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Edited by Dynamic Dave on 23/08/2008 at 00:46
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I enjoyed it...and despite being a motor racing nut, there's plently of F1 races that
i've dozed off through. I don't usually like Monaco because of the lack of overtaking, but fair enough, it kept me interested.
Felt sorry for Sutil...but he'll come again.
Interesting comment on the car's radio to Hamilton, something akin to 'well done, it's arguable you should have had the last one' (can't remember the exact wording)..
..but to me meant they agreed he falsely lost the last one, which at the end of the year would have meant he would have won the world championship...oops
Edited by Pugugly on 25/05/2008 at 19:33
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i blame the usual kiss of death commentry by allen and brundle for sutils demise, it never fails .... and i wish coulthard would own up to pilot error once in a while for his driving , what was todays excuse ? oh "nakajima's spray, pull the other one
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Good race, enjoyed it a lot! Monaco in the wet, in the first season for years without TC was bound to be entertaining.
Hamilton drove a blinder, including a cracking move on Raikkonen into turn 1 on the first lap. Good luck to him.
Cheers
DP
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I was sorry for Sutil as well, but it looks likely he would have been pushed down anyway for overtaking under yellows on lap 13.
tinyurl.com/5f3g4d
Tined the link
Edited by Pugugly on 25/05/2008 at 23:04
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Sorry, PU, you beat me to it tinyurl.com/5setjp
I was probably too late to edit anyway.
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Oh, come on. Someone overtook at Monaco?
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Surely this must be DC's last season in F1? What is he actually contributing to the team,or what has he contributed to any team recently?
I would love to say he is living on past glories but lets face it, he hasn't really had many of them? As mentioned above he always blames other people for errors but many of the times its his fault. He regularly doesn't finish, and gathers few points.
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Sadly, have to agree regarding DC.
I like him and have always wished him well but I think he's lost what it takes, and he's too accident prone.
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Great race - thoroughly enjoyed it, and fortunately because of past problems with ITV's EGP (electronic programme guide) I set up a manual record on the Sky+ just in case the race over-ran - which it did. It appears to be the only channel it does it on. All other channels seem to cope with programmes that over-run.
Missed Saturday qualifying as there was a power cut from 12:15 to 14:30 in our area.
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regarding DC. I think he's lost what it takes.
I supose he must have had it at some time but he lost my respect when he gave up that race in Australia because of a prior "agreement", I'd still suport him if he was doing well but I never saw him as winner, let alone a world champ, after that....
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I actually think that D.C. has been the most consistent driver this year. Camera pans to pile of debris and there he is, consistently in the thick of it. He is even playing games with us now, Monaco qualifying he really did test our imagination by just leaving a wheel on the track and hiding the rest of the wreckage down the slip road. Still, he reverted to normal in the race!
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I think you're being too harsh on DC. He often doesn't qualify so well, not compared to Webber anyway...but quite a lot of the time does well in the race. He apparently gives very good feedback to the engineers, which has been invaluable to the team to date.
recent DNFs won't do him any favours and may well lose him his seat...but i think overall he hasn't been that bad.
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He apparently gives very good feedback to the engineers which has been invaluable to the team to date.
Good test driver then?!
