2002, 2.0 HDI (FAP) Lights flicker, Relay clicks - swebb99_uk
Hi,

Got a intermitent problem with my car. Basically I notice that now and again the headlights quickly flicker and at the same time I hear a relay click on and off in the dash. Something in the BSI I suspect.

I also notice the following when the car is doing this:

1) The engine seems to be a little rougher.
2) If at idle increasing the revs to 1000 or above caused the relay to click.
3) At 1000 revs and above the engine hunts slightly, maybe by 25-40rpm every 2-3 seconds.
4) The rear demister doesn't click the relay when the button is pressed. (It does normally)

Everything else such as internal lights, fans and such seem fine.

I'm kind of seeing a pattern when it happens, it seems to happen every 400 miles (90% motorways) or so, based on the last 3 occurances. And seems to last 12-13 miles or so before the clicking/flickering/very slightly rough running stops.

It didn't happen when I took it to peugeot and there were no error codes !

Any idea's ?

I thought it might in some way be related to the regen of the FAP but why this would effect lights and the BSI I would have no idea.

Cheers

Steve
2002, 2.0 HDI (FAP) Lights flicker, Relay clicks - RichardW
It certainly sounds like it is associated with FAP regen. ISTR that as part of the regen procedure the car swtiches on the heated rear window and mirrors to load up the alternator and hence the engine to help get the regen going. If the car is still on it's original battery then it's possible this is getting a bit tired and whacking all that load onto it is causing the voltage to fluctuate a bit hence the symptoms. Worth getting a battery check done?
2002, 2.0 HDI (FAP) Lights flicker, Relay clicks - swebb99_uk
Thanks for the info Richard.

Does this regen stuff hold true for the early 2002/3 cars then also ? I knew that the new ones did something special.

What your saying ties in with some things I also saw. For instance one morning I noticed the rear screen demisting even though I hadn't pressed the button and the symbol on the console wasn't on. Also the relay starting clicking around the same time. I've also observed the radiator fan spinning down once or twice when turning the ignition off when the engine is still almost cold. Again I think the relay started clicking around the same time. I actually took the rear screen relay out because I thought it was the demister causing the issue to start with.

As for the battery I did a quick check at the weekend and I got 14V out of it at idle and also at around 2500rpm. Not really sure how I fully check it. It seems to turn the engine over fine.

Thanks again

Steve
2002, 2.0 HDI (FAP) Lights flicker, Relay clicks - swebb99_uk
Had a look around found a bit of info about regen for the new 1.6 HDI but nothing for the older 2002/3 2.0 HDI engines. I must admit I didn't realise they performed a regular regen.

Steve
2002, 2.0 HDI (FAP) Lights flicker, Relay clicks - Screwloose
Steve

Richard is right on the money; if this is an RHS engine code, they will regenerate [or try to] about every 500 miles. It'll commence a regen after 5 minutes over 50 - whether it'll get to finish it is a different matter.

Every 50K, you will need a new FAP, the ECU updating and the additive re-filling.
2002, 2.0 HDI (FAP) Lights flicker, Relay clicks - Armitage Shanks {p}
Screwloose - I think I heard that FAPs were available on exchange at about £150 - are you able to confirm, or deny, this? Thanks. I am coming up to that mileage ie a 4 year/48K service on a 307 110 Hdi.
2002, 2.0 HDI (FAP) Lights flicker, Relay clicks - Screwloose
AS

There isn't one FAP; like most exhaust systems, they vary model-to-model and year-by-year. [Not helped by lots of part number changes and Peugeot ones being made by a different company to Citroen.]

Most 307 ones still seem to be around £350-380 from the dealers; that is an "exchange" unit [old ones are worth around £150 - hence the spate of thefts] but there are still some oddball ones up in the £600s. I haven't found a dealer selling them at £150; but then service/exhaust work is not my line.

The original idea of washing them out fell foul of HSE and Environment Agency rules and has totally disappeared now.

Beware the flood of Asian-made cheap cats sold by non-approved sources - they are just rubbish and cause nothing but grief. Even the scrap dealers don't want non-gen cats - that tells it's own story.....
2002, 2.0 HDI (FAP) Lights flicker, Relay clicks - Armitage Shanks {p}
Screwloose - many thanks for that information. I am not due the service until late June so I will start saving the 25p a week rise I got in in my pension!
2002, 2.0 HDI (FAP) Lights flicker, Relay clicks - Screwloose
AS

Have you allowed for the extra tax incurred by the eradication of the 10% band......
2002, 2.0 HDI (FAP) Lights flicker, Relay clicks - Armitage Shanks {p}
Oh Bother, how vexing! No I haven't! Because I choose to work all my older age extra allowances are taken off me before I even start funding Mrs Speaker Martin's taxi fares!

Edited by Armitage Shanks {p} on 09/04/2008 at 20:33

2002, 2.0 HDI (FAP) Lights flicker, Relay clicks - Screwloose
before I even start funding Mrs Speaker Martin's taxi fares!


