My girlfriend is getting a new car on the 1st- group 8 insurance. Her Golf TDI is currently a group 12.
She phoned up to see how much it will cost, looking forward to it being a bit cheaper. Well no, it's an additional £64!!!!!!
For some reason a mini cooper D is a group 12 in their books, the adviser basically told her that the insurance group varies from insurer to insurer.
I never knew this??? As far as I was concerned a mini cooper D is a group 8, and should have been cheaper to insurance or at the very least the same price, not more!!!!!!
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If new car is "newer" than old car, then premium usually rises even if the new car is lower group than older cars. This is based on fact "newer" car has a higher market value.
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There's an 'Insurance Group Calculator' link at the top of the page.
Visit it and it says -
'Please note that insurance group ratings are purely advisory. They are used by many motor insurers as just one of the many input factors in calculating premiums. As such, they can provide a useful indicator of the likely relative cost of insuring a particular vehicle. Insurers are not required to follow the advisory group ratings and the full cost of insurance will depend entirely on the age and status of the policy holder.'
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Fair enough- I would have thought by buying a diesel mini logic would dictate that overall it should be cheaper to insurance than a 140bhp golf. Seems not!
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There's an 'Insurance Group Calculator' link at the top of the page
borasport:
I had a look at that just before you posted your reply. I see that the table there gives the MINI Cooper D as both group 8 and 16, as there are two columns headed Gp(20) and Gp(50). What do these column headings signify?
The Golf TDI is shown as from group 8 to 16 under Gp(20) column.
p.s. I find it amusing when some backroomer rush in to print "fuming" when a few minutes research on the internet would help them calm down a bit.
Edited by jbif on 28/08/2008 at 12:10
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Insurance is all about risk - the group rating is one expression of risk, but if the Flux underwriters have experienced/expect a higher number/value of claims for Mini Ds than for Golf TDI 140s, then they'll raise the premium on Minis so they can still make a profit. Other companies may have a different approach, hence the reason that confused.com has a business.
By comparison I got quotes ranging from £440 to £1900 for my daughters' car. Was I cross that M&S insurance wanted nearly £2k - no, but they clearly didn't want the business, and priced it accordingly.
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More likely is that they have found that ALL minis are driven by groups of people who are in a higher risk group.
is £68 pounds worth fuming about? Just over a tank of juice.
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Each insurer has their specialized area, they don't really want customer from other areas.
Example:
Esure wont' insure unless someone has 4 or more years of NCB
Admiral group welcomes people with zero NCB.
Adrian Flux is good for modified cars
Norwich Union values non-EU driving experience
and so on.
How a company arrives at a premium amount is entirely based on their own criteria.
That's why we have so many price variation and you need to spend time for searching for cheapest (and suitable) quote.
As for OP's case, £64 increase is not that much. When I sold my Gr 5 8-yr old car and bought another Gr 5 1-yr old car, Norwich Union hiked my premium £150 as new car was more costly! After that I moved house and my new post code gave me £175 refund on my premium!!!
Edited by movilogo on 28/08/2008 at 12:39
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Ok not fuming more cheesed off I guess. I must admit I feel we get ripped off every minute of everyday in this day and age and although £64 is just over a tank of petrol they just automatically assume you have it spare- which you may not.
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although £64 is just over a tank of petrol they just automatically assume you have it spare- which you may not.
You [or your girlfriend] is buying a new MINI Cooper?
What should I automatically assume?
£64 not at hand to spare as you have spent it all on the Cooper?
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Now How did I know someone had to say that!! Just because we are buying a new mini doesn't mean we have £64 to chuck away!! We do have other expenses & responsabilities...
Besides we partly bought the mini for the lower insurance group & general lower running costs- it's not like we bought an R8 is it???!
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Nothing stopping you from getting quotes from other insurers and cancelling mid term. You'll lose this current year's ncb and whatever cancellation charges are but if you feel that strongly then switch. Buying a new car to save on running costs isn't always so financially astute once you take into account the cost of finance/ loss of bank interest on the cash and increased deprecation compared to keeping the old car.