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"I think he's lost what it takes"
He never ever had it. He's the most over-rated driver I have watched since the late seventies. He's been driving nearly 14 years and has notched up an unremarkable 11 wins (less than one a year) despite nearly always driving for a dominant team - Williams when they were unstoppable and then Maclaren. He's always been number two, he crashes in pit lanes and spins off on warm-up laps. When he does win it's "me, me, me" but for the rest of the time when he's falling off or giving up it's "the team, the car, the opposition"
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he did give one hundred and seven percent most of the time :)
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there are some impressive names below him on this chart, albeit 2001 figures:
Wins GPs Driver
53 162 Michael Schumacher
51 199 Alain Prost
41 161 Ayrton Senna
31 186 Nigel Mansell
27 99 Jackie Stewart
25 72 Jim Clark
25 171 Niki Lauda
24 51 Juan Manuel Fangio
23 204 Nelson Piquet
22 115 Damon Hill
20 165 Mika Hakkinen
16 66 Stirling Moss
14 126 Jack Brabham
14 144 Emerson Fittipaldi
14 176 Graham Hill
13 32 Alberto Ascari
12 116 Alan Jones
12 128 Mario Andretti
12 146 Carlos Reutemann
11 99 Jacques Villeneuve
11 124 DAVID COULTHARD
10 92 James Hunt
10 112 Jody Scheckter
10 123 Ronnie Peterson
10 210 Gerhard Berger
8 112 Denny Hulme
8 116 Jacky Ickx
7 149 Rene Arnoux
6 38 Tony Brooks
6 60 Jochen Rindt
6 67 Gilles Villeneuve
6 111 John Surtees
6 175 Jacques Laffite
6 265 Ricardo Patrese
5 33 Giuseppe Farina
5 114 Keke Rosberg
5 132 Clay Reggazoni
5 152 John Watson
5 194 Michele Alboreto
4 86 Dan Gurney
4 101 Bruce McLaren
4 131 Eddie Irvine
3 32 Peter Collins
3 45 Mike Hawthorn
3 48 Phil Hill
3 70 Didier Pironi
3 83 Ralf Schumacher
3 131 Heinz-Harald Frentzen
3 163 Thierry Boutsen
3 165 Johnny Herbert
2 27 Wolfgang von Trips
2 30 Peter Revson
2 49 Jean Pierre Jabouille
2 55 Pedro Rodriguez
2 82 Maurice Trintignant
2 93 Patrick Depailler
2 97 Jo Siffert
2 108 Elio de Angelis
2 114 Patrick Tambay
1 10 Ludovico Scarfiotti
1 17 Juan Pablo Montoya
1 18 Piero Taruffi
1 20 Peter Gethin
1 21 Giancarlo Baghetti
1 26 Froilan Gonzalez
1 31 Gunnar Nilsson
1 42 Lorenzo Bandini
1 46 Francois Cevert
1 50 Innes Ireland
1 52 Richie Ginther
1 72 Carlos Pace
1 74 Vittorio Brambilla
1 77 Alessandro Nannini
1 85 Jean Pierre Beltoise
1 102 Joakim Bonnier
1 105 Jochen Mass
1 108 Oliver Panis
1 148 Reubens Barrichello
Edited by Westpig on 27/05/2008 at 19:10
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found a more up to date one.... if a Mod want to get rid of the previous one i shan't be offended
Michael Schumacher 91
Alain Prost 51
Ayrton Senna 41
Nigel Mansell 31
Jackie Stewart 27
Jim Clark 25
Niki Lauda 25
Juan Manuel Fangio 24
Nelson Piquet 23
Damon Hill 22
Mika Hakkinen 20
Fernando Alonso 19
Stirling Moss 16
Kimi Räikkönen 15
Emerson Fittipaldi 14
Graham Hill 14
Jack Brabham 14
Alberto Ascari 13
DAVID COULTHARD 13
Alan Jones 12
Carlos Reutemann 12
Mario Andretti 12
Jacques Villeneuve 11
Gerhard Berger 10
James Hunt 10
Jody Scheckter 10
Ronnie Peterson 10
Rubens Barrichello 9
Denny Hulme 8
Jacky Ickx 8
Juan Pablo Montoya 7
Rene Arnoux 7
Gilles Villeneuve 6
Jacques Laffite 6
Jochen Rindt 6
John Surtees 6
Ralf Schumacher 6
Riccardo Patrese 6
Tony Brooks 6
Clay Regazzoni 5
Giuseppe Farina 5
John Watson 5
Keke Rosberg 5
Michele Alboreto 5
Felipe Massa 5
Bruce McLaren 4
Dan Gurney 4
Eddie Irvine 4
Lewis Hamilton 4
Didier Pironi 3
Giancarlo Fisichella 3
Heinz-Harald Frentzen 3
Johnny Herbert 3
Mike Hawthorn 3
Peter Collins 3
Phil Hill 3
Thierry Boutsen 3
Bill Vukovich 2
Elio de Angelis 2
Jean-Pierre Jabouille 2
Jo Siffert 2
Jose Froilan Gonzalez 2
Maurice Trintignant 2
Patrick Depailler 2
Patrick Tambay 2
Pedro Rodriguez 2
Peter Revson 2
Wolfgang von Trips 2
Bob Sweikert 1
Carlos Pace 1
Alessandro Nannini 1
Francois Cevert 1
Giancarlo Baghetti 1
Gunnar Nilsson 1
Innes Ireland 1
Jarno Trulli 1
Jean Alesi 1
Jean-Pierre Beltoise 1
Jenson Button 1
Jim Rathmann 1
Jimmy Bryan 1
Jo Bonnier 1
Jochen Mass 1
Johnnie Parsons 1
Lee Wallard 1
Lorenzo Bandini 1
Ludovico Scarfiotti 1
Luigi Fagioli 1
Luigi Musso 1
Olivier Panis 1
Pat Flaherty 1
Peter Gethin 1
Piero Taruffi 1
Richie Ginther 1
Rodger Ward 1
Sam Hanks 1
Troy Ruttman 1
Vittorio Brambilla 1
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Point made I think Westpig.