You pay THAT much in tax!!? Wow!
2002, 2.0 HDI (FAP) Lights flicker, Relay clicks - swebb99_uk
Steve
Richard is right on the money; if this is an RHS engine code they will
regenerate [or try to] about every 500 miles. It'll commence a regen after 5 minutes
over 50 - whether it'll get to finish it is a different matter.
Every 50K you will need a new FAP the ECU updating and the additive re-filling.


Thanks for that Screwloose, where on the engine is the code ?

I reset the odometer last time the clicking happened so I will have a more accurate reading on the mileage next time it starts. Its taken me ages to get this far along and slowly realise its something to do with the regen !!!

Not sure why in the past I didn't used to hear the relay clicking in the glovebox, would this possibly be related to maybe a weak battery as mentioned earlier ? If so maybe I should spend some money and just get a new battery, or is there someway of testing it. I tried using a voltmeter and it held at 14V at idle and 2500rpm.

By the way before spending money on a new FAP check this out

wbsatwestmount.blogspot.com/2007/09/diy-fix-blocke...l

Thanks again

Steve
2002, 2.0 HDI (FAP) Lights flicker, Relay clicks - Screwloose
Steve

Rightly or wrongly; the wash water is categorized as toxic waste in the EU Wastes book. I expect he just washed it into the surface water drain and it ended up in the river....

It costs a fortune to deal with these special wastes legally; so, coupled with the risk of H&S claims from their employees, no garage will even think if doing it.

The engine code is in the VIN number; RH? for a 2.0 ltr.
2002, 2.0 HDI (FAP) Lights flicker, Relay clicks - swebb99_uk
Yep thanks screwloose RH is in the vin number (RHSB) at the end infact. So I guess my next task is to get a new battery and change it. I've read about the process for changing the batteries on these things so I'll have to remember to do that as I'd rather not screw the BSI up !

Cheers

Steve

Edited by swebb99_uk on 09/04/2008 at 21:09

2002, 2.0 HDI (FAP) Lights flicker, Relay clicks - Screwloose
Steve

Once the engine is running, the battery is just a passenger. All the current/voltage issues are under the control of the electronic regulator in the alternator; or, more recently, the engine ECU.

If the battery is functional; leave it.
2002, 2.0 HDI (FAP) Lights flicker, Relay clicks - swebb99_uk
Ok thanks for that Screwloose.

What do you think the next thing I should check out then. You mentioned the regulator on the alternator, is there anyway of checking this ? Or now I am armed with some details of when the problem is occurring should I just book it back into Pug and let them check it out. Last time I took it all I could tell them was that now and again the lights flickered.

Cheers

Steve
2002, 2.0 HDI (FAP) Lights flicker, Relay clicks - Screwloose
Steve

I don't think it's a voltage problem at all. Relays can click for many reasons [that's their function after all] and if the voltage was low enough for them to drop out [9 volts-ish] then I think you'd have noticed......

Have you still got a problem - I thought that it doing a re-gen explained all?
2002, 2.0 HDI (FAP) Lights flicker, Relay clicks - swebb99_uk
Hi Screwloose,

Yep the initial problem is still there. When the relay clicks in the glovebox the main headlights flicker. As you can imagine on the motorway or even down country lanes this is a bit of an issue.

Sometimes the relay clicks say once or twice a minute when the regen is in progress (if thats whats going on) but now and again it clicks (and lights flickers) a hell of a lot, maybe 8-15 times minute.

Also when in this faze I have noticed that the engine seems to either slightly miss a beat or hunt. Actually if the car is idling and the revs is raised to say 1000rpm more often than not in this faze the relay clicks at 1000 and when it does the engine seems to hunt every 2-3 seconds and say rises or drops 20-30rpm for a fraction of a second, if it doesn't click it sits a 1000rpm fine and I hear no rev change, smooth as a nut. When on the motorway it feels like the engine isn't firing on one cylinder now and again, you only notice if sticking to same revs.

The car runs fine when the relay isn't clicking which is most of the time of course !

So obviously the car has always gone through a regen every 400-500 miles but its only in the last 4000 miles or so that I've heard the relay, had the lights flickering and finally noticed the engine missing the odd beat. Its basically as though a load is being put on the electrical system and it momentarily effects the lighting and engine.

I think thats about it.

Any idea's

Thanks

Steve


2002, 2.0 HDI (FAP) Lights flicker, Relay clicks - Screwloose
Steve

I take it that the "relay in the glovebox" is the BSI unit? [Built-in Systems Interface] That is digitally networked to nearly everything and has power control as one of it's many functions.

The BSI incorporates a mass of self-diagnosis and it may be worth getting it read. Software upgrades are available from the dealers.
2002, 2.0 HDI (FAP) Lights flicker, Relay clicks - swebb99_uk
Yep its in the BSI somewhere. Last time it was in the garage they checked for updates and there wasn't any, and also no error codes :(
2002, 2.0 HDI (FAP) Lights flicker, Relay clicks - swebb99_uk
Phoned pug dealership today and explained the full problem as I now know it, expected them to go, oh yes thats such and such. No such luck the engineer said he'd never heard of this problem before so I guess I'll need to try and get my timing right and get it in when its happening which won't be easy.
 

Ask Honest John

Value my car