is this my fault? - fox83
had an accident today. I was pulling out of a road, turning left onto a narrow one way street. there were cars parked to the right and to the left. immediatly to the left by the junction there was a transit van parked on double yellow lines which was an obstuction, there was no-where for me to go as it was one way so i tried to go past. I hit the van. there is damage to my left wing of my car and the bumper was completely hanging off. there was no damage to his vehicle. i pulled over and my passenger and i observed a gentleman guiding another car around this van.
I waited 20 mins and eventually a man came back to the van,the driver was the man guiding the second car around him, he clearly knew he was obstructing the road! he apparantly had been delivering to a local temple. he didnt understand my attitude to his parking and said that i should have seen his hazard lights. he refused to give me his insurance details and left. i took his reg number and informed the police. my insurance company have told me that as much as i wish to dispute liability, despite his vehicle being illegally parked and causing an obstruction, as it was stationary when i hit it, i probabaly wont get very far.

am i just supposed to accept this?
Reply With Quote
is this my fault? - Manatee
I can sympathise, and the van driver was clearly wrong to obstruct the road; but you weren't obliged to drive into it, so if it was clearly visible the collision must be solely your fault IMHO.

In your position I'd be kicking myself but I don't think it would occur to me to claim from the other driver.

Edited by Manatee on 12/06/2008 at 23:26

is this my fault? - adverse camber
So you drove into a stationary vehicle and think it isn't your fault?

Perhaps you should give up driving.
is this my fault? - Lud
Your rear wing and rear bumper?

Hard luck. Write it down to experience. You graunched a stationary vehicle. Did it sustain any damage?
is this my fault? - fox83
the way that i see it i had three choices, Reverse back up a one way street, turn right into a one way street or try and go round the van, i tried and failed what should i have done? sat there all day until the incompetent van driver came back. I have no points, never even so much as got a scratch on my car, so no, i have no intention of giving up driving.
is this my fault? - fox83
not a mark on the other vehicle!! wish idve chucked a brick through his window now!
is this my fault? - rtj70
The way I see it there were at least 2 other options:

1. Find the van driver or wait for him - he was not far and won't have been parked as he was
2. Phone the police

If he was really blocking the road nobody behind you could really complain. Lets hope he does not find damage to the van.

It's a lesson learned. But smashing into a parked vehicle even if illegally parked is not going to get far in terms of a claim. And throwing a brick through the window would be criminal damage.
is this my fault? - fox83
appreciate the response. i was on the phone to the police when the driver was ranting and raving and becoming incredibly abusive towards me about how there was no need to exchange insurance details as there was no damage to his van, i also have photos on my phone and an appointment at the police station in the am as he failed to give his insurance details.
is this my fault? - rtj70
My suggestion was calling the police before you "crashed" into his van. He was stationary.

Take a deep breath and maybe move on and get your car fixed privately. Otherwise you might have a claim, lose now no claims bonus and have no hope of any recovery.

Yes he was badly parked.... but what if someone in his position broke down? Or had a puncture? You cannot physically force past and then make a claim surely?
is this my fault? - rtj70
There is damage to your wing and the bumper hanging off - at what point did you realise you'd hit the van but still continued to do damage? You're lucky he's not claiming from you - but he still might if he knows the registration number.
is this my fault? - Bromptonaut
Yes. You tried to squeeze past a parked vehicle and failed. Fact that it was illegally parked is immaterial. Any of us who've driven for a year or two have made these sort of mistakes - chalk it to experience.