Motor racing is not pure athletics but has a large cerebral component. The drivers are all individuals but like other athletes they are very focused for the most part and pretty one-track-minded.
Personality is a funny thing, especially through the lens of the media. Some individuals are very good at the public relations side, others notably less so. We all know people who don't show the full beauty of their souls on a first acquaintance. They are reserved or shy or have an unfortunate manner. Indeed some may be actually obnoxious, but DC certainly isn't one of those as far as one can see without knowing him.
Forgive me if this sounds severe BBD, but I must say that your tirade above reminds me of a well-oiled football fan sounding off after his team has just lost. There's something brainless, consumerist and cruel about it, surprisingly coming from you as these are not the qualities you usually display here.
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You're forgiven Lud, seeing as it's you, but believe me I really wanted him to do well of course being a Brit and all that.
A long list of achievements says nothing though, you have to wonder what the other guys would have achieved had they had Coulthard's opportunities and lengthy career.
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There have been and still are other old warhorses who are just part of the scene... Jean Alesi... Rubens Barichello... etc.
Your plea of frustrated patriotism makes me feel I have been curmudgeonly too...
:o}
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The way it happened as I recall was my all-time hero, Senna, died and I was left with Hill to support more by default than anything else. Then this rookie, charming Scottish test driver is given the second drive - promising so much but always doing something dopey and blowing it. Just never championship material and extremely frustrating.
I liked Alesi a lot as it happens, again - frustrating. How many times did he just run out of fuel on the track???
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I liked Alesi a lot as it happens again - frustrating. How many times did he just run out of fuel on the track???
Me too. The heavy Corsican clog of course. Napoleon would have made him a Duke...
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Well Alesi was pushed out of Ferrari to make way for Schumacher, in fact I think he went the opposite way to Benetton. I heard a lovely story that the Ferrari Technicians were staggered when Schumacher first came in after a testing for them - he'd be barking instructions - an extra 2 psi in that tyre, 1 psi in this tyre, 2 degrees on the rear wing an so on and so forth. They had become so accustomed to Alesi jumping out of the car in tears and shouting "This car is crap, I spit on this car" and then storming off to his trailer. Wonderful stuff.
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Reverting to Monaco 2008 {moved to right place in thread in that case} , I only arrived in front of a TV in the middle of the race. At that stage Hamilton was running well behind the leaders and clearly had been ruled out as a contender by our men in the box. He had just turned in a fastest lap of the race.
He continued to be ruled out of all the speculation about who was going to win until really very late in the race. I really liked the way he sneaked up on everyone by going unnoticed in the middle of the pack at terrific speeds. Of course the fates favoured him, but that is part of the recipe for success in most things and especially complex competitive sport.
Was the very sympathetic Raikonnen drunk again or did his brakes snatch? Looked to me as if the car went completely ape under braking.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 27/05/2008 at 22:34
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Graham Hill: Driven
Part of the Kings of Speed. Portrait of motor racing legend Graham Hill whose illustrious racing career spanned three decades. In his lifetime he won the Formula 1 World Championship, the Indy 500 and the Le Mans 24 hours race achieving the 'triple crown' of motor sport - a unique feat that remains unmatched to this day - as well as winning the Monaco Grand Prix five times.
With contributions from Damon Hill, Sir Jackie Stewart, wife Bette, and daughters Brigitte and Samantha Hill. [AD,S]
Mon 26 May, 21:00-22:00 ]
Should be worth a gander. (tonight BBC4)
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Thanks for that PU - really enjoyed seeing Hill, Clark (remember shedding a tear when he died at Hockenheim), Stewart in action again. Also good to spot Ginther, Gurney, Spence, Ireland and many others in the background plus those mechanics whose names I used to know.
Made me think also how "ordinary" these sports stars seemed in those days - like in many other sports - gone are the days when one would travel to the game on the same bus as Stanley Matthews (!) but I do remember talking to the likes of Trueman, Doug Padgett, Brian Close, etc- even Wilfred Rhodes at Scarborough cricket festival, and it isn't so long ago that I would go to Leicester Tigers and then have a pint in the bar and chat to Rory Underwood, Neil Back, Johnno, Dusty Hare etc (even got into a chat with Bath's Andy Robinson when he pushed in front of me -"offside again eh Andy?") - now it's all so money driven there is no contact and they don't seem part of the same world.
