"Kvam, Googlemaps tells me, is a little east of Bergen?"
Cheers Mapmaker. Its the other Kvam though, North of Vinstra (and Lillehammer) Sorry about not being more precise
tinyurl.com/6c865y
If you zoom out from the above location, its a few miles further North
Edited by oilrag on 07/08/2008 at 10:24
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The armoured car motored towards Kvam...
"The Germans attacked in the early morning of this day, forcing their way through along the main road with tanks and armoured cars,"
tinyurl.com/5ogsk9
Edited by oilrag on 07/08/2008 at 10:33
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"Kvam Googlemaps tells me is a little east of Bergen?" Cheers Mapmaker. Its the other Kvam though North of Vinstra (and Lillehammer) Sorry about not being more precise
Oops, I worked that one out myself, later and forgot to edit. Still doesn't mean I suggest a different approach. I think approaching Norway by sea is essential to appreciate the place. (Quite how anybody thought they could conquer it, I cannot imagine, and what the British troops must have thought when they first saw it is mind boggling.
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Oilrag, here is a brief account of my experiences driving in Norway, which hopefully will assist you in making a good choice of how and when to go.
It is worth noting that there are eight places in Norway called ?Kvam? and whilst you specify it is the one north of Lillehammer (where the 1994 Winter Olympics were held), it is obviously vital to make sure that you head for the right one!
1) Fuel is somewhat dearer than in the UK, with diesel being more expensive than petrol. This increase in cost is mostly due to the worsening exchange rate which until the ?Credit Crunch? was about NOK 12 to the £ and is now around NOK 10 (NOK = Norwegian Knoner).
2) There is no problem with fuel quality or availability anywhere in Norway, but do not let your tank run low, as distances between filling stations can be large by UK standards. Opening times vary, but if you do aim to fill up before 17:00, there should not be a problem.
3) Often, filling stations are unmanned and you will need a Chip and PIN Credit Card to pay at the pump. We used a Nationwide card (which is Visa) because they do not impose a foreign exchange loading to the transactions. Usually unmanned filling stations are cheaper than manned versions. All filling stations that I have seen have been self-service. The most common brand is Statoil, but the major UK brands are there as well.
4) Headlights, properly masked must be on dip at all times you are moving: no exceptions. There are many tunnels in Norway and a good percentage of them are unlit, narrow and quite twisty. The longest road tunnel in the world, the 24.5 km Laerdals is lit (and ventilated) with three strangely illuminated rest areas.
5) There are many toll roads, bridges, tunnels and ferries. Unfortunately, there seems neither rhyme nor reason as to when a toll is levied. You must carry plenty of change and be prepared to spend freely. For example, the Laerdals tunnel is free, but to drive into Stavanger city centre costs a car NOK 13. Some payment stations use people to gather the money, others machines.
6) Tunnels can be difficult if you enter them from a bright sunny day and they are unlit, unfortunately there seems no logic as to when a tunnel is lit or not.
7) Roads are usually one lane in each direction, even the E6 which is the main south to north route (and goes through Lillehammer to Kvam). The road surface varies from OK to rough.
8) The Norwegian idea of road repairs is to rip up five or six miles of road surface all in one go and relay it all in one go. Occasionally they might have someone directing traffic, especially if the newly laid surface is still a bit soft, but do not count on it. Often in the dry, you will find yourself driving through clouds of dust and in the wet slithering about all over a sloppy slidy surface.
9) The steepest passes I have driven over have been 1:3 and the most number of hairpin bends, 29 on the descent into Lysbotn from the top of the pass. All these roads have been narrow, if you know and like the English Lake District, you will be happy here.
10) English is widely spoken by just about everyone under the age of 60. A very useful word in Norwegian is, ?Takk? which means either, ?thanks?, ?please?, or ?excuse me? according to circumstances.
11) Norwegian roundabouts are not good and Norwegians do not seem very good at using them. Often I have waited, when if the person coming the other way had signalled, I could have moved off. This behaviour is widespread and much more prevalent than in the UK.
12) Norwegians are very proud of their countries performance during WWII and a visitor to a war grave will gain some extra Brownie Points. Norwegians themselves are polite and courteous and do not seen to express any problem with speaking English to visitors.
13) The weather in the months between May and August is similar to that of northern Scotland, i.e. a bit cooler than southern England, but not very much so. Winter is different with temperatures below -50 centigrade being not uncommon.
