I figure it would be polite to carry this one on in a separate thread :-)
>>I can't say I've ever seen anything like this. If you are not exagerating then I can only assume the one you've seen was an isolated case.<<
Maybe you havent seen enough cars then. I clean a 645i which has the surface peeling off round the i drive, same on a 520i and again on a 535d.
The 535d has just 35k on the clock and the ashtray is broken, the glovebox catch needs a helluva slam to get it to catch and the door handles have worn through the original surface.
The 520i has two broken cup holders that tend to rest under the passenger seat these days and the plastic moulding on he drivers seat has come adrift.
On all these cars the leather on the drivers seat had worn and surface flaked off.
I work with car interiors every day and its is a peculiar issue that seems to also occur on Audis and to a lesser extent VW's. Any area that gets even moderate impact with a human being seems to deteriorate rapidly.
Its why a BMW 645i is not only ugly, but a huge disappointment qualitywise and why if that is the standard of so called quality cars, id rather have a cheap one thanks!
I actually like german cars and the image of them, I really do, but they can be shockingly fragile when subjected to normal day to day use. It seems to be this devotion to rubberised finishes thats is the problem as they appear to be covering up hard plastic beneath, which after a short while is what you end up with anyway.
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My VW door pulls for example.... Flaking rubber looked very basty
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...and on the other hand...
I have a BMW 530d which is now 2 1/2 years old and has 140,000km on the clock. It is a business tool and does not get molly coddled. I do 1000km a week in a mixture of high speed autobahn and stuck in traffic city driving. At the last service, the BMW dealership cleaned the car inside and out (something I rarely bother with) and, apart from some stone chips around the grill, it looked like new. The paintwork has an unbelievable mirror finish and the only visible signs of wear on the interior are around the ignition key slot. Even the leather on the driver's seat shows no signs of wear, which surprised me because in my experience leather is far less robust than cloth as a seat covering.
I got caught in a hail storm the other week where the hail stones were approximately 3cm across and I seriously thought the windscreen was going to get broken. The only visible impact on the paintwork afterwards was that all the dead flies had been removed.
According to my predecessor who I inherited the car from, it's never had any repair work done to it outside of regular maintenance. I'm actually so impressed with it, I've just ordered another as my next company car.
I'm sure if really tried I could also break the cup holders, pull the trim off the seats and, if really determined, break off an indicator stalk or something. However this would be akin to vandalism.
The wear on the armrests thing is something I've seen on every car my mother has owned, whether Ford, Vauxhall, VW or Toyota. Her present Astra looks like it's been driven by Edward Scissorhands. I really don't know how she manages this.
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The wear on the armrests thing is something I've seen on every car ..... really don't know how she manages this.
Dare I suggest this as a possibility: abrasive watch or jewellery ?
re. BMW quality. A friend visited Brooklands Mercedes-Benz world recently. He was appalled to see the degree of damage to various bits of switches and interior trim on the brand new cars on show there.
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Dare I suggest this as a possibility: abrasive watch or jewellery ?
Yes, I had thought of that, but the damage is always to the driver's door panel in a right hand drive car and my mother wears her watch and rings on her left hand.
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It's bound to be the keys. She'll be holding her keys in her right hand as she grabs and closes the driver's door once inside. My wife does this and it drives me mental - the driver's door panel of her Touran is shredded, and there are multiple scratches on the outside as she also insists on opening the door from outside with keys in right hand, ignition key already flipped out. She just keeps stabbing and scratching the door with it.
When we come to change the car, she'll then moan about it not being worth much.
Edited by Alanovich on 05/09/2008 at 14:23
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Definately keys, especially if they are on a larger bunch. My wife is also very good at slinging her handbag into the passnger seat footwell. All those metal buckles and clasps are bound to make contact with plastic eventually.
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Hadn't thought of the keys. Probably as I deliberately keep the car key separate from the bunch of house keys due to once (20 years ago) having an ignition key lock fail, allegedly due to the weight of 5 or 6 keys on a key ring wearing it out.
Will pass the message on, probably to no avail as she still, without fail, also scratches every car windscreen due to wiping the condensation off with her left hand, on which she wears her diamond engagement ring. Bless.
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Mesage for Stun...
Driving through Cambridge recently I saw a van with a picture of a light aircraft on the back, and a name (can't remember details) implying they cleaned aircraft (and also cars). Maybe something you could investigate for yourself?
Edited by Aretas on 05/09/2008 at 16:30
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>>A friend visited Brooklands Mercedes-Benz world recently. He was appalled to see the degree of damage to various bits of switches and interior trim on the brand new cars on show there.
I've just had a small dent removed from my Legacy by local specialist - it took him a while and the final step was a polish to flatten out a minute, hardly visible rise in the paintwork by taking off a few microns of top coat - apparently. Have to say he was a bit rude about the thinness of the metal used on Subaru door skins! He was more disparaging about new BMWs. A lot of his work comes from local BMW dealers with cars damaged by shoddy valeting prior to collection - makes his Friday afternoons extremely busy. Apparently the orange peel effect on the paintwork makes it difficult for him to polish out the very last imperfections because it improves the quality of the finish making the damage repair area appear higher quality than the rest of the paintwork. Checked out my daughter in law's brand new 1 series this afternoon and he's right about the orange peel.
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brand new 1 series this afternoon and he's right about the orange peel.
