With the exception of the VW 1.9 SDI and one or two other engines which are normally aspirated, just about any current diesel of around 2 litres will perform at least as well as a 1.6 petrol, and probably as well as a 1.8, depending on what you're doing.
That includes the 1.9 TDIs (even the old 90 & 110), PSA HDIs, Renault dCi, Ford TDCi, etc. Even the Isuzu 2.0 DTI on the Vectras is acceptable (depends on your standards though, I admit).
You'll probably find that diesels aren't as quick from a standing start if you want to race away from the lights, but will be much better at 40mph and above (ie. when overtaking) than petrols.
I'm running a Rover 600 TD (privately) - it's hardly cutting edge, but it's quick enough, and I get about 50mpg out of it, so I'm not complaining.
So on balance they're about the same; you just have to get used to lower numbers on the rev-counter - and at the pumps too :-)
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I have always hated diesels with a passion.
I still don't like their sudden death early rev limits, and clattery downside to compression ignition that can never be eradicated.
Give me a smooth spinning, high revving, petrol V6, any day.
However...
Last week, I borrowed a colleagues three month old Beemer 320d saloon, and was amazed at the wall of torque from 1000 RPM to 4000 RPM.
Outright performance is not a patch on my Vectra GSi, and the soundtrack never comes close either, but if both of us went for the same gap at 1500 RPM, in any gear, I know which would get there first. Not my petrol V6.
The downside though is that whilst I can be lazy and tootle round a mini roundabout at 500 or 600 RPM in third gear, hoof the throttle, and tinkle away quite nicely, the turbocharged Beemer is pathetic. No boost = no go, at all. Very Jeckel and Hyde. On my way back to the office, in steady town traffic, I crawled up to a large roundabout at tickover in second gear, clutch fully engaged, pressed the throttle, and... Nothing happened. At all. Only a slip of the clutch got me going, when all of a sudden I had enough torque to climb a wall!
Whilst I write about 3-series beemers, rather than turbo-d engine characteristics, how can any prestige car manufacturer produce such a cramped family car?
It's *tiny* inside, and I felt that I'd always be rubbing shoulders with front seat passengers.
The back is no better, with much less legroom than the Vectra, and insufficient headroom for me to be able to sit properly (I am 5' 10").
Also, plenty of kit, all nicely screwed together, and every electronic driving aid known to mankind, but no Ultimate Driving Machine. I thought the idea of RWD was to let the front wheels only have the job of steering, but they are completely devoid of feedback. Very wooden.
/Steve
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Even my old turbo diesel Escort produces more torque than a petrol 2.5 V6 and at half the rpm(2200 ilo. 4500)Sudden death,you don't need to rev that high-the only time I get up to those revs is in 5th. gear on autoroutes.I was driving down the A21 southbound recently when a BMW comes up behind-two kiddiwinks driving-lots of headlight flashing to get everyone out of their way-unfortuneately the Tonbridge by-pass ends in quite a steep hill.Must have been a 1.6 or a 1.8 cause my TD sails past them in 5th.
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With respect, jc, I know very well that a diesel is a relatively low revving engine requiring a different 'change up early' technique.
What I don't like is that you end up with a narrow band to work in, power band or not, and short spaced gear changes are needed when making progress.
For example, when I'm overtaking, I try not to end up with a gear change in the middle of it. With my petrol V6, unless I'm really going banzai, I will typically change up at 4000-4500RPM, and ride the wave of torque at this point. If I am overtaking though, I can hang on to nearly 7000 before the rev limiter calls time if I really want to, whether I need the power, or just want to get back on 'my' side of the road before changing up. When the limiter does cut in, it's 'soft', and I don't suddenly lose speed. In short, I have flexibility not just in engine terms, but in terms of planning how I drive.
To complete the same overtaking manoeuvre with equivalent oomph in the 320d requires at least one gear change, despite the fat torque low down.
Anyway, horses for courses.
I still much prefer a free revving V6, and an engine with soul, but accept that diesels have come on a long way if your prime consideration (Within reason, I am lucky that this comes quite some way down my choosing a car priority list) is running cost.
/Steve
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Diesel for me everytime
No contest
MG-Rover Questions? Click on www.mg-rover.org/forum
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I drive a good old normally-aspirated, XUD-engined Citroen BX at present. As you can guess, performance is not high on my list of priorities. As the saying goes, it's a case of "whatever floats your boat".
But I do know that I end up paddling with the gearstick much less, and at overtaking speeds I'm much more confident with my "wall of torque", even if it's only a couple of bricks high by current standards.
Any more metaphors I can use? Hares and tortoises, when it comes to filling up, and any anxiety if the filling stations are a litle thin on the ground is much alleviated.
David M
You know Citroens make sense in an up-and-down world......
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Hi David
I quite agree about the Diesel BX. It has no problems at motorway speeds. Though A-road overtaking can be interesting.
My sister is about to get rid of a new-ish 1.6 Astra saloon and hang onto her tatty old 1.7TD Astra estate, because the diesel is less frustrating in overtaking situations. That's not a good diesel either.
Chris
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Yes, the band is by comparison narrow, but the point is that the torque is HUGE, and it still covers the same sort of speed band.
What I like about the TD (and it has to be turbo or it's no fun at all), is that you can if you want, be fairly lazy.
On the way to work, stuck behind something big and slow? Just leave it in fifth. Chance to overtake? drop it to four and put your foot down --- from about 1500 to 3500 you get torque in spades.
A nice long three lane uphill run? A short burst in 4, slip it up to five, and there's not much that will stay with you.
Doing 85 on the motorway, need to get past something? Just put your foot down and away it goes.
So, fun when you want it. Lazy when you want it. And economical too. Superbly flexible (I'm getting carried away).
I reckon the TD does have plenty of soul, and feel that the actual revs are a side issue. My typical change up rpm is 3K, cruise at 3.2, and if pushing, let it run to 4K.
And I only have a 90 bhp ZX Volcane.
In conclusion, just as much fun. The drive is different. I prefer the Turbo D myself, and for most of the time I'm one gear higher than I would be in a petrol car.
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