Nostalgia ain't what it used to be!
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Forgot to mention - death toll in F1 in those days was appalling and saddening, so many young lives lost - Jackie Stewart deserves great credit for his work in reducing this.
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"Forgot to mention - death toll in F1 in those days was appalling and saddening"
You forget how basic the cars were back then. It was a tub with an engine and wheels. It was interesting to see Martin Brundle drive the old Mclaren (70s car) during ITVs coverage of the Monaco Grand Prix.
For those who missed it, it's also on BBC iPlayer. Which is accessible via more than the PC these days, e.g. iPod Touch/iPhone, Virgin Media set-top box, Wii, PS3 (not official yet?), etc. And probably on catch up TV on Virgin Media too.
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ooh... i could just murder a pint of old original
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For those who missed it...
DOCUMENTARY: Graham Hill: Driven
On: BBC 4
Date: Saturday 31st May 2008 (starting in 4 days)
Time: 20:00 to 21:00 (1 hour long)
Portrait of the eccentric, charismatic British motor racing legend Graham Hill, a man who lived and died during a time when sex was safe and racing was dangerous. Uniquely, he won the Formula 1 World Championship, the Indy 500 and the Le Mans 24 hours, won the Monaco Grand Prix five times and was a great raconteur and a dashing figure with a keen eye for the ladies. Features contributions from family, close friends and former colleagues including son Damon and track rival Jackie Stewart.
(Stereo, Repeat, Widescreen, Subtitles, Audio Described)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Marked By: 'Documenteries' marker
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Excerpt taken from DigiGuide - the world's best TV guide available from www.getdigiguide.com/?p=1&r=19777
Copyright (c) GipsyMedia Limited.
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Is this a 'one-off' or part of a series (note;Kings of Speed???).
If so, when are they on?
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Was it my imagination or did the Hill family emphasise the "on" when they said Damon? Sort of "Daym on", as in "Game on".
Edited by L'escargot on 27/05/2008 at 15:59
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They definately emphasised the "on" part of his name. Actually I think one sister did and the other did not. I'd have to watch it again.
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An example of the Day-mon is around 49 minutes in with one of the sisters.
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Slight topic drift, but after the Hill thing I watched in insomniac mode last night a thing on the land speed record at Bonneville salt flats during the sixties. It wasn't too bad and it was interesting to see the account of the competition between the amply-funded Craig Breedlove and the 'junkyard geniuses' the Arfons brothers, very tough cookies both of whom vied for the LSR but who apparently hated one another following a disagreement.
In the run-up to the main part of the programme there was some old footage of the British who held the record through the thirties and forties into the fifties, essentially George Eyston, Sir Malcolm Campbell and John Cobb. The aircraft-engined monsters they drove were proper cars of course with driven wheels, not trolleys with huge jet engines like the ones the Americans used in the sixties to take the LSR eventually over 600mph.
I was amused, and greatly irritated, by the sound effect the programme's producers had thought fit to add to footage of Bluebirds, Thunderbolt and Cobb's Railton Mobil Special doing their runs: the sound of a modern F1 engine more or less, a shrill scream wholly inappropriate to those very large unsilenced engines which turned (by modern F1 standards) quite slowly and made a sort of vroooming noise. I am tetchy about things like that but it didn't spoil the programme.
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Was annoyed that Donald Campbell did not get a mention. He took the record from John Cobb after a long struggle at several venues.
Who holds the current wheel driven record BTW? Used to be the Summers' brothers car Goldenrod.
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tom burkland if my memory serves me right
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No mention of what happened after the 60s with the Brits coming back into play either!
At least we were first through the sound barrier - for those who don't know about it Coventry Transport Museum has Thrust 2 and a simulater taking you through one of the two sound barrier runs - frightening and exilerating at the same time - well worth a visit and free entry!
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The question of who has the current wheel driven record seems to be a large can of worms.
From a brief look at the information available.
Are we talking piston/turbine engines/flying mile/ flying kilometre/one way record/ two way/various weight categories etc. etc. It is even denied that such a record exists in one place!
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I know what you mean, was looking at this the other day, some records are recognized by some governing bodies but not by others.
Wikipedia says the current wheel-driven record holder is Turbinator, with a shaft turbine helicopter engine (was it 458mph?).
Tom Burklands car is/was the fastest piston engined car, powered by a pair of supercharged Chrysler V8s running on methanol. Did Tom Burklands car retake the record for fastest wheel driven car?
