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Has anyone bought a cloned car? When you were informed that the car is cloned and that the insurance owns the car and want it back but is willing to sell to you at a price. If you did buy it back from the insurance company then what happens to the status to the car? I mean that it will be given a new set of number plates but the chassis number etc will be the same as the cloned car. When you sell the car what will HPI flag up? Will any flag/warning from HPI greatly reduce or put off potential customers.
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Haven't bought one but I hired one recently.
It was an, erm... Hyundai. No, hold on, Kia.
Hang on a sec, it must have been a Toyota, as the... nope, my mistake. Seat then, that was it. Definitely a Seat. Or maybe it was a Mazda.
That's the trouble with these modern cars - they all look the same! :-)
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A guy on Cars, cops and criminals on BBC1 last week did exactly that.
He had purchased a cloned Landrover for £14000 and the insurance company wanted it back, or £14k.
He said he offered them £1000 and they accepted.
It must have been given a legitimate identity for this obviously, but that was not explained.
Presumably it flags up on HPI etc with this status, perhaps someone can enlighten.
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I watched it too and also wondered what would happen regarding the original vehicle. Surley with both cars legally on the road and both having the 'same' VIN details, it would cause confusion somewhere when either was sold? I wonder what details were showing on the cloned cars log book?
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the cloned car was once something else, that was stolen and hidden as the clone. Once recovered and the then lawful owner (insurance co.) authorises it, it can drive around on its' original identity
it might need to have some identity numbers re-stamped in though and/or vin plates attached
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could you tell me more about this.
do i report it to the police and what are my chances of gettin the car back?
thanks
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what are tha chances of gettin the car back from the insurance company?
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Wazza, did you find out anything in the end? Presumably you or a friend has been a victim?
My wife and I got back last night from buying a car and started to put 2 and 2 together as soon as we got home. The clonee had appeared at auction last week and there must have been an insider who released all the details of the V5 because they created a new duplicate V5 but doctored the serial number of the V5 to match the clonee. I only started to look at the documents more clearly when I realised the the instruction manual for the car was for the previous model. The tax disc had also been doctored. I contacted the police and they came over today and confirmed that it had been stolen on the 21st July.
Does anybody know what the likelihood is that the insurance company will already have paid out and therefore written it off thereby leaving us able to bid with them to keep the car and avoid what will otherwise be a total loss?
Any help gratefully accepted! Please be sympathetic!
Edited by Humpy on 20/08/2008 at 23:27
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I doubt the rightful owner of the car will have got a penny yet. It used to be 28 days before the insurance company started the procedure of an offer and a pay out on a missing car in case it turned up. A different story if it was found burnt out or wrecked of course.
How much did you spend on this car? I have a nasty feeling it might be a case of ending up with no money and no car but I hope not for your sake.............
Edited by stuartl on 20/08/2008 at 23:49
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Ah, I see. I think this has answered a puzzle for me.
A lot of damaged cars I see on car transporters have black tape over the number plate. I guess this is to avoid a clone car being produced. The chances of seeing a damaged car back on the road any time soon is less than one parked in a street whose number is copied. Less chance of being rumbled I suppose.
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Surely you would not want to clone a number from a (terminally?) damaged car unless you actually had it in your posession! The first action of the owner (or insurance company) will be to cancel the RFT and insurance! First ANPR check will result in a stop!
pmh
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Interestingly, my wife was driving the car back that night and we were followed for some distance by a traffic car which never pulled her ever though the car turned out not to have tax. It was insured becasue I had set that up. APNR not working or perhaps no tax is not a big deal?
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Mmmm, that's what I feared. Most likely that we will end up with nothing.
We paid £9k. It has been just 31 days since it was stolen.
Thanks for replying anyway.
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Humpy, who did you buy from - dealer, auction, private? Did you HPI etc it? There may be a hope somewhere amongst that lot that there may be a way of obtaining your money back?
Unless you handed over £9k in readies to a hoodie at a service station!
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I paid readies to a guy posing as trade who met me at his 'father's ' house. I paid in the kitchen although thinking back it was fairly empty.
