01? 02?
Check the CO2.
If you get W plate or older the VED road tax stays the same. Why pay twice as much as you have to each year to the Treasury in road tax?
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I'd go for a pre year 2000 minter, a mainstream model thats catered for by the independants and whos new and secondhand parts are plentyfull and cheap. Some of the Korean manufacturers parts prices are 3 times the price of say a run of the mill Ford.
I do hundreds of miles as and when needed in my 10 year old golf estate, it passed the MOT last week after replacing a broken spring (I changed both fronts) and a wiper blade.
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Just bought a £2k car so feel qualified to speak...
Went for a 2001 Astra DTi. Absolute minter - and the road tax actually reduces next year and the year after, which was a very welcome surprise! Will do 60mpg all day, even on short runs and drives well.
I bought it for bread and butter journeys and long trips, so I can use my other cars for something special.
Never been a better time to buy a cheap car I say...
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"I was thinking of getting a "banger" but I always doubt their ability for long journeys.."
Why - the car doesn't know how far it is going? Cars stop for all sorts of reasons, but they don't have a memory. Just as likely to pack up afer 5 miles as 500.
Pleanty to be said for getting an Almera, a Primera (not ex-taxi) or a Mondeo for £999. My guess is that two £999 cars will last longer than one £1998 car.
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If I needed a cheap high miler to get me out of trouble, I'd buy a Mondeo.
I had just under 3 yrs and 45,000 miles extremely reliable service out of a £2500 Mondeo 1.8TD with 97k on the clock which I bought back in early 2005, and sold in April of this year for £700 with 142k on it (only sold because the Volvo came up at a good price and I fancied a change). As far as long journey ability is concerned, the Mondeo's new owner collected it from my house and drove it straight back to Warsaw, Poland without so much as checking the tyre pressures. It got him back without skipping a beat.
In the time I had it, it never let me down once, and the total maintenance bill outside of routine servicing and tyres came to less than £200. It needed a water pump (done at the same time as the scheduled timing belt change), front CV joint, thermostat, and a new expansion tank cap. Boring (in 1.8TD trim), but brilliant car - it just worked, and much more reliable than friends and relatives cars which were newer and from supposedly more reliable manufacturers.
My father's £3k 2.0 petrol Mondeo bought back in 1997 gave him 7 years and 70,000 miles of near perfect reliability (needed the useless Ford alarm disabling, a new vacuum pipe and a new exhaust at 6 yrs old - otherwise nothing outside of routine servicing and tyres). His neighbour's son has it now - 210k on the clock and still going. Still has the original clutch in it! It's looking shabby these days, but he's still using it for a 100 mile round trip commute a few days a week.
Cheers
DP
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OK I spent another 1K on my V70 in Jan 2007; I paid £3K for a 2000my V70 Classic, which had 172k on it when I got it... now has 198k on it 20months later. Servicing costs £130 at the main dealer, additional work has been an effort to fix the air con (I've given up now) and some silly little bits such as getting ABS or airbag lights reset after flat batteries or stuff hitting connections under the seats.
I reckon if I sold it now I'd get maybe £1800 on a good day, or more likely £1500. I don't mind, I think that something that has that mileage on it and still has some value is pretty good.
There are a couple of points where the price drops on a car; 100k, 150k and 175k. I got mine at just under the latter one so I probably dropped a bit much because of that.
Mine looks a bit of a shed at teh moment as it has loads of little dents in it from roof rack straps and kayaks/canoes, which is why I don't mind a higher mileage car.
Quick tip for those getting a higher mileage car... replace all hose clips, they rust!
Edited by Paddler Ed on 17/08/2008 at 11:02
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If I needed a cheap high miler to get me out of trouble I'd buy a Mondeo.
We were only offered £1k P/X for our Mondeo, so instead passed it on to some friends who needed a better car. Its still going strong 4 years later. A large bill will be the end, but no signs of that coming up any time soon.
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"I was thinking of getting a "banger" but I always doubt their ability for long journeys.." Why - the car doesn't know how far it is going? Cars stop for all sorts of reasons but they don't have a memory. Just as likely to pack up afer 5 miles as 500.
Presumably you're saying that the chance of breaking down in the next (say) mile is constant. But that still means that the further you go, the more likely you are to break down.
It's like tossing a coin - if you throw 10 heads (tail = breakdown), the chance that the next is another head is still 0.5. But the chances of not throwing a tail in the next 10 throws is very low, and the more times you throw, the more likely you'll get a tail in one of them.