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Besides we partly bought the mini for the lower insurance group & general lower running costs
So you just assumed that the insurance was lower, and did not do your homework and check out some insurance quotes beforehand, and now want to rant at Adrian Flux for your own failings?
Also, it seems you are another one who has fallen in to the classic trap of "penny wise but pound foolish".
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R8-would that be a Renault R8?
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The group only relates to the car - power, cost to repair etc etc. The rest of the premium is down to customer risk profile.
If a lot of their claims are for accidents in low group cars the premium could well increase. Car may be less powerful and cheaper to fix, but if the chances of this happening are higher they need to recoup this cost.
Take the hit this year and shop around next.
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Just found out swift would cover us for £250 less. Is it still cheaper to lose the 9 months of the 3rd NCB or just stick at it til January.
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Currently Insurance companies split risks into twenty groups but are changing to a system with fifty groups to finetune the risk.Some vehicles' ratings will go up by a factor of 2.5(50/20)-others will change slightly but not all companies rate cars the same.Also taken into the ratings are cost/ease of repair and availability of parts as well as driver risk.
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£14,190 (plus extras) for a Cooper D. And you are complaining about £64...???
And you spent £14,190 in order to save money? I bet you bought it on finance too.
Bonkers.
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"And you spent £14,190 in order to save money?"
less the value of the Golf, of course.
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I feel some generational differences creeping in here :-)
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Oh for goodness sake. Why does it always end up in telling the OP how wrong they are with their decision making.
I did not buy it on finance, I actually p/xed the golf and paid an additional £3k cash if you must know- Paid by the interest I get in my savings account.
Yes I do have savings, but does this still mean I should be happy chucking money away??
Edited by sony on 28/08/2008 at 13:53
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Oh for goodness sake. Why does it always end up in telling the OP how wrong they are
It depends on the "attitude" and apparent mindset of the O.P.
You clearly indicate in your title that you are ranting against a Company and want to know who works for them. However, after examining the contents of your rant, it soon became apparent that it was all due to your own shortcomings rather than anything to do with Adrian Flux.
That then opens the filed for people to have a go at telling you how wrong your were, and then it transpires that the whole of your decision making process was suspect.
The one thing in your favour though is that the trait for being "penny wise and pound foolish" is very common in our glorious country. [But then, it is probably the only nation where the general population proudly boast that they are poor arithmetic! ]
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I apologise if I appeared a little agressive- things get to us at times! Anyhow- I have learnt to accept that I have to pay the extra premium- come January Swift insurance here I come!
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I apologise if I appeared a little agressive- things get to us at times!
Thanks for that. It goes a very long way to help calm things down.
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Anyone work for Adrian Flux??
If I said I did, what would you do to me?
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I think OP made a mistake by stating here he bought the Mini to save money! That's why people have started giving him advice "penny wise pound foolish" etc.
If OP said he'd bought the Mini just because he liked it, then that's end of it.
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For some reason a mini cooper D is a group 12 .......
Some insurance companies will automatically be prejudiced against any car called a Mini Cooper, regardless of what engine it's got, because of the boy-racer image that it acquired in the past. You don't buy a Mini Cooper to dawdle about in, you buy it to thrash the nuts off it.
I tried to point out to an insurance company that my XR3i only had a puny 105 ps 1.6 litre engine, but to no avail. The model had acquired a bad reputation and that was that ~ Group 13, and named drivers only. Yet my current 130 ps 2 litre Focus is only Group 8, and it would run rings round an XR3i.
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Yet my current 130 ps 2 litre Focus is only Group 8, and it would run rings round an XR3i.
I drive a group 18 car [old rating gp(20), but on new gp(50) rating it is group 42 ], and my insurance renewal was under £300. Checking quotes on comparision websites showed that I could have saved a few £s, but decided it was not worth the hassle in the end.
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Sony - I don't know that you actually have anything to apologise for, but I lift my hat to you for doing so - some of the responses have been more robust than helpful !
But just to satisfy my own curiosity, what made you go to Ardian Flux when you are insuring a bog-standard, unmodified (I assume) road car, when they are, according to their web site,..