There is a clip on YouTube which states that Burkland exceeded 450mph, but perhaps that was just a terminal speed and not averaged over a flying mile?: snipurl.com/2b0q0
A British team will attempt to break the steam-powered LSR at Bonneville later this year.
Should not be too difficult with modern technology should it? The target to beat is ?only? 145mph, and the Stanley Steamer managed 127mph in 1906!
They reckon the car could do 215mph.
www.steamcar.co.uk/index.htm
Best of luck to them..
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Steam car? One driver and a fireman complete with shovel?
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cheers PU, just watched it....haven't enjoyed a programme so much for a long time, would have missed it otherwise
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and Jackie Stewart won his £50 bet.
I wonder if we will hear who else voted against him?
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Read Kevin Garside's gems of bawling poetic sportswriterese in today's Telegraph. He ends with the suggestion that detectives have been working at great expense on finding out who bubbled the FIA president to the sunday comic, and that they too may soon be shedding blood and guts all over the boardroom floor. It's going to make a great TV movie.
Edited by Lud on 03/06/2008 at 19:41
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Wow! Another great race. Several incidents - helped mainly by the poor state of the track. Lewis failing to spot the red light (maybe he should have read the recent 'If a tree falls over in a forest' thread). I was suprised at Kimi's reaction toward him though. A few years ago that would have earned Lewis a smack in the mouth at the very least, not a pat on the back and a finger waggling at the lights.
Congrats to BMW on their first win, and also to Robert Kubica & Nick Heidfeld for making it a BMW 1-2. Also well done to DC for not only to avoid being hit, or running into someone else and coming 3rd.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 08/06/2008 at 21:56
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"helped mainly by the poor state of the track"
I only saw a bit before the race started - too sunny today!
Did I really hear Mr Brundell discussing with Mr Eccelstone about ' "a certain word that begins with "P" being out there resurfacing the road'.
If so Brundell is an idiot.
Small edit taken place
Edited by Webmaster on 11/06/2008 at 00:09
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One does wonder if the Montreal track authorities had been approached by a 'travelling' salesman who had just finished another job in the area and had some tarmac left over. I've seen better surfaced road in Britain, of all places.
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>>I was suprised at Kimi's reaction toward him though.A few years ago that would have earned Lewis a smack in the mouth at the very least, not a pat on the back and a finger waggling at the lights.
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I suspect LH will get a smack on the bum and sent down 5 /10 places on the next grid, especially as he hit a certain brand of red car:-(
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Lewis & Nico Rosberg have both been served a 10 place grid penalty in the next round (France)
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LH is making a habit of this. Whilst he may be brilliant on the race track. In the pit lane he is a liability. His excuse that the team told him a bit too late was very churlish.
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His excuse that the team toldhim a bit too late was very churlish.
Probably true, though, and there's very little space between the end of the pits and where they were stopped - seems a daft idea to have lights there anyhow - surely it would be better to have a speed limit put in place whilst the safety car is out so they can rejoin safely? Also why line up side by side - they are not allowed to overtake whilst under the SC so the two of them doing that unnecessarily only made a collission inevitable...
Hope full we should see some improvements ot the "under SC rules" and improvements to the pit lane in the future and in the meantime we shall see what Hamilton can do from mid grid!
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made a collission inevitable...
An inevitable collision - I don't think so.
If he didn't see the red light - why not?
Why didn't he see the two cars stopped in front of him?
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Why didn't he see the two cars stopped in front of him?
For an answeer to that question, watch the replay in slow motion [ITV 4 has it on at 6pm tonight]. Note that Rosberg had three cars to spot in front, two of them doing a mating ritual - see photos of the two prangs here:
www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/20...l
Kubica was one lucky guy in that incident - first Hamilton and then Rosberg took avoiding action by steering to the left of Kubica's car.
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Why didn't he see the two cars stopped in front of him?
Their brakes lights weren't working ;o)
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Agree with b308.
The safety car rules are overdue for a complete rewrite.
For example, how can it be fair that a driver who either through tactics [low fuel load] or sheer brilliance drives faster than others and gains a number of seconds advantage in the race is then faced with all that advantage wiped away when a safety car comes out?
If the drivers are allowed to retain a credit of the time they have clocked up until the safety car is deployed, it would remove the mad dash to go in and out of the pits.
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I was suprised at Kimi's reaction toward him though.
Not for nothing is Kimi known as The Ice Man.
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After the previous race he could hardly go on a rant could he!