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Clearly if you don't drive the car at all, then it'll never break down, and if you drive 100k then your chances of a breakdown are higher than if you drive 1k.
The OP was worried about the chances of completing a long journey, suggesting that a banger won't make it to the end - but my experience of many years of bangernomics is that I've never been left at the roadside 300 miles from home. I've once been dumped 0.5 miles from home, on a journey that should have been 30 miles.
It's not often that when running a banger that you are losing significant amounts of reliability, and you can maximise your chances by careful buying of the right model. What you are losing in buying a banger are safety features, some comfort, perhaps, image and total lifespan, but that can be managed to an extent.
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I'd go for a pre year 2000 minter a mainstream model thats catered for by the independants and whos new and secondhand parts are plentyfull and cheap. Some of the Korean manufacturers parts prices are 3 times the price of say a run of the mill Ford.
But then again some German and Japanese parts prices are also three times the price of a run of the mill Ford -- and it must be said that pre-Focus, the older Fords (pushrod-engined Fiestas, Escorts etc) could be horrible old nails as they got older.
The big advantage of Korean cars is the age of the design in many cases (this isn't really true anymore, but was five or ten years ago). This means that they tend to be easier to fix -- even though the parts on an Accent say may be dearer than on an Astra, often stuff like clutches, cambelts and so on are actually cheaper to replace on the Hyundai because of the time it takes to do the jobs.
Generally speaking (and as someone who owned a Vauxhall and a Hyundai at the same time, and so had similar service parts need replacing at similar times), once you factor labour costs into the mix the Hyundai was rarely more than 20% more expensive than the Vauxhall -- labour costs generally outweigh the cost of a £40 brake disc over a £30 one.
When a Korean car is also 3 or 4 years newer than the Vauxhall or Ford (and no less likely to last the pre-requisite 13 years or so), they do make sense.
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Jase1, OP says vectra mondie in size, no pushrod engines in these, the pre 2000 comment was to avoid CANBUS complexities, when paying this kind of money I'd go for a slightly older minter with full history over the newest plate for the money.
A timing belt for a sedona is £85, nearly 10 times that of a ford
For the price of a S coupe front wheel bearing I could buy all four for my mk3 golf and have change for a nice bottle of brandy to console myself as I dress my wounds.
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> A timing belt for a sedona is £85, nearly 10 times that of a ford
That's a bit selective isn't it?
OK then, a clutch replacement on a Hyundai Lantra (pre-2000, Mondeo size) costs about £200 -- £60 for the clutch plus four hours' labour (conservative estimate). Pretty much in line with any other car out there.
How much does it cost on the Mondeo again?
Or, timing belt on same car. £20 from motor factors.
How much on a Vectra (factoring in the replacement of the GF50 tensioners)?
And how much on a newer VAG car??
Remind me again how much a car stereo adaptor costs on a Golf? £1.47 for a surround on the Accent I had....
Edited by jase1 on 17/08/2008 at 14:54
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Son's 1993 Ford fiesta 1.1 was £900, and lasted 4 years .
Burned oil and had new disks and pads, new clutch, rocker cover gasket and lots of oil and tyres.
Mileage when bought 50k When scrapped 96k,
£2k is about £1k too much...
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Jase1, I also hang around other forums where traders lurk, the cheaper end of the market so to speak, as in this thread, non recommend Korean cars due to the cost of the parts.
A Mondeo clutch is probably the best argument against the Mondeo, however if its recently had one..........
I'm boring myself now so I'll leave this one
;o)
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Don't spend £2,000. Spend £1,000 or less. Go to the main auctions such as Blackbush on weekdays if you can manage it. There will be a 'knocking them out' session of cheapies.
Buy exclusively on condition and mileage. There are people who will tell you a high miler having done 'motorway miles' is no problem. Do not believe them. The WHOLE care does the miles not just the engine and in a modern car the engine is usually the easiest thing to replace.
Look for unloved Q cars. For example the SEAT Toledo is a MK II Golf with a different body.
After a few visits you will see it and it is a car loved by its previous owner low mileage always main dealer serviced usually garaged and its owner now probably dead (sorry to be morbid) and the relatives are selling it off at no reserve.
Expect three years from the car. One year since being fully serviced. One year pushed through the MOT at minimum cost, scrapped before the next MOT.
Bangernomics at its finest.
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We have a pair of Volvo 240s in our household. The 1993 model has just passed 400,000 miles (I bought it 10 years ago when it had only done 180,000). I use this as my main car, doing about 20,000 pa.