I work in a one way London thoroughfare - it gets blocked in the way you describe about once a week. The traffic just has to wait.
is this my fault? - fox83
in a nut shell yes, your right. i was just trying to squeeze past. I think what annoyed me more than anything was the drivers attitude. I didnt recklessly smash into his van. he was rude and abusive and tried to tell me that parking on double yellow lines was ok if you're delivering somewhere he was gone atleast half an hour. he didnt seem to understand the need to give me his details. This was in reading..... i wont be going there again.
is this my fault? - doctorchris
You know, I think I'm becoming rather Italian/French in my attitude to minor scrapes now that my Panda is 3 years old. I find it makes life less stressful.
Yesterday, at a particularly badly designed slip road onto the Newcastle central motorway, then aren't they all on that road, a huge pink stretched limo scraped the plastic rubbing strips on the side of the car as he tried to squeeze between me, stationary and the crash barrier on his nearside.
Now I could have got all heated and angry but as a bit of polishing up with a Dremel will disguise most of it I decided it was not worth a confrontation. Another factor, I read somewhere that a large percentage of stretched limos are run by participants in organised crime, so just got on with my day. You know, I actually feel better for doing that than trying to get money out of someone else with all the hassle involved.
OK, another factor is the parts concerned are only black plastic and don't need painting, won't rust.
is this my fault? - Lud
In I suppose the mid 80s dc, Place de la Republique in Paris in rush hour, lanes 2 and 3 of I guess five or six, a Citroen CX brushed its scuffed n/s front wing against my VW 411's even more scuffed n/s (rhd, geddit) front wing as we inched forward in the traffic. The CX driver and I made deadpan eye contact, mine slightly more oppressively deadpan than his. After a moment his expression became marginally less deadpan and he shrugged, Froggishly. No one but an idiot could possibly have taken offence, or bothered to get out of the car...

Edited by Lud on 13/06/2008 at 00:45

is this my fault? - Leif
Sadly it does sound like your fault. I would be glad if the other driver was not going to claim on insurance, as that allows you to pay for your own repairs which will probably be cheaper than the increase in premium over 3+ years due to loss of NCB.

At best he will get some blame, but you still lose your NCB, and the end result is the same.
is this my fault? - rtj70
I'm with leif... and kick up too much fuss, involve insurance and the police and you might find it's your fault and there was damage to his van which costs your insurer.
is this my fault? - pendulum
You hit a stationary vehicle. You don't have a chance of claiming from him! Furthermore, now that you have aggrevated him, he may well now initiate a claim against you. His claim is far more likely to be successful, seeing as you have apparently admitted to your insurance company and to the police that you drove in to his stationary vehicle!

I suggest you could have handled things much more wisely.
is this my fault? - FotheringtonThomas
he refused to give me his insurance details and left.


To me, that's the most interesting bit.
is this my fault? - Fullchat
Without going too deep. If there was no damage to his vehicle or injury then its not a 'reportable' collision. The other driver is therefore under no obligation to furnish details.
Having said that there must have been something even if it was a scuff.
is this my fault? - Westpig
Without going too deep. If there was no damage to his vehicle or injury then
its not a 'reportable' collision. The other driver is therefore under no obligation to furnish
details.

Fc,

Sorry old chap, have to disagree. An accident is something that a normal member of public perceives is an accident... which could cover the unlikely scenario where there's been a bump and no one has any damage (stated case).

In this matter, as described, one vehicle has no damage and the other one does.. and the legislation states 'if owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road... an accident occurs'.. etc

so owing to the presence of the van an accident occurred by another vehicle and despite the fact it seems the other driver's at fault the van driver still has to comply with the RTA legislation and suppy his name and address etc...and eventually his insurance. By refusing he commits an offence...

is this my fault? - Statistical outlier
By refusing he commits an offence...


True, but if I was the OP I would be very hesitant to chase it up. Frankly catching a vehicle you're trying to squeeze past would be understandable. Catching it such that you wreck a panel and rip a bumper off - that sounds like careless driving to me!
is this my fault? - jbif
... so owing to the presence of the van an accident occurred by another vehicle and despite the fact it seems the other driver's at fault the van driver


I know you are right but I think the law was framed without considering all the possible implications. For example, say you parked your van [legally or illegally is not the issue] and went in to a shop. Some minutes later you come back and you are confronted by the driver of a car who says his car has been in collision with your van and the dent on his car was caused by that collision. You look at your van and neither you nor the driver can pinpoint any damage to prove where the impact with the van is alleged to have occurred. He demands your insurance details. You say to that driver "sorry mate, there is no evidence of any collision with my van. You have made up the story." [ Because either you really don't believe his story, or you know for a fact you have seen that car before a number of times in the last week, and you had observed that it had the dent already].

