I read the thread about joggers with intrest.
Drivers are absolutly right to be incensed when someone steps out infrount of them without looking and thus coursing danger. Whatever the legal words say motorists should be accepted as having the right of way on roads. Exept where there are Pedestrain crossings.
In the Joggers thread there were stories about people running across predestrain crossings without looking. - How dare they, they are causing a real danger, creating car crashes!
I am right in assuming pedestrain crossings give the right of way to pedestrains? It is like a give way sign to motorists. No motorist would get away with assuming a give way sign did not apply to them on the road, so why is it diffrent for pedestrain crossings? To pass a give way sign on the road motorists need to prove to themselfs nothing is comming that has right of way. The oposite seems to be true for pedestrain crossings - when you see someone at a pedestrain crossing you stop - if you don't, proceed. The burden has thus shifted
In regards of people running out onto predestrain crossings we have to ask ourselfs who is creating the bigger danger - the 2 tonne peice of metal going at 30MPH+ tailgating other 2 tonne peices of metal going at 30MPH+, or the 70KG body going at less than 15mph.
May I suggest that the next time you drive up to a pedestrain crossing, you treat it as a road for pedestrains, in that you slow down to look if there is someone who could have right of way - and that does include runners - may want to use the road. We all do that when getting to a normal give way sign on the road, why not at pedestrain crossings?
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Yes mk124, pedestrians have right of way on zebra crossings. But the mere existence of a crossing doesn't suspend the laws of physics or the need for commonsense to be displayed by all road users.
If a zebra is in a 30mph zone it is possible that cars will approach it at 30mph. For any pedestrian to run onto a crossing without checking that it is safe to do so is not common sense, and may result in a challenge to the laws of physics.
The other common abuse of zebras is the tendency of some people to stand around suggestively near them when they don't mean to cross. Very annoying to have to slow down for nothing.
As for light-controlled crossings, I have seen ostensibly sane adults pressing the pedestrian override button as they pass but with no intention of crossing the road, toerag behaviour that sends me into a towering rage, even though I suspect the buttons have little or no effect and are just there to amuse monkeys.
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I think that pedestrians have right of way almost anywhere, don't they? However, they certainly should know how to use ZCs! As for people loitering near ZCs, or pressing the button on Pelicans, etc, well - toe, wishbone. Sometimes when the button is pressed, a crossing possibility happens before the red light comes on. If this happens to me, I find it is embarrassing.
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I must admit, as someone once involved in a serious car accident due to the other party not respecting my absolute right of way, I now use all possible road sense when negotiating junctions whether on foot, on a bicycle or in a car. There are far too many drivers out there who drive round in their own little world oblivious to what is happening around them to assume that my right of way guarantees my safety.
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You won't be surprised to hear I failed my driving test at the first attempt, because as I turned slowly into a side road a pedestrian already had a foot on the roadway and I went on past her, whilst she happily waited and waved me by.
Nope. I was informed afterwards that pedestrians always have right of way so that was a fail.
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pedestrians always have right of way so that was a fail.
Yes, if you drive in a normal, decently restrained way suitable for busy urban areas you can easily fail the driving test. I failed one for not changing down to second gear and creeping past side turnings in which no traffic was visible.
The driving test is an exaggerated charade of careful driving. If you can't perform properly you are deemed not to possess the necessary restraint and self-discipline for minimal safety on the road. When young I was irritated by this going-through-the-motions-in-obvious-fashion aspect, but these days it doesn't seem so annoying somehow.
Edited by Lud on 08/08/2008 at 15:53
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....and there was I expecting a thread about foot crossings across railways !
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tinyurl.com/6jbybk
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Thanks RJ. Perhaps everyone should take an urban walking test based on those excellent rules, for a licence to be issued when they are say ten years old. Before that time or without a licence they should be regarded as responsible for any accident in which they are involved, in the absence of convincing testimony to the contrary?
Mad, suicidal, stupid, immature, drunk or senile pedestrians would then stop making the lives of urban drivers more difficult than they need to be.
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>The driving test is an exaggerated charade of careful driving. If you can't perform properly you are deemed not to possess the necessary restraint and self-discipline for minimal safety on the road. When young I was irritated by this going-through-the-motions-in-obvious-fashion aspect, but these days it doesn't seem so annoying somehow.
Exactly as it should be, Lud. Self-control is the hardest part of operating a motor vehicle.
On a note related to the jogger-on-roundabout thread, I came around a roundabout yesterday morning only to see a man in running gear, but walking in the middle of the road. I mean walking the roundabout as a vehicle would travel it. He seemed to have stopped running to take a phone call because he had his mobile pressed to his head and was having quite an animated conversation, utterly oblivious to my car approaching.
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Here are a few extra rules for pedestrians not contained in the above and gleaned from my experience of walking to work over the past 15 years - about 2 1/2 miles each way to Norwich city centre
Even if traffic light are red and green man is showing expect a car to jump the lights. After 10.00 p.m this is almost the norm.
Expect to walk in the road to avoid cars parked on the pavement.
Expect cyclists to swoop at you from all directions. They are allowed to go anywhere and no regulations apply to them
Even though street is designated as pedestrian zone expect cars to take a short cut through it when other streets are blocked. Expect plenty of verbal if this pointed to to driver. Do not expect police to be interested.
Expect to encounter cars driving on the pavement. (Yesterday, when road was partly obstructed by a vehicle unloading and driver not prepared to wait)
When walking down an unlit road at night on right hand side of road and carrying a small torch expect vehicles to drive at you. Again expect plenty of verbal if you protest.
If there are large puddles on the road expect some drivers to deliberately drive though them as a from of amusement.
In winter even though the roads are gritted do not expect similar treatment for the pavement. You are only a pedestrian.
Expect to be mugged (twice in 5 years)
Edited by CGNorwich on 08/08/2008 at 20:41
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Whatever happened to Tufty the Squirrel and the green cross code?
I also seem to remember a very bizarre character called the Green Cross Code Man. Ah yes, just found him here:
www.internationalhero.co.uk/g/grenxcod.htm
Played by the guy who played Darth Vader no less. That's a useful fact to take to the pub.
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I think Mr David went to my school.
Anyway, never mind Tufty, if you were picking one animal - anything you like from the pantheon of a million species - to advocate road safety issues what do you think it might be?
www.westberks.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=7591
Edited by Dipstick on 08/08/2008 at 23:10
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Definitely the hedgehog! Or, if you have ever driven in Texas, the obvious choice would be the armadillo. They evolved to be run over by cowboys in pickups.
I used to do a fairly regular drive down the A36 from Hampshire to Bath. It was like death alley for pheasants.
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