The 1989 has only done 130,000, and cost £100 2 years ago.
£2000 is a ridiculous amount of money to waste on a car. Buy something cheap, and save the money for repairs or to buy another one.
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"£2000 is a ridiculous amount of money to waste on a car. Buy something cheap, and save the money for repairs or to buy another one. "
Interesting thought, I used to think the same and have motored extremely cheaply up til now. But throw kids into the equation and there's a nagging thought that I am risking their safety. It'a probably false thinking but difficult to shift.
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Interesting thought I used to think the same and have motored extremely cheaply up til now. But throw kids into the equation and there's a nagging thought that I am risking their safety. It'a probably false thinking but difficult to shift.
Persoanlly I'd much rather have a crash in a 10 year old Omega than a newer 'supermini' or whatever.
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"Persoanlly I'd much rather have a crash in a 10 year old Omega than a newer 'supermini' or whatever"
Scientifically proven that nwer small cars are much safer than bigger older cars.
See Top Gear Vrash Volve versus small car (Smart?)
And anyone who believes a 10 year old car does not have a rust weakened structure is a hopeless optnist... ( if you look at cars cut in 2 , the rusts starts in the seams - where the welds are. And GM build quality is notoriously poor)
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"Persoanlly I'd much rather have a crash in a 10 year old Omega than a newer 'supermini' or whatever" Scientifically proven that nwer small cars are much safer than bigger older cars. See Top Gear Vrash Volve versus small car (Smart?)
Ah but did you see the AE test of a large (four-star) 4x4 vs the new Fiat 500?
While I agree that older cars' structure inevitably weakens, I'd still far rather be in a larger car with a good safety rating than a little poxy one. It could have 20 NCAP stars for all I care, I still wouldn't feel safe in one.
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>crash, children
You can pay 20k for a brand new car, or 1k for a 5-year-old version of exactly the same model. Which is safer.... errr...
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Jase1 I also hang around other forums where traders lurk the cheaper end of the market so to speak as in this thread non recommend Korean cars due to the cost of the parts.
Dealers may not like them because, for them, the cost of labour is tiny, so part cost becomes an issue. We pay between £35 and £50 an hour for labour -- they pay their staff mechanics £10 an hour and get them to do repairs on forecourt cars on their down-time.
The real point I was making was that part cost should never be the only reason you buy any car. Nine times out of ten the part cost is dwarfed by the labour cost, and this is true whether you buy a Ford or a Proton.
Yes, if you are fixing the car yourself it is an issue -- but when was the last time most people bothered to repair anything more than a routine service part (which costs more or less the same for almost any car) themselves?
Half the age + half the mileage + still cheaper than Golf = worth the risk of having to pay an extra £50 here and there.
Honda, Toyota, VW and even Renault parts are generally significantly inflated against Vauxhall and Ford -- is this a reason to avoid these makes as well?
Edited by jase1 on 17/08/2008 at 18:23
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The traders I speak of spanner, paint, polish and sell themselves as one man bands, they rarelly touch non mainstream stuff.
My recommendation was old school pre 2000 before manufacturers started to build in proffit from spares, eg mk3 golf rear wheel bearing £10, MK4 Golf rear wheel bearing complete with hub (not available separatelly) £85
There's not much point running bangers if you have to go tripping to the maindealers should someone split your bumper on a supermarket carpark.
I spanner my cars where ever possible, I enjoy it
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Well OK, if you are a self-fixer then what you say makes sense.
For the rest of us however it's more a case of choosing something that will go from MOT to MOT without needing any significant amount of fettling in the first place.
I'd put my money on a 4-year-old, 30,000-mile Accent with a year's manufacturer's warranty rather than a ten-year-old, 100,000-mile Golf any day of the week.
Fit it yourself -- you're right, buy the 12-year-old Escort for £300.
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'99 Astra 1.8iCDX estate, bought 2005 at 83k miles, 2.4k (so a bit over budget).
Currently at 113k, everything works, hardly any niggles over 3 years.
I would expect another 30k out of it easily. I had the cambelt done at 110k ( earlier than scheduled) to increase the chances of it lasting the next few years.
Annual service and a supplementary 6 month oil+filter change, as recommended on here, have I am sure contributed to the good reliabilty of the engine. Oh, and when the oil is properly warmed through it gets driven fairly unsympathetically!
I would recommend the previous-shape Astra - not the most thrilling choice but a reliable workhorse. Good luck with your search!
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