Diesel Fuel filters
filter 1)
The element composed of a very high quality looking `fleece`, squeezable (only done with old one) no surface imperfections.
Filter2)
looking as rough as a bears bottom, a hard wound on synthetic material with splintering off flakes standing out at angles on the surface. Bound on roughly and as hard as a rock.
Oil Filter elements
Filter 1)
Corrugated thick pleat element, uniform and quality looking.
Filter2)
Thin looking, slightly variable gap, straight element.
Can`t spell it out clearer of course, but iv`e never seen a worse way to try to save a couple of quid.
Wonder what the canister type filters are like inside?
Regards
Edited by oilrag on 08/07/2008 at 13:47
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All entitled to our own opinions etc.
I have fitted thousands of filters to all sorts of vehicles in my time, using various brands for various reasons including availability.
In that time I have only ever had 1 faulty filter. A "genuine" vauxhall one! Have never used theirs since, unless a customer insists on it; I always inform them that I dont stand the guarantee if so. Vauxhall didnt stand the guarantee for the faulty one; because they didnt fit it ! As if that was what caused the problem!
You may also want to be aware that at most main dealers the filters are obviously bought in bulk, not individually wrapped and are often left open to the workshop/stores area and its atmosphere before being fitted to any vehicle!
I always try to use Mahle filters personally. Qulity source, individually protected and guaranteed in writing!
No doubt others will tell us of faulty other makes?
And to be clear I do not support the use of cheap unknown brands.
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Wonder what the canister type filters are like inside?
Do you fancy doing a project like this for the UK market then, hoilyrag?
www.knizefamily.net/minimopar/oilfilters/index.html
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Interesting Yorkie, thanks. I did wonder about the packaging, but the difference in the fleece fuel filters really was astounding, maybe looks don`t matter though?
jbif, I did cut used diesel canister type fuel filters open in the past.... lets hope i don`t get more interested ;)
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I have always used Unipart or Partco filters on my vehicles - never had any problems what so ever.
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Interesting that this thread should be on today as:-
I took my wife's MINI ONE to a local garage (used them before - they're ok) for an oil/filter change, with my approval they fitted an aftermarket filter made by a "well known name" plus the correct spec synth 5-30 oil.
Drove home ok and parked up, went to move car half an hour later and noticed the oil light stayed on whilst idling. Did some more starting up and it seemed to be that as soon as the car was left for more than a few minutes and restarted the oil light remained on at idle.
Back to the garage - filter was removed, it "looked" ok, so the old BMW filter was fished out of the bin and refitted & the oil light went straight out and remained out.
So - a new BMW filter has been ordered and will be fitted tomorrow (FOC).
I don't think I'll bother with the "well known name" again !!!
Jacks
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Don't normally buy aftermarket filters, have found the price difference to be too little to consider.
I have bought the Mahle and found them as good.
Can't remember why, but i bought a pattern part canister fuel filter for the landcruiser some years ago, ( a very British sounding name, not as that means anything any more) the vehicle wouldn't start after, couldn't prime it, i removed the filter to check, thats when i found the stamping that takes the rubber gasket was out of shape, not by damage, but by bad stamping out.
Wouldn't risk that again, could have cost an engine had it been the oil filter.
I suppose i should have examined before fitting, but thats sort of having a dog and barking yourself.
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I bought a oil filter for my sister's Citroen recently at my local motorfactor that mainly sells motaquip branded own make parts. Anyway the box said motorquip on it but the filter itself was stamped with Peugeot markings all over it, proper original PSA equipment and was a lovely shade of blue.
Sometimes own brand is identical stuff.
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You're right, I'm not aware of a single vehicle manufacturer that makes filters.
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odd problem jacks.
If a filter will not flow oil properly (which your case sounds like) then the engine should still receive ample oil (admittedly unfiltered) which would not allow the oil light to stay on at idle!
A symptom of oil light staying on too long at start up would indicate a filter with a non working (or non fitted) anti drain valve.
2 different symptoms.
Would recommend the dealer to explain why if it was mine !
And to RichieW
Motaquip is the official spares division of Peugeot/Citroen. No surprise you got an original Peugeot part in the box !