But according to the law, just because your van is there and even if it has no evidence of any collision, you are obliged to give your details this driver who claims to have collided with the van.

Incidentally, the Government has this to warning to drivers regarding "fault":
www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycod...8
"..be aware that even if a road traffic incident is not your fault, you may still be held liable by insurance companies."



is this my fault? - FotheringtonThomas
so owing to the presence of the van an accident occurred by another vehicle and
despite the fact it seems the other driver's at fault the van driver still has
to comply with the RTA legislation and suppy his name and address etc...and
eventually his insurance. By refusing he commits an offence...


This was my take on the story, because...

Exceptions can't be made for people who *think* it wasn't their fault, or there'd be mayhem.
If "it" really isn't totally their fault, their actions may still have some relevance.
I'm sure there are other reasons.

The fact that someone pushes off without providing details would arouse my suspicions that perhaps their presence was not absolutely legitimate - no insurance, perhaps? No MOT? No tax? Involved in some dodgy undertaking, maybe?
is this my fault? - Lud
Why should an innocent badly parked van driver have to give his insurance details to someone who has driven into his stationary van without damaging it? Let people complain. He didn't do it and doesn't know anything about it.

Sometimes in a place where I go in the country there is pressure on parking space, don't ask me why because it doesn't bother me. But for a long time I had dead and dying cars there up to two or three at a time.

One night a sort of relation turned round prattishly in his Ford Focus, making a dog's dinner of a simple 3 pointer, and ripped the outside of its utterly carp, useless and complicated back bumper off against something else entirely. However he blamed me for having my dead Arna in the way and I saw a muddy little furious footprint against one of its rear doors.

A really carp workman often wants to blame his tools, or even someone else's.
is this my fault? - billy25
>>Why should an innocent badly parked van driver have to give his insurance details to someone who has driven into his stationary van without damaging it? <<

I agree! - if it was the case that detail exchange had to legally take place in such situations, every "oick and Herbert" with a dented motor would make a living driving around looking for such situations to exploit!. Sorry O.P, i think i would head into the shadows on this one!

Billy
is this my fault? - krs one
OP , you should think yourself lucky you didn't damage his van, sounds like he was being quite reasonable but your attitude probably wound him up.
If there wasn't a queue of cars stuck behind his van maybe there was there was room to get through, but your driving caused the problem.
is this my fault? - oilrag
With Respect,

Reading this thread triggered a memory of the woman posting a while back, about how the wind had damaged her rear door. She seemed to be saying that because there was no visible sign of a gale before she got out of the car, that the manufacturer (not her) was to blame.

OP, you drove into a parked vehicle. It seems to me you are lucky the van driver hasn`t found a small mark on his rear bumper and decided to chase you up, just for the principle of the thing , following your alleged attitude to him.

Anyway, i would just put it down to experience, but also question why a presumably VERY slow speed manoeuvre past a stationary vehicle would lead to your bumper being ripped off.

For me, the latter (awareness) would be far more of an issue than `fault`.

Wishing you well.

regards

Edited by oilrag on 13/06/2008 at 08:16

is this my fault? - Westpig
>>if it was the case that detail exchange had to legally take place in such situations every "oick and Herbert" with a dented motor would make a
living driving around looking for such situations to exploit!.

that has actually happened to me. Couple of toerags in a Vectra estate with old damage tried to claim that i'd damaged their car. Received threatening phone calls re them trashing my car one night.

Long old story (they were in a funeral procession!). I advised my ins co. of the incident and that i did not authorise them to make any payment as there was no damage to either vehicle from that incident, it being a fraudulent claim.

Eventually i had to contact their legal assistance solicitor and explain a few facts, stating i reserved the right to make a formal allegation of Attempting to Pervert the Course of Justice, that maybe their insurance company needed to investigate an Attempted Fraud and eventually when (not if) it got to court i'd be making an allegation of Perjury if they continued and gave evidence under oath.

