause of the urban motorist...
How should the remake open? Luke drunk and stoned, spraying the lenses of speed and junction and bus-lane cameras with black paint, or blinding them with a pocket laser?
Edited by Lud on 26/09/2008 at 16:30
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