Edited by yorkiebar on 09/07/2008 at 00:14
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Yorkiebar,
I usually buy spares for my Ford there so that explains my ignorance. I expect to see 'pattern' parts in the box usually. I'm not familar with these French cars. Am still pretty sure I didn't pay main dealer prices though.
To return to the orginal thread though I always take a good look at a filter before I fit it, give it a good shake etc. There was a good thread on this site years ago about an (American?) bloke who had disected various brands of oil filter and made various comparisons.
If I didn't think an oil filter was up to the job it wouldn't touch the engine or it would get binned if it gave top end rattle after an oil change. You just have to use your senses and a bit of common sense. Was it ever any different?
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Never any different in my experience!
And to explain about motaquip further. It is the official spares division of peugeot/citroen; but sells to the aftermarket. You wont (often) buy motaquip boxed stuff at the puegeot/citroen dealers but you will get their stuff in motaquip boxes at factors/shops etc.
Imo all their stuff they sell for all other makes is well sourced and of good quality.
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Thanks for the explanations Yorkie, I always find your posts interesting and of course knowledgeable.
If anyone is browsing in that `well known accessory store` though, they could take a look at the newly stocked, open element diesel fuel filter for a 2003+ Punto 1.3 Multijet and contrast it with the one Fiat dealers supply.
Must be someone who would like a little diversion!
Anyway, here`s the other (UK) filter examination link from an earlier thread
tinyurl.com/6p9w7
Edited by oilrag on 09/07/2008 at 06:48
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Do remember though; I dont personally know of ANY vehicle manufacturer that make their own filters.
Therefrore they have to be bought in; somebody makes them, who also sells to the aftermarket.
I know of various names that are used by different assemblers (they all buy from more than 1 source even for the same filter), some are dismissed by others as poor though!
Doesnt matter to me where people buy filters from but it wont convince me that oe are automaticallybetter.
More likley to be correct for the engine? Possibly.
Then consider the same engine fitted to 2 totally different makes of vehicle. The filter from 1 often appears to be totally different to the 1 supplied from the other. Does that make 1 good and 1 bad?
Too many variables imo.
Ime experience it is more important to buy from a recognised source with a traceable supply chain that will stand up next to you if there is ever a problem! (that may probably mean main dealer to most 1 off purchasers)
Has anybody actually suffered as a result of a bad oil filter? I dont know of many instances even in the trade!
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odd problem jacks.
A symptom of oil light staying on too long at start up would indicate a filter with a non working (or non fitted) anti drain valve.
yorkiebar - The new BMW filter was fitted by the garage (a local all makes independent) this morning and the oil light problem remained - so I, and the garage were wrong to blame the filter!
The answer?
The technician who changed the oil had never serviced a new MINI before - the paper filter element on these has to be pre seated onto the block - it requires some force to do this - and then the filter is removed, placed in the cannister which has a spring in the base, and then screwed onto the block.
Once he had done this, we had no further problems!
The filter cannister on this model points upwards - if you understand my meaning - and the filters (both of them) were incorrectly fitted and not sealing correctly against the block housing causing oil to drain out of the filter.
The garage was a bit embarassed but we all had a laugh and no harm done!
J
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What? I have seen filter elements like this on many makes which need pushing home firmly onto the 'core', and that's only as a DIYer, for someone in the trade to be like this is very worrying, and shows why these people should have at least NVQ level 2 before being allowed to do anything more than sweep the workshop. Most people probably wouldn't have worried about the light like you did and so the car could have never had filtered oil for a year.
The technician who changed the oil had never serviced a new MINI before - the paper filter element on these has to be pre seated onto the block - it requires some force to do this - and then the filter is removed, placed in the cannister which has a spring in the base, and then screwed onto the block.
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I recall an incident that a friend (truck dealer) had a few years ago. Customer came in when his truck engine seized and tried to claim repairs under warranty Dealer refused as oil filter was not marked with truck manufacturer's name and was OEM. Customer did some reseach and got hold of OEM company video which showed a very brief clip of the filter production line - it showed the filters for OEM and Truck Manufacturer coming off same line but being sprayed with different colours and logos. Presented with the evidence that OEM was exactly the same spec except for the external packaging, dealer had to replace the seized engine.
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