14) Traffic, away from the main cities of Oslo and Bergen is light and even on the E6 is not heavy. Get off the E6 and you will enjoy motoring as it once was in days of yore, with the road to yourself for mile upon mile.
15) The scenery is usually beautiful and the wildlife hazardous. You need to keep a vigilant lookout north of the Arctic Circle for Reindeer, which behave like sheep, except that they are, bigger, better camouflaged and have antlers. South of the Arctic, the big problem is Elk. Elk run out of the woods and across the road without warning, they are big and heavy (up to 500 kg) and difficult to spot until they are in front of you. There are warning signs at the common crossing points, but to be honest it is rather like crying ?wolf?, as after the first 30 or 40 signs, the concentration levels start to drop.
16) The Norwegian tourist board recommends not doing more than 150 miles a day, as this will give you enough time to enjoy the scenery and look at points of interest along the way.
17) Norway is very internet aware and you must be able to make bookings on line for car-hire and accommodation.
18) I have toured Norway by motorcaravan and never used hotels, but I believe that they are expensive. A cheap alternative is to use ?Hytters? (cabins) which are offered by many campsites. Hytters offer basic accommodation which are heated, often have cooking facilities and sleep 4 ? 8 people. A copy of the Norwegian Camping booklet from www.camping.no will give more details of location, price etc.
19) For cash, I have used ATM?s with a Nationwide Flex Account card (no loading).
20) Credit Cards are widely accepted.
21) Public call boxes are common and use phone cards or credit cards.
22) Overall, excepting accommodation, eating out and alcohol, I recon that Norway is between 10 ? 15% dearer than the UK.
23) Alcohol is expensive; a bottle of Laphroig whiskey costs the equivalent of nearly £50, a beer in a restaurant about £4 per 500 ml.
I am going to stop now, as I am contributing to a motoring forum, not writing a travel guide. If anyone has any specific questions, just ask.
Michael
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Whoops forgot something ............
I use the Statoil road maps, get them from any Statoil garage. They are in a spiral binder and cover Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark to a scale of 1:300,000 south of the Arctic and 1:400,000 north of it.
Also, there is a very good free map included with the Norway Camping Guide which shows rest places with toilets etc.
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Quite a surprise to read this thread: my father was captured in a narrow valley, probably Gudbransdal, at Kvam I think. Was on an island, surrounded/outflanked. Rest of regiment (KOYLI) had left. PoW for 5 years as a result. Wouldn't say much about it, and is now deceased.
Edited by nortones2 on 07/08/2008 at 12:41
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"Take your own car. Cross the North Sea from Newcastle, and cruise into Bergen "
Except after 1st Septemember 2008 DFDS Seaways stop sailing from North Shields to Norway. Newcastle council trying to get another operator interested but DFDS took over from Fjordline.
We meant to go to Norway for ages so knowing it was ending went a couple of weeks back but without the car.
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You might enjoy "The Moon is Down" by John Steinbeck
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Very rarely does a post here make the gooseflesh rise. Go its a pilgrimage - no need to take flowers, a simple, little wooden cross and poppy will do. Gloriously understated.
Futility
Move him into the sun--
Gently its touch awoke him once,
At home, whispering of fields unsown.
Always it awoke him, even in France,
Until this morning and this snow.
If anything might rouse him now
The kind old sun will know.
Think how it wakes the seeds--
Woke, once, the clays of a cold star.
Are limbs so dear-achieved, are sides
Full-nerved,--still warm,--too hard to stir?
Was it for this the clay grew tall?
--O what made fatuous sunbeams toil
To break earth's sleep at all?
-- Wilfred Owen
Edited by Pugugly on 07/08/2008 at 18:54
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But unlikely via Newcastle/North Tyneside if taking a car. Only a few weeks left of the ferry/cruise service. For all those who might like doing it before it vanishes we enjoyed it.
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To Everyone.
Thank you so much for taking the effort to contribute to this thread. For the long detailed write up Michael which is so useful. Pugugly for the thoughts and poetry..
Nortontones, have you seen this, from one of my links above on the battle
tinyurl.com/5c6tsm
Shows KOYLI position, the island at the bottom and the bend in the road the armoured car motored around (motoring context!) at that point. I believe it first came under fire from the island and then temporarily retreated. Looks like my uncle was with your father, or nearby.
