Test drove a 2004 (54) Legacy 3.0 Spec B Tourer this morning. Advertised at £11k by a main dealer. Seemed like a sound car, except for 1 x nearly bald tyre and scuffs on all the alloys - which was irritating, as car had been described as 'mint' when I rang to arrange the test drive. Front bumper panel gap a bit big on one side if I'm being picky. Dealer offers me £300 fo my 99T Mazda 323 (85k miles), which has FSH and one previous owner but tatty bodywork, including badly rusted rear arch.
Dealer said he would throw in a service, MOT, 12 month Subaru warranty, and replace the tyre. Quoted me £10,250 (cost to change). No tax on the car.
Is this a good deal? I think these cars are only going to get cheaper over the next 3-6 months.
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Pete
I am no expert on the Spec B, but I have an Impreza (now one year old) and my friend and neighbour has had a Legacy Outback and a series of Impreza (which is what persuaded me to get mine).
Couple of points I can think of:
1. Subaru tyres are all supposed to be exactly the same diameter (says so in the handbook and technical manual). If they are not then it upsets the AWD system. You are supposed to 'rotate' the tyres at the service to equalise wear. So one tyre should not be worse than the rest and you should replace them as a set.
2. Subaru bodywork and assembly is very good, so odd panel gaps are suspicious.
These cars a monumentally thirsty so I would imagine are extremely unpopular at the moment.
18 months ago I was toying with the idea of buying a nearly-new Legacy and visited a few dealers. I noticed that, at that time, the used Legacies (of all flavours) simply don't seem to 'shift'. The same cars were sitting on the dealer frontage six months later, like permanent monuments to Japanese engineering excellence. It was this that persuaded me to get an Impreza, I didn't fancy being stuck with a Legacy for ever more, or accepting a ridiculously low trade-in. I think the Legacy is absolutely great, but probably almost unsaleable in the current climate when even a 2 litre Mondeo is considered a 'gas guzzler'.
My advice would be to pass on this one and wait till early next year when the cold weather is with us, people are paying for Christmas and have received their massive winter gas bills. The dealerships will be deserted and they'll be gagging for a customer to take a 3.0 Legacy off their hands!
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Hi 'qxman' - thanks for the suggestions. Really helpful to get an external perspective. The one-off tyre was due to a puncture apparently, so I can see why the owner didn't want to replace all 4 at the time. It's the alloy scuffs that bothered me the most - though I suppose it's what you expect on a 4 year old car. Apparently they are chrome-effect finish and can't be refurbed (according to another dealer).
I'm in no rush to get rid of my current car, and your points about winter/Xmas make a lot of sense. Thanks again.
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If all the alloys are scuffed it would put me off, because, it has either had an owner who couldn't care less, and/or been a "pool" car of some sort.
There are too many cheap ones about at the moment too jump-in at the first go.
I know the 3.0l ones are said to be VERY thirsty, but so are the 2.0 ones as well, but I'm currently getting 38 MPG out of mine (55 reg. 2.0R estate) at the moment and that's not bad in my book.
Edited by nick62 on 21/07/2008 at 18:27
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I know the 3.0l ones are said to be VERY thirsty but so are the 2.0 ones as well but I'm currently getting 38 MPG out of mine (55 reg. 2.0R estate) at the moment and that's not bad in my book.
Nick
When I was looking for one I was told by the dealers that the "old" SOHC 2.0 engine (2.0i designation) in the Legacy was pretty heavy on fuel whereas the 'new' DOHC, with variable valve timing and other gubbins, engine introduced in 2005 (2.0R designation) was much better both in terms of power and economy.
I think I have the same DOHC engine as your Legacy in my 2007 Impreza and to be honest economy is not really much of an issue (well, no more than with any other 2 litre car). 36mpg on rural and suburban driving is not a problem and I could probably push toward 40mpg if I drove a little more gently.
My neighbour had a 3.0 Outback and that was seriously thirsty, less than 20mpg in town. He followed it with an Impreza turbo and thought that was very economical in comparison!
Given the current economic climate, and what might be to come, I can't see many people choosing a 3.0 Subaru as a 'daily' car, so if anyone wants one there are surely bargains ahead? I would love one, and could probably afford it to be honest, but couldn't really justify it (to myself or wife) because 90% of my driving is just trundling about in traffic, commuting or taking the kids around, shopping etc. A 3.0 in my hands would seldom stretch its legs.
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Yes mine is the quad cam engine.
In town is a different story at about 20MPG at best, but I very rarely do short journeys and most are at least 40 miles and mainly on motorways/open roads.
They have changed the engine again since (in the 2008 model), by lowering the peak power and tuning more for torque. I think my engine is 163BHP (I don't know the torque figure), but the latest spec. is "only" 150BHP but with more torque, which should be even better.
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The one-off tyre was due to a puncture apparently so I can see why the owner didn't want to replace all 4 at the time.
Hmm, can't see how a puncture would result in one tyre more worn than the others (if rotated properly). Am I missing something?