Edited by b308 on 09/06/2008 at 11:12
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Lewis failing to spot the red light (maybe he should have read the recent 'If a tree falls over in a forest' thread).
Kevin Garside in today's Telegraph: '... We've all been there in our Mondeos...'
Actually young LH just showing he is a chip off the old block. Two low-speed accidents costing hundreds of thousands if not millions of pounds in a week. All right for some, eh?
Edited by Lud on 09/06/2008 at 14:42
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I wish they would stop calling him a British driver he is now Swiss having decided to leave the UK and live with the knomes of Zurich because he is to selfish to pay UK tax.
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Is David Coulthard really a Monegasque, AB?
Funny thing about tax, everyone is too selfish to pay any more of it than they need to. You would have to feel pretty flush to pay British income tax merely to show solidarity with the toiling masses. I suppose if you were a big British landowner you might be more or less obliged to, but my impression is that most big money men are sort of offshore for business purposes.
What makes me feel a bit feeble is not having stolen or earned or been paid enough money to make it worth doing a runner and taking up residence in the Virgin Islands or somewhere. Indeed I would be hard put to it to come up with a Eurotunnel train ticket.
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because he is to selfish to pay UK tax.
Not selfish, IMHO. Just smart. I would do exactly the same.
There is no reward for success here. You're just a target for crime, and for government extortion. If I earned a tenth of what he earns, I'd be on the first plane out of here.
Cheers
DP
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To return to the race, I was hoping for a Kubica win from the moment the two other front runners had their little traffic nerf. He drove a perfect race and deserved the win. Very cool guy in my book.
A pity the art-collecting Nick Heidfeld, who came across sympathetically in a pre-race interview, seemed so sour about his second place. Seemed to think the team had favoured Kubica over him, but that wasn't the way I read it. Kubica was leading throughout, and the team orders were appropriate when Heidfeld had a full tank and Kubica was on a charge. Anyway Kubica's consistently a bit quicker, isn't he?
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I wish they would stop calling him a British driver he is now Swiss
There are millions of people who pay UK tax but are neither allowed to call themselves British, nor do they have rights to live permanently in Britain.
As you well know, nationality is about which country's citizenship you hold [and some countries allow dual or multiple citizenships] whereas domicile for tax is a matter of prudence and wealth.
Incidentally, which country would you say Hamilton's team "Vodafone McLaren Santander Mercedes" belongs to?
[ so that if Kovalienen shoul win one day, we can look forward to hearing that team's national anthem played after the driver's national anthem has been played. At the moment, they play just one for Lewis & Mclaren ].
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>>so that if Kovalienen shoul win one day, we can look forward to hearing that team's national anthem
Money, by Liza Minelli, from the film Cabaret?
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I dont mind him avoiding uk tax just calling himself British to my mind he is a Swiss mercenry.
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AB, do you also say the same about all the others who choose to live abroad, DC was mentioned, but he wasn't the first - there have been many British Sportsmen including many Racing Drivers who have chosen to live abroad...
If I was earning what he is I'm sure I'd do what I could to minimse my tax bill - and I'd also hazard a guess that Switzerland is a lot nicer place to live than over here...
Get over it, eh!
Edited by b308 on 09/06/2008 at 17:35
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Where you're currently domiciled doesn't change your nationality. [He have to live there for 12 years before he could even apply for Swiss citizenship.]
Even where you are born isn't that crucial - is Joanna Lumley English, or an Asian?
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can't see what the problem is....most people earning his salary would do the same... it's the fault of our tax regime, not the individual(s) that sensibly take steps to minimise it
if HMG would only realise it and reduce the top rate, then some of our top earners might well stay here...and actually pay some tax
and great chunks of the middle classes would be better off as well, who lets face it shouldn't be paying tax at a higher rate at all
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Never mind the money, what about the race? And the future shape of F1 come to that.
Did anyone notice Bernie Ecclestone commenting silkily that Max Mosley's victory, and upcoming detail-suffused (one can't help hoping) invasion-of-privacy or libel case against the Screws as Private Eye calls it, wouldn't make much difference to F1?
Mr E could have hacked it with the Medicis and Henry VIII standing on his head. Makes the fine Italian hand look like a gorilla's paw. The real possibility of a separation between F1 and the FIA is in the air.
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DC was mentioned but he wasn't the first - there have been many British Sportsmen....
From what I recall DC gets very offended at being called 'British'.
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What national anthem would they have played if he had been a couple of places luckier DD?
Perhaps Monegasque hoteliers have a cheery song of their own...
