I'm after a nearly new X5 and been watching prices on AutoTrader.They are softening quickly and have often lost about £10,000 in a year!
I will wait a little longer though.
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I'm after a nearly new X5 and been watching prices on AutoTrader.They are softening quickly
Not nearly new I know, but a work colleague picked up a truly mint (two bonnet stone chips and that is it!) X5 4.8iS on an 02 plate, with 77,000 miles, four new Michelins, a full BMW history, every conceivable extra (Xenons, TV, sat nav, rear seat DVD entertainment system etc etc) for £7,500 privately earlier this year. Buried inside the documentation was the original purchase invoice for £57,000!
I've been in it, and frankly to get a car of this size, quality, performance and price for this money seems almost illegal. OK, it does 16 mpg, but its a toy. It gets driven at weekends, or occasionally to work if the weather's too foul to cycle. Sounds like a NASCAR, goes and handles like something of this size has no right to, and is genuinely wonderful in an "I wouldn't want to own it, but I can see why he does" way. :-)
Most of all, in his own words, it winds up the tree huggers, and he says that in itself has given him many hours of entertainment.
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If you really do want a proper full sized 4x4, probably the best and certainly the most reliable will be the Toyota Amazon, recently new model released with V8 twin turbo diesel with huge torque, but the previous model is extremely capable and very long lived.
Its also the one that will sell for a decent price when your time with it is done, its tough enough to be used for anything, luxurious enough for anyone without being brash, and you won't get turned over by the dealers at service time, and you won't find one on every new build executive estate.
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I bought a new XC90 a few months back. Great car, but although I am a huge Volvo fan I would never have paid the UK£35 grand-odd list price for it. I now see that Volvo are marketing an entry-level model for UK£29,995 with a diesel engine.
Why do Volvo seem to charge even more for their thirsty petrol-engined XC90s than the D5 diesel version? Most car manufacturers do the opposite.
And how come the £35-grand list-price-in-the-UK car cost me under £21 grand in the Middle East?! That kind of price difference is not all tax, so who's on the make?!
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That kind of price difference is not all tax, so who's on the make?!
The fixed costs of operating a business in the UK can be daunting. Rates, rent, water, electricity, gas, bureaucracy [elf & safety, trading standards, waste disposal and environmental charges, consumer protection laws, bank charges, accountancy fees, public liability insurance, minimum wages, NI costs, pension costs, maternity & paternity leave, minimum holidays*, etc. etc. ]
* There is a minimum right to paid holiday. The main things you should know about holiday rights are:
you are entitled to a minimum of 4.8 weeks (from 1 October 2007)
the entitlement will increase again to 5.6 weeks from 1 April 2009
.. under £21 grand in the Middle East?!
Because they don't have most of the overheads listed above, and they employ "slave" labour from the Indian subcontinent.
Edited by jbif on 01/09/2008 at 16:23
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OP: We 'need' 4wd before the next winter
If you need genuine 4wd ability, you can discount most of your shortlist. If you ever intend selling it on, think diesel and some level of practical ability. So of those mentioned in this thread so far: Landcruiser, Discovery, Range Rover.
Of these, the only one I'd spend my own money on is the Toyota, much as I liked the look of the last model disco and current RR Sport.
If you need 7 seats, most smaller 4x4s or 4WD estates are out. But how about a Nissan Pathfinder or Kia Sorrento? The Kia is a tidy-looking capable car, won't have nearly as much money tied up in it, and will still appeal to practical users should you ever need to sell on.
You could always spend the change on a powerboat to tow behind it and enjoy the pleasure of tearing up fivers under a cold shower (aka yacht racing) for yourself :-)
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Valid points jbif, but does all this add up to 15 grands' worth of savings?! They must be getting stock from the factory/importer for around 19 grand apiece!
And most of the salesmen in the dealership out here are Brits, btw, presumably earning as much or more than they would be back in UK dealerships, so no slave labour there?!
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Out of all the vehicles mentioned, I'd buy a Land Cruiser Amazon. It's likely to be more reliable and better screwed together than just about anything else.