The car appeared in Autotader and the guy I spoke to gave me the VIN, V5 serial number, 1st registration date and number plate. I ran an HPi check and it was all clear apart from the fact that it had outstanding finance. I spoke to the bloke again and stated the outcome of the HPi check and he said that he had paid the outstanding finance at the auction and it would soon be clear. Indeed I spoke to BCA and BMW financial services who ultimately gave me clearance that the finance had indeed been paid off and the car was clear to be sold. Having spoke to all these people I convinced myself the car was genuine. Unfortunately I failed to spot the fact that the VIN on the car I bought had been tampered with as had the V5 and the tax disc. It was well done and they must have had someone inside the auction house for all that info and to be able to duplicate the V5 onto what must have been a stolen blank form. All the VINs on the car had been changed quite credibly.
The HPi guarantee does not cover us because they do not cover clones if you pay over £3000 in cash.
Edited by Humpy on 21/08/2008 at 23:12
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"Interestingly, my wife was driving the car back that night and we were followed for some distance by a traffic car which never pulled her ever though the car turned out not to have tax. It was insured becasue I had set that up. APNR not working or perhaps no tax is not a big deal?"
Not all Traffic cars have ANPR in them.
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I'm a little rusty on Deception which has now been replaced by the Fraud Act.
As the vehicle has only recently been stolen then its ownership still belongs to the original owner. Had the insurance paid out it would belong to them. Either way they are entitled to its return.
A Deception has been committed on you to the tune of £9000 in other words you believed that the vehicle was legitimate and by the manner in which the transaction occurred you were deceived into handing over the cash.
I am afraid that you will be the major loser to the tune of £9000.
I feel so sorry for you - its a lot of hard earned money (I hope :-) ) for you.
Scumbags !!!
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Thanks for the sympathy. I understand that the police don't seize cars now, instead we were served a Section 66 so we have to walk past the thing everyday just to rub it in!
Presumably the owner might not want the car back in these circumstances? Having never had a car stolen from me before I don't know what the various possibilities are. If the car is owned by a lease company, which I'm sure it is becasue it's done 50K in 18 months (must be a business car), and because it's stolen/ recovered they will never get the residual value they thought they would. Can they reject it and get the insurance to pay out instead?
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A section 66 notice? I presume thats some form stating that you must not dispose of the vehicle until such time as a decision has been made re its disposal.
The owner will not be able to simply refuse the car. Th insurance company will want to mitigate its losses one way or another. If the vehicle has sustained damage to the locks etc then it would pay to put the vehicle back in the condition it was prior to being taken.
Was the vehicle stolen with the keys in it? That opens up another can of worms re insurance.
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Yes, that's right and includes an undertaking not to devalue it in any way and keep it secure while it is the object of a police investigation. The car was stolen with a key, presumably the owner had their house broken into and had their keys taken, or the key we were given has been programmed for the car but it doesn't look like a new one.
As far as I can seen the only damage the car has sustained is to the nearside wing mirror which is missing the casing and glass otherwise the car seems to be spotless.
Interestingly two police officers now have suggested, independently of each other, that we consider not driving the car if possible. I was very suprised, although I had insured it in good faith it is fraudulently taxed, i.e not taxed, and I can't tax it either, but they clearly thought that driving it was an option.
The insurance company are taking their time to contact me. I reported it found on Wednesday and I've had no contact...
Edited by Humpy on 23/08/2008 at 00:56
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Sorry to hear about your predicament. I was "done" many years ago and know how it feels. A bit late now for you but one lesson I learned was never ever pay with cash - get a bank draft and offer to take the seller to the bank to collect it so they know it is genuine - if they refuse and insist on cash then something is not right. The other thing I do is ask the seller (or buyer) if they are happy to have their photo taken - sounds a bit OTT but the point is to see what their reaction is - if they are genuine then it should not be a problem.
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For those of you that took an interest in this thread I thought I would post an update.
We founnd out who the insurer was and got referred to the Innocent Purchases Department. Last week we negotiated and bought the car for £5000. Credit is due to the company and the lady we dealt with, they were great.
In the end apart from the Cat D we have a car that we can be pleased with and did not pay over the odds for.
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Hello Humpy I am trying to find the insurance company for a cloned motorhome I recently bought,that the police have now siezed,I would like to buy it back but I cant find out the ins details to make an offer.To date I have asked the police officer involved but he told me that he cant give me them.I them contacted and paid ASKMID they took my money and then informed me they wont give me the info I require.......anyone have any ideas please.....thankyou.
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Thread locked because Algy has now started a new thread on this subject.
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