:o}
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I expect he would have been lumbered with God Save the Queen, though no doubt he would prefer Flower of Scotland or Scotland the Brave, or even Auld Lang Syne.
The Scots quite understandably can't dissociate GStQ from it's ertswhile verse including the line "Rebellious Scots to crush..."
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They would have played God Save The Queen, which is the National Anthem of the United Kingdom, of which Scotland is a part of.
Are you infering that GSTQ is the British National Anthem Lud?
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The national anthem played for the winning driver and constructor is the national anthem of the motorsport authority through which the entrant made their application.
During the early 1990s Benetton made their application through the MSA so the British national anthem was played. In about 1996, at the request of their Italian owners, they switched to applying through the Italian motorsport authority so the Italian national anthem was played. Then when they were bought by Renault they applied through the French motorsport authority so the French national anthem was played.
Drivers rarely, if ever, change who they apply for their licence through but if, for example, Michael Schumacher had applied for his licence through the MSA rather than the German motorsport authority the British national anthem would have been played.
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if forexample Michael Schumacher had applied for his licence through the MSA rather than the German motorsport authority the British national anthem would have been played.
Now that would have been worth seeing!! :)
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Why didn't Brundle do the grid walk today?
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Why didn't Brundle do the grid walk today?
Death threats from non-members of the Caravan Club?
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Why didn't Hamilton get told to give back that place by his team just in case? He could take it again (probably) but the risk was anything from the lesser drive through, 10 second stop or 10 places on the grid at the next race.
He was always unlikely to get points but why risk this? McLaren and Hamilton should think about that.
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I agree- another McLaren screw up re Lewis Hamilton, IMO.
news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7468133.stm
LH "I thought I overtook reasonably fairly into turn seven,"
"Hamilton was backed by McLaren boss Ron Dennis.
"I don't think he gained a position by being off the road," said Dennis.
Ah so that explains it all. Perhaps they cannot tune in to the ITV coverage or choose to dismiss the commentators immediate suggestion that the stewards will take action.
From the reported comments above they would not even consider taking the safe option of giving back the place to Sebastian Vettel.
All a bit gung ho when the objective was to try and recover low points.
LH seems to be loosing the plot.
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A few years ago this sort of thing wouldn't even have been on the radar..
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Why didn't Hamilton get told to give back that place by his team just in case?
He shouldn't have needed to be told. He knew what he'd done better than anyone.
Edited by L'escargot on 23/06/2008 at 08:53
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Can someone please explain why the Ferrari wasn't black flagged for the loose exhaust... or was it just the colour of the car that blinded the course officials to the danger of the thing?!
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in my opinion there are too many run off areas and not enough gravel traps , especially at such a wide curcuit as magny court , im all for overtaking but i like to see it done on the tarmac , i liked it when james allen said " i hope to see you here next season" he's hoping all right!! or have the bbc drawn up the contacts already?
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Can someone please explain why the Ferrari wasn't black flagged for the loose exhaust
With the benefit of hindsight he should have had the black flag with orange circle, which means that his car may be a danger to others or himself, and that it should be inspected and rectified to the satisfaction of a steward.
In practise this would have meant ripping off the pipe from whatever was holding it to the car (some form of sensor wire or nut locking wire perhaps?) at the pit stop. Time loss would have been minimal.
Had the pipe come off, and speared through someones visor (or someone in the crowd killed) I suspect under French law someone(s) would have been arrested, including race director C.W.
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some form of sensor wire or nut locking wire perhaps?
Brundle or May said it was the Lambda sensor still holding it.
Had the pipe come off
It eventually did come off, fortunately not hitting anyone.
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Now if it had been a McLaren......
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As I understand it, the practice is for the team to ask the stewards immediately after such an event whether he needs to give the place back. Whether this happened I dont know.
Given the way that exhaust flew off the Ferrari, it was clearly dangerous as it could have come off at any time, but as ever, mud only sticks to a McLaren - maybe they should paint it red?
Clearly Lewis is feeling a little put upon though, can understand why too even with his mistakes. Do they have a steward employed just to watch him?
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As for LH giving back the place. If the stewards came back 10 minutes later and said yes he did have to... well how could he if he'd raced ahead and overtaken more drivers. He had to give the place back there and then. To me a no brainer - give up the place and overtake again legally. Madness. At least the penalty was a drive through and not a 10s stop.
An that exhaust was a danger to all and should have been removed in the pit stop. If the wire was to a lambda sensor then surely it wasn't able to sense much flying through the air and not attached to the rest of the exhaust.