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Looking on Autotrader today i see that the prices of the Q7 are dropping at quite an alarming rate. The lowest priced car on a national search is now only £21000. Someone has taken a big hit on that car. A friend in work has one and paid just over 47k last year. Wonder what its worth now?
Edited by 02skn on 01/09/2008 at 18:59
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Stopped at Warwick services for a coffee and leg stretch, was thoroughly entertained for the best part of 5 minutes watching a chap trying to park a Q7. He waited until he found two adjacent spaces and plonked it, diagonally across the middle after several unsuccessful attempts at fitting into one space. Don't think it is an ideal "city car", I haven't seen the figures but I would guess that the height/length/girth/turning circle would prevent it from fitting into many multi storey parks etc.
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I did not think you "parked" SUVs.
Either abandon them or bash everything out of the way.
That's what I see when I watch them park.
The best car based entertainment that is free. And it happens in every car park...
AQ7 is a monument to the driver's excess of money and lack of taste.
:
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AQ7 is a monument to the driver's excess of money and lack of taste
madf:
I hold no such views about anyone's spending habits on anything.
But I am interested to know where you draw the line on in your judgement of "excess of money and lack of taste" and how you arrive at that delineation.
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Excess of money?
Depreciation of 50% in one year says anyone with any money concerns would buy at one year ..
So excess of money buying new.
Shortage of taste?
Just look at one. As mentioned by someone else, ideal for a drug dealer .. or a pimp (although I have no friends in either category)
An X5 looks positively beautiful by comparison.
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Excess of money? Depreciation of 50% in one year Shortage of taste? ... ideal for a drug dealer .. or a pimp
:-) Well in that case I think anyone driving a Nissan Almera falls in to the same bracket. ;-)
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Oi! Lay off the Almera. Even in jest.
It's nowhere near bling enough for a truly self-respecting drug dealer or pimp.
Now when you look at some models of Mondeo I'd have thought the depreciation and the 19 different model names would fit the bill quite nicely.
Joking, of course.
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AQ7 is a monument to the driver's excess of money and lack of taste.
That's a bit sweeping. So far as I can see, they are regarded as the height of good taste by drug dealers.
They probably also appeal to those who don't give a fig about pollution or the risk to other road-users in driving such monsters around town, or to people with excess cash who like gangsta-rap bling and never need to park ... but they are definitely a good taste item for those who serve their community by retailing smack. (And like SUV drivers, smack dealers get such a terribly unfair mauling in the press).
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those who don't give a fig about pollution or the risk to other road-users
Nowheels:
Until you define the point [vehicle size, emissions, risk ] at which you find these things acceptable, your statement has no value.
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Until you define the point [vehicle size emissions risk ] at which you find these things acceptable your statement has no value.
Not necessary. All the cars currently in use are ridiculously heavy, far too polluting, and have far too short a shelf-life. However, the point about someone who chooses a bloated monster like a Discovery3 or a Q7 is that they are choosing the worst of breed rather than the best. A Subaru Outback diesel has half the C02 emissions of the Discovery 3 TDV6 ... hardly surprising when it's only 60% of the kerb weight.
It's the same as many other choices in life. The perfect option doesn't exist, but that's no justification for choosing the worst-of-breed rather than best of breed, or even something in the middle.
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Do any of these come to mind? "Having your cake and eating it", "Do as I say not as I do", "Politics of Envy", "Money, money money, it all boils down to money" etc.
All the cars currently in use are ridiculously heavy, far too polluting, and have far too short a shelf-life.
So there is no car that is acceptable. [period]
The perfect option doesn't exist, but that's no justification for choosing the worst-of-breed rather than best of breed, or even something in the middle.
But, now you want to tell people how to run their lives according to what you think/believe are extremes in your mind but clearly not in the minds of the manufacturer or the consumer who decides to buy that product.
I thank the supreme being that in the Nanny-UK-State we at still have some element of choice left in deciding how we decide to spend our hard-earned or state-handout money.
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I do NOT want to tell people how to run their lives.
And to suggest I - and otheres do - is disengenuous.
The OP asked about a Q7.
I and others posted civil and meaningful comments.
If the OP wants to spend their money, they can do what they like.
And as it still is a free country I am entitled to comment on it.