' the UK's largest specialist motor insurance provider, covering everything from classic and vintage cars, right through to heavily modified sports cars'
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Well Sony, if I was in your shoes and moving from a group 12 to 8 car then I too would have assumed it would be cheaper, not necessarily this year and maybe still need to pay an admin charge to change, but certainly not higher cost or risk.
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Well Sony, if I was in your shoes and moving from a group 12 to 8 car then I too would have assumed
The assumption would be false, based on a presumption that the car was group 8.
Adrian Flux have told him that the MINI Cooper is not group 8 in their books!
Edited by jbif on 28/08/2008 at 15:42
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Well I wouldn't have asked my insurer, I would have went with the ins groups as shown in car magazines etc.
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.. that you actually have anything to apologise for
How about unjustifiably fuming at a named and shamed Adrian Flux, and perhaps metaphorically wanting to lynch anyone who works for them.
Edited by jbif on 28/08/2008 at 15:45
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Why didnt you ring up your insurer before you bought the car and ask for a quote, then decide to buy or not buy the car depending on that insurance quote. Simple!
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In response to borasport, we had the Golf chipped and the wheels were upgraded so we went with Adrian flux in January 08. They are no use to us now as obviously the Mini is standard- and will remain this way.
In response to why I didn't bother phoning the insurer before I bought the car, well, I just assumed a group 8 car would automatically be cheaper to insure.
I now know different!!
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It wouldn't be so bad if insurance companies gave pro-rata refunds, but say you paid 500 for insurance and after 9 months bought a new car, they can tell you to pay another £300 or cancel the policy and get a £63 refund and not get a no claims bonus for that year. It stinks!
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Sony posted to say he was surprised to be quoted a higher premium for his new lower group car.
What happens? He gets beasted for his choice of vehicle, means of payment, lack of internet savvy, lack of general financial savvy and goodness knows what else besides.
This post reads like a pack of wolves after a kill.
Give the lad a break.
He's even had the good grace to apologise, though what he has to apologise for, I can't think.
Ah, posting a simple motoring comment on a motoring forum - that must be what he's done wrong.
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He gets beasted for his choice of vehicle means of payment lack ofinternet savvy lack of general financial savvy and goodness knows what else besides. This post reads like a pack of wolves after a kill.
agreed. sadly that kind of response is becoming common here and, speaking for myself, is a major put off for the site.
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ifit
I agree entirely. The fellow complains that his insurance has gone up when he thought that it might have come down. OK, so he was perhaps naive in not getting quotes before he committed himself but to be labelled a 'pink fluffy dice' for being bothered about spending £64 more than he thought was reasonable seems to me absurd. Just because he can afford to buy a car for £14,000 doesn't mean that he should agree to pay whatever an insurance company quotes him (although he seems to have done just that he is entitled to rail against it).
Do his critics call into the filling station that is charging £1.28 per litre of unleaded when they can but it for £1.20 around the corner?
A little bit of nastiness seems to have infiltrated.
Edited by Webmaster on 29/08/2008 at 01:33
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By the way, who is Adrian Flux?
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Don't worry! I'll lighten the mood and cheer everyone up!
Today, at around about quarter to 8 this morning, I spilt superheated coffee in an area you don't want superheated coffee spilt on. (I had to walk around all day like that.)
I scratched my car when I was walking past with a bag and fell backwards onto it.
I just told Mum I don't want a cup of tea when really I do.
So you see, it's not all bad. :)
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Stupid man! Don't you realise coffee is hot!!!! ;-)
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Adam, did you keep the cup as eveidence, did it have a warning that the contents may warm the cockles of your heart a little if spilt? I can feel the beginnings of a claim...call now freefone 0800... 'dodgy briefs R us'..;)
And to make you feel better folks, i've just lashed out 250 nicker on some stainless side steps for the pick up so SWMBO doesn't have to keep letting all the chaps see if she's still in the commando's...;)
note to self...send that plastic card back to bank.
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So was it £64 extra to swap the policy over or was it a brand new policy? Unless you timed this precisely then I had assumed it was to change the car. So part of the policy covered the Golf and part would now cover the Mini. And wouldn't there be an admin fee to swap vehicles?
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Good point rtj70! The £63 could have been extra for anything from a few days to a almost a year, and therefore may even need extrapolating to give an idea of the difference for an annual premium for either car.