Since it did fly at speed later on then I'd have liked to have seen a stewards' enquiry and a penalty for both driver and team (they should have done something). But I know it won't happen to Ferrari but any other team would have had the car brought in.
Thankfully it didn't injure anyone but it could have seeing the speed it flew through the air.
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Puzzling that the team didn't tell him to give the place back. He said afterwards he had 'taken the place' but then understeered and been pushed off the circuit and had to cut across the chicane. It looked to me at the time as if the excursion did give Hamilton the place, and it would have been safer to give it back. Pity communications weren't better between the Maclaren pit and the race organisers, because the incident cost Hamilton points although a podium didn't look possible. Is a cold moribund hand reaching out of the coffin if not the actual grave to spoil Maclaren's season, one can't help wondering?
Young Button is having an appalling time.
Edited by Lud on 23/06/2008 at 15:10
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>>Pity communications weren't better between the Maclaren pit and the race organisers,
>>
But RD did not see a problem
"I don't think he gained a position by being off the road," said Dennis.
So I think this means he had made his mind up that no futher discussion was required.
I think they should invest in someone watching AND listening to the likes of ITV / Brundle instead of thinking they are immune from sanctions.
It really is getting a habit of getting on the wrong side of the regulations and inspite of all the clever bits a bit more nous is required.
If LH does not change his present public image he will soon discover the real power of the press.
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>>With the benefit of hindsight he should have had the black flag with orange circle, which means ... Phone a friend on orange ( Ron Denis?)
Thanks for info AE. I was not aware of such a flag. If GP drivers cannot see /work out what a red light means then such a flag might mean a call to get it explained.:-)
Perhaps the stewards did get a call from other teams but then noticed the car was red .
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The loose exhaust wouldn't have been a lump of cast iron but a delicate bit of thin pipe quite possibly made from some lightweight semi-precious metal like titanium. The chances of it transfixing a driver's head were slight. After all these chaps are always running over big slabs of splintered carbon fibre at near-supersonic speeds.
I thought it was very impressive the way the thing stayed together and continued to be quick enough to maintain second place. Looked a bit like an aerial shot of Chernobyl reactor after the event.
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One of the Bentley Boys - was it Benjafield? - won or got a place at Le Mans in a car with a bent front axle some time around 1930 after a monumental pileup. Part of the tradition of motor racing that if it goes and is more or less controllable, and has a good position, it's worth having a punt for the place. It's got to be clearly dangerous before elf'n'safety can be cited and the thing black-flagged.
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Lud
Think how close to the deck these cars run at full speed; that bit of exhaust getting trapped under the plank could flip a following car into the crowd.
[Remember exactly that happening in "Grand Prix" and the '55 Le Mans disaster.]
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I don't think so Screwloose, crumple up like a bit of tinfoil. Those cars have half a ton of downforce when they're really shifting. Takes a bank or kerb or wedge of earth to launch them into the air.
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Had that exhaust been on a McLaren, it would have been pulled in, you just know it would.
Regardless of the light weight of the component, at that high speed it is still a dangerous missile - you would duck if someone threw it at you, let alone released it at high speed.
It wouldnt pass an MOT with that so why it is somehow safe on a GP circuit at 180 mph is beyond me.
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It wouldnt pass an MOT with that so why it is somehow safe on a GP circuit at 180 mph is beyond me.
There used to be notices on trees at circuits saying: Motor racing is dangerous.
If it wasn't dangerous (and incredibly expensive and difficult) we could all do it. Honestly, do people want to watch a spectacle of road-legal cars proceeding safely round a circuit?
No offence chaps, but do me a damn favour already willya?
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>>There used to be notices on trees...
..and they don't have the trees any more either!
I think the point is the inconsistency - the attention to safety is obsessive in other respects so why ignore a lump of pipe flapping about and potentially spearing a following driver when it came off? No wonder Hamilton is getting paranoid - they are out to get him ;-)
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It is indeed the inconsistancy that annoys me. Had it flown off and given a driver head injuries ( for example ), everyone would say it should never have been allowed to happen but because it didnt and it was on a red car, its OK. Its not and for the sport to have any credibility, it needs uttermost consistancy which doesnt seem the case.
Wasnt it the Red Bull car that was investigated on the CHANCE that its suspension could break more than once? Whats the chances of Ferrari having to prove their exhaust system wont keep detaching? None because its Ferrari.
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No offence chaps but do me a damn favour already willya?
Well said!
What's showing up is EGO>SKILL
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