I'm starting a new job soon and will be doing (~25K/year) in the commute to work covering mostly motorway miles... so I'm planning on buying a nice diesel saloon for comfort and economy...
The problem is I'm a bit undecided on what to go for. My wishlist of features are
1) as close to 60mpg on the motorway as possible
2) good noise insulation
3) an enjoyable/sporty(ish) drive
given that I have around 8k to spend here are a few options I've considered
- BMW 320d, ~65k miles, ~02 reg
I'm a bit concerned about reliability of these though, given that a lot of people have been having problems with the turbo on this model... the other concern is that I'll be putting a lot of mileage on a car that's got a fair few under its belt already
- Audi A4, ~60k miles, ~02 reg
same concerns with adding lots of miles, but also think they drive may not be as good as with the BMW?
- Saab 93, ~45k miles, ~54 reg
newer car, fewer miles, but faster depreciation and reliability problems? or were these only when the model was introduced? I like the look of the Saab but my biggest concern is with depreciation...
- VW Passat, ~40k miles, ~54 reg
fewer miles again, VAG reliability... I'm hoping it has a similar refinement (comfort & noise insulation) to the Audi but expecting it to have a less sporty drive, might even have some money left over from my 8k...
what would you go for? and why? Is there an alternative you'd recommend instead?
|
I would get the Passat. I've got a 2001 1.9 TDI 130 and it has been very good, economical, comfortable and reliable.
The other cars on your list are good cars, my son had a Saab and liked it.
|
Another vote for the Passat, especially as it would be an older-shape (B5.5) model, so probably a bit cheaper to buy. There's quite a few around.
I would recommend seeking the Sport model if you can find one, it has the higher-torque motor and a 6-speed manual box (228lb-ft vs. 210lb-ft for the 5-speed versions). This is a very effective combination ... it doesn't sound nice but it sure is punchy.
6CD changer and climate as standard on the Sport, the lowered suspension is a bit firmer but still gives an acceptable ride.
I had one for 5 years, averaged 47mpg over the life of the car and would get 50-55mpg all day long on m-ways, cruising at 85mph.
A full VW service history is reassuring and cambelt interval is 60K / 4 years.
Edited to add that Passat handling is, er, safe ... not much in the way of feedback etc but it won't let you down. And the torque of the PD motor makes it feel lively, it can make 40-60, 50-70 etc in 4th gear in around 5 seconds which is Escort Cosworth / Impreza territory.
Edited by craig-pd130 on 08/04/2008 at 17:51
|
If the Passat is a 2004 model then even in Sport trim it will wallow in corners but will be comfortable whilst cruising. I had a 1.8T Sport from 2000 to 2003. I then got a Mondeo and preferred that to my surprise.
You mention a Saab (which is based on the Vectra) so don't rule out the Vectra? If you want a car from the VAG then I'd consider a Skoda Superb or Octavia.
Reading between the lines you seem to want a "premium" badge. Don't suppose there's the option of taking a car instead? I must be amongst the few in my company that does not opt out given the chance - although I might have if my car grade went up before I ordered.
Having always paid out for my own cars before getting a company one many years ago including maintenance etc. (the allowance option came later), I don't feel the allowance is part of my salary anyway so to me the car costs about £120pm without the worries. Yes I could take a lump sum which is generous (the amount I cannot find on our Intranet) but it's taxed and after having one accident, a theft, loads of problems and being in hire cars.... it's the no hastle I like ;-)
|
If you really want 60 mpg on a motorway your choices are narrowed considerably. The only engine I know of which will achieve this with realistic performance in a biggish car is the VAG 1.9 litre PD 8 valve diesel - designated AWX or AVF. (The AVF has higher torque but this was partially a marketing "sop" and partly a means of making their lousy autos of the time look better on paper. You would be unlikely to notice the difference between these engines when fitted to vehicles of similar weights, drag and gearing. There is more sample variation between individual engines).
So, the VAG NS engined FWD stable is your choice if you need a big car, which rules out driver feedback - handling is safe - that's all. You will get a newer Passat than Audi for your money and a newer Skoda still.
Examine your bank balance and badge sensitivity and make your choice. The AWX engine in my Skoda will "only" manage a genuine (not trip computed) 60 mpg on a level motorway with no head wind with the cruise set no higher than 65 indicated mph.
659.
|
Spoil yourself buy a motorbike !
Sorry,
The SAAB would be my choice, the 320d has turbo problems at that age and mileage seems to be the around the time they go pop.
|
|
|
|
8000 would seem to buy a very new, well speced C5/407/Mondeo.
Are these cars considerably more unreliable than the 4 mentioned? Is the 1.6 HDI considered a good engine?
I'd consider the 8000 on an 6 y.o. car a lot of money. It would nearly stretch to a new shape Passat.
|
Out of that lot my money would be on the Saab every day of the week.
What about either an Accord or Mazda 6? Maybe even a 156 JTDm - or early 159 if one crops up in budget as they occasionally do.
|
|
I've recently bought a 55 reg Saab 9-3 1.9 TiD (120) and have found the fuel consumption figures very disappointing. I'm getting 43 mpg on a mix of motorway and A-roads and that's without driving particularly hard. I previously had a BMW 118d and was getting 47 mpg and that was driven a lot harder than I do with the Saab.
|
|
|
|
Out of your shortlist I'd go for the Passat, simply because you'd get a newer one than you would an A4. BMW - possible turbo problems as others have said; Saab - some are very good, some aren't.