They just need wet sanding: tinyurl.com/6hezbs . Cost £500+
Apparently people have been rejecting M3's as they're so bad.
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I'm no big fan of BMWs, but it has always been the case that good bodyshops can do a better finish than the factory, whatever the make.
The challenge for the really good paint sprayer is to match the factory finish.
By the way, orange peel generally means too much paint - better than too little.
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Low quality on BMW's? No no no.
They must surely have been Alfa Romeos, and you've got mixed up ;)
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My 199,800mile V70 has very little leather on the steering wheel (at a guess due to the previous owner wearing rings which have scratched the top layer off) and the drivers door seals are a bit picked (just where you'd reach up to if you're driving with the window open)
Otherwise the only things that tell me it's that mileage are some broken speaker grills in the D pillars, and the radio display not being backlit (but that might be because 8 kayak paddles hit it one day...)
The paint is still shiny where it's the original (the bumpers are nicely patina'd) excpet for on the drivers door edge where it's a bit scratched, again probably due to rings, and anywhere that I've dropped kayaks and canoes on it (hence the dent in the roof...)
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The highest mileage BMW I had was my X plated 330d (E46) - the only thing that broke on it was the lid on the First Aid box under the passenger seat - a cheap and nasty plastic hinge of the worst kind. I have a feeling that I broke it one night with a my foot after a "couple". It was replaced with an E-Bay item which, after the very high quality First Aid kit was re-packed apparently survives to this day (the car has nigh on 150k on it by now). The ls time I saw the car this summer it was completely unblemished inside, the only betrayal of age is the alumiiumized plastic on the driver's door where small areas have scrubbed off where my watch or car keys came into contact with it as I exited - I'm left handed. The rest of the car has stood up well to neglect - the silver paint comes up with a deep lustre when properly cleaned, despite living outdoors for all its life.
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The cars Im talking about are 2006/07 models, maybe the very latest have addressed the issue, lets hope so.
Thing is though, in the 80's and even 90's, it was often well past 100k before your average owner could make a german car look worn inside. Now it seems to have dropped to anywhere from 20k onwards. Id accept a few man-made scratches on trim, it happens, but not actual wear - trim should be fit for purpose.
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I think they have been patchy right back to the 1970s. e.g. In the 1980s they suffered sheared driver's seat springs, chrome flaking off bumper corner caps but not the rest of bumper, terrible quality dashboard under steering wheel where headlight switch was (before later ones had the round rotary switch). In the 1990s they had interior fittings fixtures and switch caps that broke and fell off. The paintwork always used to be first class, but I too have noticed it get worse recently. Also, on that subject, someone at work has just bought a nice looking new black Alfa Romeo, and the paint looks like Hammmerite.
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The metallic black paintwork on my Dad's E90 BMW is lousy as people have said. The same on my non metallic chilli red MINI Cooper. However, driving both they feel hewn from granite so I'm not bothered. My old 07 plate Ibiza had similarly rubbish orange peel paint work.
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"the paint looks like Hammmerite"
Are you sure it isn't? It does cover rust well.. :-)
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Thing is though in the 80's and even 90's it was often well past 100k before your average owner could make a german car look worn inside. Now it seems to have dropped to anywhere from 20k onwards.
Maybe the "average owner" of a german car and their behaviour nowadays is different to how they were 20 yrs ago ;)
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I think plastic durability has taken a dive with the requirement in some countries (notably Germany) to make it more recyclable or, indeed, to be recycled itself. My Nokia phone comes in an alternative version that is made of 'greener' plastic, and it already has a reputation for falling to bits. By contrast, my eco-unfriendly one seems indestructible and is therefore greener than its counterpart, as it won't need replacing nearly so soon!
I think we forget how durable car interiors normally are, especially given the conditions they often have to suffer, especially direct sunlight and the subsequent heat in summer (well, not this one, obviously). The interiors of both our old Mazdas, combined age 34, clean up beautifully, the only clue to their history being the odometers and the pedal rubbers.
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Thing is, my mums Hyundai Coupe is now 3 years old, has 37k on the clock yet the leather has no visable wear aside from a couple of minor creases, the interior door pulls, despite having a rubberised coating combined with fake alu have not worn visably at all and scratches aside, there are no signs of wear anywhere.
Infact give it a hoover and wipe with a damp cloth and you would struggle to guess it had more than 10k on the clock, yet it is not spared any task, not treated with any reverence, just serviced on time and cleaned every three months or so.
Its got the soft touch dashboard ( I checked! ) fake alu, rubberised bits, leather etc etc but Hyundai seem to be quite capable of choosing materials that arent pathetically fragile. BMW especially need to pull their socks up and actually sell cars that justify the higher prices and since a Mondeo is a great drive, quality and that extra special feel is all there is left and they cant get that right.
that said - how long has an average Mondeo been 20 grand? madness!
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Its got the soft touch dashboard ( I checked! ) fake alu rubberised bits leather etc etc but Hyundai seem to be quite capable of choosing materials that arent pathetically fragile.
Nonononononono. Hyundais aren't well made! They're made out of Mr Kipling cake holders, remember? Not like these German cars which are made from pure Kryptonite...
My Nokia phone [...] seems indestructible <<
Hmmm. Nokia... indestructible... now there's a novel concept ;)
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Maybe german cars are made of Kryptonite, however, it would appear they buy it from the Russians...
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