That was the last i heard about it. Not an overly pleasant experience though, particularly as i lived less than 300 yds from the original incident and drove a distinctive car with a personal plate, so worried for a while about it being damaged.
is this my fault? - Westpig
p.s.

would loved to have seen their faces if they visited the address i gave them...as it was the police station i was then posted to
is this my fault? - FotheringtonThomas
Why should an innocent badly parked van driver have to give his insurance details to
someone who has driven into his stationary van without damaging it?


Don't details have to be exchanged in the case of a crash (not just by the person apparently at fault)?
is this my fault? - kithmo
Don't details have to be exchanged in the case of a crash (not just by
the person apparently at fault)?

Not necessarily, e.g. if someone is having an aggresive rant at you because he crashed into your illegally parked vehicle, you are not obliged to give him your name and address (so as he can come round and smash your windows) as long as you report the incident to the police within a certain timeframe (IIRC 48hrs?). It sounds as if the van driver either may have no insurance so doesn't want to involve police or may just not wish to report the accient so as not to prejudice his own NCB or future insurance quotes where they ask if you've had ANY accidents in the last X years, fault or non-fault.
Due to the second reason, I would probably be the same if someone hit my car and did no damage, and if there were no witnesses I'd deny all knowlege of the accident if questioned by the plod, after all if the van driver didn't see the accident and there's no damage to his van then how does he know there even was a collision, he probably thinks the OP is a scammer trying to get some kind of compensation from him (compensation for his own inability to manouvre ???).

Edited by kith on 13/06/2008 at 14:53

is this my fault? - Westpig
Not necessarily e.g. if someone is having an aggresive rant at you because he crashed into your illegally parked vehicle you are not obliged to give him your name and
address (so as he can come round and smash your windows) as long as you
report the incident to the police within a certain timeframe (IIRC 48hrs?).


You should exchange names and addresses at the time, but the courts have accpeted over the years many watered down versions e.g. work address or contact address. I would only give out my work address and contact number. If for any reason you don't exchange n/add at the time you have to report to police;

'as soon as is reasonably practicable and in any case within 24 hours'

many people have fallen foul of the 'as soon as...etc' and wandered in after 23 hours, which depending on the excuse might not be acceptable
is this my fault? - L'escargot
there
is damage to my left wing of my car and the bumper was completely hanging
off.


In view of the above, I find the following very hard to believe.
there was no damage to his vehicle.


In fact I just don't believe it at all.
is this my fault? - Cliff Pope
It's possible. Some vehicles are virtually undamageable. Someone once nipped up the inside lane in heavy traffic and ripped his rear bumper off as he cut in front of me from the nearside. But old LandRovers were built for shunting things, and had appropriate bumpers.
is this my fault? - b308
I agree, CP, it was a van which are usually pretty strong around the bumper area and probably already had the odd scatch - put it down to experience, and perhaps take a look at the width of your car so you can judge more acurately in future whether you can get through the gap - its one of my pet hates that many drivers these days seem incapable of working out the width of their car and will come down a line of parked cars on your side of the road even when there is a good two foot on their near side - if you're not sure don't go!


BTW that short interlude in Paris earlier in the thread reminded me of my first visit in the early 80s - my mate and I were looking at the parked cars which were all about a couple of inches appart and debaiting how they got out when one owner turned up - got in the car, reversed gently into the one behind and pushed it back, then pushed the one in front and pushed that one forward and then drove off! Can you imagine that happening here?!
is this my fault? - drbe
>>Reply With Quote>>
>>

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
Abraham Lincoln
is this my fault? - Badwolf
>>In fact I just don't believe it at all.

Mr Snail, the other day I witnessed an old chap in a Rover 75 attempt to squeeze past a parked council van blocking the entrance to the council yard. He put a deep scrape down every panel on his car from front wing to back wing but the only evidence of his stupidity on the van was light blue metallic paint that had been left behind the the door hinge.

Cheers.
is this my fault? - Ian (Cape Town)
had an accident today. I was pulling out of a road turning left onto
a narrow one way street. there were cars parked to the right and to the
left. immediatly to the left by the junction there was a transit van parked on
double yellow lines which was an obstuction there was no-where for me to go as
it was one way so i tried to go past.