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Plenty out there so keep looking. The odd alloy scuff wouldn't worry me, mine has a couple and I care a lot about my cars, they happen. The one bald tyre would worry me. Puncture or not, a careful owner wouldn't do this. As has been mentioned, all the tyres should ideally kept at the same tread depth and rotated front to back regularly. Again, panel gaps should be right. I don't like the sound of the dealer either, describing it as mint when it isn't.
Dreadfully thirsty? Yes if you are stuck in traffic a lot, but then any car of this size and performance will be. I assume the OP has factored this in to be looking in the first place, so not really an issue.
Have a look on the Subaru website and use the used car finder and be prepared to travel a bit if it sounds good on the phone. When I bought mine a couple of years ago I got £1000 off an already heavily discounted car but travelled to Sheffield from the east coast having bought the car sight unseen (but it was effectivelly new, just 10 miles and pre-reg). Your p/x is worth £100 even as scrap so I'd bung it on ebay and bargain without a p/x and save the dealer the hassle of dealing with it. Prices on big petrol cars should be soft as grease now. Deal down to his 'lowest' price and then walk away. A pound to a penny he'll ring you later with lower price.
You'll probably find the smaller rural dealers are better, they're usually family-run and often sell Subarus alongside combine harvesters and Ssang-Yongs.
The question is: did you like the car enough to want one?
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I'm keeping an eye on the saloon car prices and there are occasionally some very cheap motors to be had.
I personally don't want the specB as its the comfort and sure footedness of the standard 4WD that i'm after, plus getting lazier by the day so its auto.
There's a 10000 miler 06 3.0R auto saloon on sale at the usual at the mo for £10.5K.
Obviously thats not the estate your after and not the specB, but its another very reasonably priced 3 litre that hasn't shifted for a couple of weeks.
The motor you are looking at does sound a bit dear to me.
I wouldn't want the one your looking at for two reasons apart from the price.
One, the dealer or the previous owner couldn't be bothered to get the wheels sorted to make the car good again, and why has it got one dodgy tyre, and your unsure of the alignment of a bumper, sounds to me like the previous clumsy driver has whacked it into a kerb or small prang and bent something.
There are some immaculately kept examples about, keep looking.
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Perhaps not pertinent to the OP but I see that the official Subaru site now has the saloon Legacy available with the new diesel engine. Haven't seen this confirmed anywhere else.
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Well, as predicted by Nick, the dealer rang me back and left a message implying that he would come down to the price I was willing to pay. By then I'd decided I wanted car in better condition, and told him so. Interesting that he's now describing it as 'above average' whereas before I viewed it was 'mint'.
I have some sympathy with the previous owner on the tyre though - if I were to get a puncture with 10k left in the tyres I'd be reluctant to change all of them (at £125+ per corner).
In answer to 'did you like the car enough to want one?' I'd have to say 'yes'. I liked the engine, the handling, the styling, the anticipated reliability, the gizmos (heated windscreen wipers!), the build quality. Apart from the downside of fuel costs (overall it will cost me £60 a week more than my aged Mazda to run) the only quibbles were the rather naff computer graphics (v. japanese - but then I'd level the same accusation at the Skyline tested by Clarkson recently) and the chrome effect side mouldings and wheels are a tad 'bling' - and you can't get the latter refurbed if they are damaged, apparently.
I also thought the brakes were a bit soft on the one I tested - is this a feature of Legacy Spec B's or is it an indicator of new pads required?
Thanks for all the earlier feedback - it gave me the confidence to turn down the deal and keep looking for an immaculate example.
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and wheels are a tad 'bling' - and you can't get the latter refurbed if they are damaged apparently.
I assume they are chrome painted, as against chrome, giving a polished alloy finish.
If you hunt round i am sure there are some refurbishing companies who can apply these effects, i remember a discussion on my MB forum some time ago where some of the chaps had seen wheels painted with this special chrome effect paint, that gave a very similar result to diamond cutting and laquering, but without the very short life span of the latter. I'm surprised the dealer doesn't know about this.
Glad you've elected to continue looking by the way.
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Thanks for that - definitely worth knowing about the refurbishers. It's been really helpful to get Backroomers' advice on the wisdom of waiting for the right car. I only hope that petrol prices don't continue to drop(!) as that could interfere with my strategy of picking up a gas guzzler at a rock bottom price....
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Keep the 323...............And buy a manual Spec B!
Many ways to insure 2 cars now, trundle in town with 323 and enjoy Legacy.
I sold my 07 STi spec D impreza and bought a (manual) Spec B, it is much better on fuel than impreza 100 miles MORE per tank min. (I do longer journeys) and i have a civic for town and supermarket dints.
Prices will drop but people who trade down don't all buy Priuses, they may come down from bigger engine/more expensive, so there will always be demand.
E55 mercs dead cheap till people cottoned on and prices firmed.
Too many muppets distress selling cars already, so grab a bargain and enjoy! But buy a perfect car, plenty of choice now.
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