Michael, re emails and photos, here is a temporary email address I have created as it would be great to see them. I will leave it in existence for a week or so, but won`t be able to reply from it.
kvamtrip@blueyonder.co.uk
Regards
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Go Oilrag.
Its something that will gnaw at you till you do.
Well done in finding the truth, and i agree fully about the discretion with your father, i was similarly discreet with my own mother over the circumstances of the death of one of my sons too, you were quite right, the older folk don't need always to know every gritty detail.
Now you know where your uncle rests, you will not be content until you have made this journey.
All the best.
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Very sorry to learn of your loss GB.
A Belgian erstwhile colleague once invited me and some others to spend a long weekend with him and his family. He took us to some of the more sobering sites. At first I found it uncannily morbid. After a while though, I began to understand how important it is to fully appreciate why we need to remember. We need to remember that we must never let anything like this happen again.
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Oilrag. Yes, I've seen it thanks. Moving description of the action by Spospe , and the rotten conditions. Ties in a bit with Dads outline, terse though it was. Note no medals were issued for the campaign SFAIK. Despite bravery by many in fighting against the odds. No air cover, few heavy MGs. Using PIATs (I think) at close range against tanks. 25 pounders left behind on the docks in Scotland didn't help. A few of those would have decimated the road forces, if not the flanking Alpine ski-troops. We visited the area a few years back, but didn't get down as far as Kvam. It takes longer to travel over there with the narrow, single carriageway roads. Mean to go back sometime. I have seen a German account of the fighting - will see if it is still on the net. Regards.
Edited by nortones2 on 07/08/2008 at 21:59
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Remember also the (mysterious) sinking of the HMS Glorious and her escorts. 1500 men lost for what is still a state secret....wonder why that is ?
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Sorry to hear of your Son GB...
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Michael,
Thanks for the email and photo`s of Norway.
It`s a trip to do at some point, but this September its the First World War battlefields around Albert and Ypres and some earlier history at Agincourt.
Incidentally, we went up to Tornio in Finland to stay with friends a few years ago. We took his snowmobile out on the Baltic and among other things did a a trip on the Sampo, from Kemi.
tinyurl.com/6o6ga8
Regarding driving, I have never experienced such mastery and precision as our Finnish friend displayed on the road. He was on studded tyres and in ice/snow I never felt even a momentary loss of grip in his driving, over a week. It took supreme skill to do that in the conditions and it made a point far better than sliding the car about.
This was an understated display of excellence.
Later we were sitting in a town street cafe, by the window and he had left us there while he went down the road in the car to do something else.
On his return he spun the car in its length, right outside the cafe, in a handbrake turn, in the narrow ice packed city street and it lined up an inch from the kerb, both front and back wheels equidistant , now facing in the other direction.
Our eyes met very briefly, as he walked into the Cafe. Nothing said. But I had never seen anything like it.
Edited by oilrag on 08/08/2008 at 09:14
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They say that at Finnish temperatures, ice is as grippy as concrete.
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Several years ago I borrowed FILs Discovery and, together with 4 friends, we toured Norway for a fortnight. We sailed from Newcastle to Bergen, then headed north for a week before turning round and heading back.
I remember wonderful fjord crossings, stunning scenery and friendly people.
As an aside....we filled several suitcases with good quality bottles of wine, and using the barter system, exchanged them for free B & B along the way. The 'bush telegraph' system worked and we rarely paid for accommodation! We even declared the wine when we passed thru customs in Bergen...we must have looked like 5 wine connoisseurs. One of my better cunning plans. Several years on I no longer have the nerve to approach a guest house owner and barter in that fashion.
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For those planning a trip to Norway, wine is curiously cheap in Norway, providing you drink the really good stuff, because whilst the tax on achohol is fierce it's a fixed sum per bottle so the more expensive the wine the more you are paying for the wine and not the tax.
If you really want to barter with a Norwegian, malt whisky is the currency that goes furthest.
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My parents have just come back from a trip to North Cape with their caravan, Yorkshire to North Cape and back in two weeks.
Reports that the roads are quiet but rough and wear the tyres more than ours so make sure you have plenty of tread before you go.
Some roads are very narrow and luckily (mother's words) they managed to avoid meeting lorries on the narrowest parts.
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Yorkshire to the North Cape and back in two weeks sounds like an American on a two week round the world cruise: been there, seen nowt!
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