OK, you tried.
Well done.
Now, replace 'van' with 'mother pushing pushchair' or 'chap in wheelchair' or 'other chap trying to reverse into parking space' or 'poor s*d broken down cos he drives a rover'...
The fact that there was such significant damage to your vehicle and you used the phrase "my passenger and i" and "i observed a gentleman guiding another car around this van."points to the fact you weren't driving with the old due care.
Get the passenger to leap out, and wave you past the obstruction, by all means.
seems like you had just bowled through.
is this my fault? - rtj70
"The fact that there was such significant damage to your vehicle "

I think I'd notice contact especially removing my bumper.... I'm starting to think this is a windup asking if this is his fault or.... well I too think careless driving. And therefore if careless driving stop digging or the van driver WILL claim and win.
is this my fault? - fox83
thanks to everyone who seems to agree that this is entirely my fault. appreciated. I have calmed down somewhat now. I dont believe i was driving recklessly but i probably dont know the width of my car! This isnt a wind up, the driver of the van was the one who said that there was no damage to his vehicle seems transit vans are made of better stuff than my focus. I was perfectly calm when I first approached the driver he only became abusive when i asked for his insurance details, as i was always told that is what you should do. when i gave my insurance company the registration number they said they couldnt find who they were insured by, does this mean that he is not insured? or that they just cant find it?
is this my fault? - rtj70
Maybe try putting the reg in the Motor Insurance Database site:

www.askmid.com/

It should be on there and if not....
is this my fault? - fox83
Thanks for that. It said that it cant process the request as im entering an invalid registration number?
is this my fault? - rtj70
I have never tried entering a van reg but assume it should show up? Anyone else know?

I can put in a car I know is off road without insurance and it says it's not on the database. So an invalid reg.... interesting.
is this my fault? - rtj70
As I thought, after checking some van reg numbers it shows up they are insured - number came from ebay. So either you noted the number wrong or it's not legit. But I can put in numbers that do not exist and do not get that error - e.g. a plate such as AB59ABC says not on the database.

Edited by rtj70 on 13/06/2008 at 23:18

is this my fault? - fox83
yeah have calmed down about the whole situation and yes it was my fault. am still annoyed at his pig ignorant parking and how abusive he was. I figure that i hate driving anyway so im gonna sell my car when its fixed and get a push bike! Im positive that i wrote down the right reg, there is cctv at the parade of shops nearby i think.
is this my fault? - Lud
I have to say fox that you don't sound like one of nature's motorists.

Console yourself with the thought that there is something skewed or distorted - barmy if you like - in the psychology of a car person. It's a funny mix of technophilia and controlled hooliganism. A truly healthy human being would regard it as crazy.

Good luck to you, and for goodness' sake ride your bike with eyes all round your head, thinking hard at all times. You will be all the more alive for it.
is this my fault? - fox83
hmm you're right im not one of natures motorists. I could write what i know about cars on the back of a postage stamp!!! When I picked up my car from its service they handed me the piece of paper and started talking at me, they could have been talking polish for all i know! My eyes glassed over I was thinking about what to cook for dinner. Got home, looked at the piece of paper, apparantly something wrong with my car, dont know what it means because i wasnt paying any attention. i shouldnt drive.
is this my fault? - b308
hmm you're right im not one of natures motorists.


Don't worry, most people aren't - its common knowledge that when people get behind the wheel of a car they grow two horns and a forked tail!! ;)
is this my fault? - davmal
I once got shunted by a W H Smith delivery van whilst at a set of temporary lights. Really difficult to explain to the insurers that I had been hit by a stationery vehicle :-)
is this my fault? - David Horn
Ah, it was the drink that killed my grandfather. He was run over by a Guinness truck.













Not my joke, but a good one all the same!
is this my fault? - fox83
have just picked my car up from the garage, it has been in there since the erm accident 3 weeks ago, it feels really odd driving it and one side is definately a different colour than the other!! I am not happy. can i take it back again as something is not right?
 

Value my car