And if they do not want comments, don't ask the question.
:-)
and finally "clearly not in the minds of the manufacturer or the consumer who decides to buy that product."
I did not see Ford saying the EDSEL was a pile of rubbish. But it was .Or Fiat the Marea.
and so on.
Good natured rant over.
Edited by madf on 05/09/2008 at 15:25
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I do NOT want to tell people how to run their lives. ... Good natured rant over.
madf:
;-) no need to get mad and start ranting. ;-)
If you look at my quotes, it should be clear I was replying to Nowwheels, and not you.
And as it still is a free country I am entitled to comment on it.
Ditto. Glad we agree.
I did not see Ford saying the EDSEL was a pile of rubbish. But it was .Or Fiat the Marea.
Clearly then the manufacturer thought there was a market for that product, some people bought those cars, but maybe not the quantities that the manufacturer found viable. [ The Bugatti Veyron is sold at a fraction of the cost of making it, and it exists for a reason ].
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Many thanks for the helpful comments :P
My situation is as follows:
We have one car in our family
It has to transport 6 people when needed
It is rarely used around town due to the fact that as a family we walk and/or cycle to work and school
(I admit it goes to the supermarket once a week for groceries and to drop off the recycling)
It also needs to tow and as we now live well off the beaten track down an unadopted farm track 4wd is arguably essential
(For this reason we have mountain bikes not roadies)
Today I thought of you all when we abandonned a trip to take visitors to the station as our drive was washed out and our current car would have been swamped due to the heavy rain sweeping off the moors
I could buy an old LR and keep our current car
However a 2002 Defender produces more CO2 than a new Q7 and does not have a particulate filter, an earlier model would I assume be even more polluting
So thats why I am buying a 'lifestyle' car
Spare me the sanctimonious vitriol
Unless of course you also eat lentils, dont do the school run, dont commute, never drive a car one up and take public transport wherever possible
:)
Theo
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But I LIKE sanctimonious vitriol.
:-)
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>>However a 2002 Defender produces more CO2 than a new Q7 and does not have a particulate filter, an earlier model would I assume be even more polluting>>
Better to by a 5 year old RR V8 / X5 4.8i / ML500 etc and enjoy 300 bhp + V8 power because on the basis that your particular Q7 will not be built unless you place and order for it, the embedded carbon in a Q7 3.0 TDi will not offset the extra emmisions of a V8 that already exists.
An issue that gov policy does nothing to address.
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I drive a Q7 and its an absolutely fantastic car, yes its a bit of a gas guzzler but arent all 4x4's like that?
Its a dream car and the kids love it - even on the welsh roads there is no travel sickness!! Definitely recommended but ensure you keep up the tyre pressures or you'll be buying a new set every 7000 miles!!
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Spare me the sanctimonious vitriol
Most of us here will defend your right to buy the car you want.
We will also defend our right to say what we think about your choice - even if you don't like it.
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> Most of us here will defend your right to buy the car you want. We will also defend our right to say what we think about your choice - even if you don't like it.
Note that the original thread is over a year old and has been resurrected...
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Note that the original thread is over a year old and has been resurrected... >>
Yes, another one to add to the list of old threads resurrected by a first-timer, probably never to be seen again. I shan't be surprised if it was to turn out to be the same person who registers in different names to do this every few weeks!
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tried to drive the father in laws range rover into a multi story at Gatwick airport and it wouldnt fit! Car park wasnt even that old so you would have thought they would have built them to take these cars.
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tried to drive the father in laws range rover into a multi story at Gatwick airport and it wouldnt fit!
That would have made you popular if you hadn't noticed until too late!
Colleague of mine almost bought a Q7 and it was only a chance remark by the salesguy that made him check the car park where he lives and it wouldn't fit.
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How about a VW Touareg? A 5.0 V10 TDI would be incredible, and they're much better value used than all premium SUV's mentioned above.
Failing that, my vote would be for a Range Rover Vogue TDV8.
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I've driven my boss's Q7, 4.2TDI a few times, my goodness it goes like a train, power delivery and smooth ride amazing, so quiet, loved it.
Edited by Webmaster on 18/09/2009 at 01:54
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