But you could get a newer car still if you go for an Octavia. The 2.0 TDI will approach 60 mpg if you drive it at 60 mph on motorways, more like 55 mpg if you cruise at 70, and 50 mpg at 80. The Octavia has the same range of engines as the Passat, and almost as much room for people and luggage despite being based on the Golf platform...
|
|
The flip side of SAAB depreciation is that you'll get a younger car cheaper. SAAB still has a positive image and are pretty ageless on a private plate.
|
|
|
|
I have an 05 plate Saab 93 150 diesel which I have owned for just over 2 years and has just had its 54k mile service.
The only problem I have encountered is the rubbish dealer I procured it from who couldn't prepare a car to save their franchise. I have found an excellent local independent now.
Just back from a weekend in Holland and got 54.4 MPG while sitting at just over the top end of every speed limit. Since January I have an average of 49.8 MPG over 7,000 miles of mostly A and M roads.
It is quiet at cruise (but not so around town), 6 speed means 50+ without trying too hard if you are doing 30+ miles per journey which gets better the longer the journey, looks good when clean and drives sort of sporty...
On a 54 you have lost most of your depreciation so I wouldn't worry about it - if you sell in three years the lower age will hold the value up against all of the above bar the Passat.
|
thanks for the feedback! It's much appreciated...
I am a bit vain (or 'image concious') which is why I fancy a 'premium' brand... although sense might prevail if I consider how much running a car again is going to cost me...
I've got a couple of questions about the Octavia... (even though it'll dent the image I'm trying to project :)
- Is the handling any better than the 'wallowy' Passat?
- Is it as quiet/well insulated from road noise as the Passat?
I quite like the Mazda6 but the manufacturer's fuel figures suggest the diesels aren't as economical as other makes? Is the realworld difference negligble? (combined figure is 43.5 mpg whereas most other diesels quote 50+)
I think the Alfa would be cool, but I'm put off by the dodgy reliability reputation
I'll have a look out for some Passat Sports but I think I'm warming to the Saab... so you guys wouldn't worry about the build quality not being upto usual Saab standards?
|
I get more MPG out of my Mazda6 diesel 143PS than I did out of a EuroIV Mondeo TDCi130 PS...
... but beware the thread on Mazda diesel problems....
|
Mozster -- the Passat is good and refined on motorways ... however it isn't brilliant at road noise suppression on A-roads, they do thump and crash a bit over bumps / broken surfaces, although the ride is fairly good.
Engine noise is quiet on m-ways but is vocal if extended through the gears. Luckily, it's punchy enough so you very rarely need to go above 3K rpm to make swift progress.
My dad has an Octavia I and it's a bit thump / crash too, not driven an Octy II so don't know what that's like.
|
Having owned an Octavia (II) and two Passats (B5s) I feel I should comment:
>>I've got a couple of questions about the Octavia... (even though it'll dent the image >>I'm trying to project :) - Is the handling any better than the 'wallowy' Passat?
On the Octavia II, miles better, incomparable!
- Is it as quiet/well insulated from road noise as the Passat?
Not at all, it's appreciably noiser; mind you the Octavia was on 17" wheels and both Passats on 15". Octavias often come witn Dunlops or Continental tyres which are regarded as key contributors to noise. If it's a relaxing and quiet drive you favour I'd go for the Passat taking care to avoid VW main dealers. If you want to enjoy pressing on when you can and are prepared to put up with above average road noise then the Octavia (friendly dealers) is IMO a better car but then a Mondeo, Mazda, Honda is too!
|
|
|
|
On balance I would go for the Passat with your price/fuel economy criteria. Despite what the VaG bashers on this forum say, the old-shape Passat serviced reasonably well is just as reliable as anything else, I've had 2 and my dad has one and no probs.
A B6 A4 is going to cost a lot more for the age/mileage, as yiou have indicated, as will the BMW which is also a very nice diesel.
Dont touch the Saab 93SS, they are poorly made with many reliability querks and expensive servicing, although they do drive quite well.
The Passat should trounce all of the others on fuel economy I would think apart from the Audi which has the same engine.
|
|
|
|
Craig mentioned cambelt - not sure what the price on doing this is these days but it is £££s. Might be worth taking into consideration depending on how long you plan to keep the car. AFAIK all VAGs have them but not sure about GM. BMW use a chain.
|
|
Passat B5.5 cambelt service is about £400 at a main dealer, a bit less at an indie
|
As you know the 2002-2004 320d does have turbo and manifold flap issues, the plus point is no cambelt to change, its a chain.
The Passat is probably the best bet, cheapest to buy, good image, reasonably reliable, but budget for 500 quid cambelt/tensioner and possibly water pump changes every 40k miles.
How about a petrol car with a LPG conversion, try to find one already converted of course?
|
I have had a Passat 1.9 TDI 130 bhp for approx 2+ years ,done 40k miles,averages 60+ mpg on long journeys.
Problems this single breakdown 2 years back fluid leakage from clutch
Very satisfied...
Superb low speed torque and power,i have an Audi A6 , 3 litre TDI quattro with 230 bhp and the Passat in comparison to be honest in day to day use at low speeds, wouldnt say there is much of a difference in real world terms.
However if you do prefer the Passat the 130bhp is the one to go for as the 90 and 110 bhp ones are underpowered in relation to the size of the car.In addition there isnt a significant drop in mileage with the 130bhp one.
|
|
|
|