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Sony posted to say he was surprised to be quoted a higher premium for his new lower group car. ..... Ah, posting a simple motoring comment on a motoring forum - that must be what he's done wrong.
In reply to ifithelps:
No. He posted with an inflammatory title, thus inviting the ridicule that it deserved. If you can't stand the heat, don't start a fire.
And, I don't know if it helps you to know this, but this is what happens on discussion forums. ;-)
Edited by jbif on 28/08/2008 at 23:24
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In defence of Adrian Flux.
Both of my cars are insured through Adrian Flux and I've never had the slightest problem with them. In fact I'd thoroughly recommend them based on my experience.
At renewal time I always do a quick check of other insurers and I haven't found anyone that can beat them on like for like policies.
Last renewal for the XJ8, LV managed to quote £330 which is £20 less than AF but only with a higher excess. For the Chevy no-one else even comes close at £260. Both fully comp with legal cover.
Kevin...
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Why does everyone insist on berating anyone that has a different view from their own? This chap came on because he expected a group 8 car to be cheaper to insure than a group 12 car. It's not an unreasonable expectation.
To those that explained the intricacies of the insurance system, kudos. To the rest... get a life.
PS to the OP : Insurance comapnies use any excuse to extract cash from you. My wife recently renewed her insurance with a direct-telephone based insurance company and the quote docs came through with "annual mileage 20,000 per annum". She rang them up to tell them that it was actually only 10k (or less) per annum and was told that there would be a "change of circumstances" fee of £80 as a result. (despite the risks being significantly reduced!!!)
She reminded them that it was actually a renewal quote, at which time they graciousesly waivered the "change of circs fee", but the damage was done. She renewed elsewhere. She'd been a loyal customer for 7 years, but will never be a customer of this direct-telephone based ins co again!
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Am I the only one who's utterly surprised that having bought some shopping, the shopper gets home & then looks at the price - only to find it may have been purchased elsewhere, cheaper? I would be fuming, certainly - not at the shop though.
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I wouldn't use one of the main direct telephone line based companies, because you are not insured if you carry some everyday items such as barbeque lighter fluid, gas cylinders, white spirit or spare fuel according to the small print about "Carriage of Dangerous Goods as defined in ADR."
Edited by Hamsafar on 29/08/2008 at 01:08
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I wouldn't use one of the main direct telephone line based companies because you are not insured if you carry some everyday items such as barbeque lighter fluid gas cylinders white spirit or spare fuel according to the small print about "Carriage of Dangerous Goods as defined in ADR."
Do you have any links to policies which have this exclusion?
My telephone insurer policy doesn't include such stringent restrictions on what can be carried.
Edited by daveyjp on 29/08/2008 at 10:27
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I recall, a few years back, swapping my VW Jetta 1.3 four speed for a Jetta 1.6 five speed, the only difference being 300cc and central, rather than manual, locking.
To my amazement, the insurance group jumped from 7 to 10...:-(
When I swapped the Jetta 1.6 for a considerably younger Bora 1.6 with 100PS rather than 75PS in 2003, the insurance group and my premium proved to be lower in both cases.
There seemed little logic to any of this to me at the time and even now I only pay around £145 for fully comprehensive insurance.
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I used to insure my Caterham through Adrian Flux, sensible prices for a very non sensible car.
I wouldn't dream of considering them for anything other than the unusual
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There's so much more to an insurance premium than the vehicle group and they can have their own view only.
I hope Sony answers my question above. Was the £64 to swap cover and might partly be the admin fee. Heck there's an admin fee to cancel even!
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Rtj
We swap the Golf for the Mini on the 01/09. I phoned AF yesterday and was quoted £64 for the change, £29 of this is an admin fee. At least I only have 2 payments left to make!
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So minus the admin fee it's £35 for the remainder of the policy. It's worse than others moaned about! Start looking elsewhere at renewal time.
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Normally the acrid fumes come from the flux ;-)
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My experience from Direct Line was that if you tell them that you'll be swapping ins. cos at the next renewal, purely for charging an admin fee for changing vehicle/drivers etc, they will waive it.
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