Since, it's launch I've seen just two, the second one was a diesel in brown and looked really rubbish.
Is the car not selling? I have a sneaking suspicion that it isnt, at all.
Problems:
i) It's not very practical
ii) Too expensive
iii) that rear door-safety concern on UK roads.
iv) It looks like a toy, and with optional privacy glass it looks like a pocket hearse.
v) Unlike the Mini, men don't seem to like it as much as women
vi) A lot of women would probably prefer a soft-roader.
vii) Who actually wants one?
The only positive I can think of is the good emissions. But is that enough?
Edited by Sulphur Man on 26/03/2008 at 12:59
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you mave have something here ... weve had 1 traded in already .. not practical for the lady and she hated the look of it
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We bought a Clubman for a manager at work. A diesel auto with brown paint ("Hot Chocolate") as it happens! His choice, and he seems happy with it.
However, I was surprised that when we ordered it (shortly after launch) supply was easy and we got a discount.
Edited by boxsterboy on 26/03/2008 at 13:04
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I've seen just one - I was behind it at traffic lights and was thinking what's that odd looking car? The design of the rear is just all wrong; didn't even realise what it was until I saw the badge.
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Seen loads - mainly on transporters heading southbound on the A34, no doubt to the docks for export.
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I saw one in Canary Warf when these were 1st launched - what a ridiculous car
Tiny inside, expensive, and the stupid suicide door on the road side!!!!
I know there are a lot of daft people with too much money looking to buy something stylish, but you'd have to be barking to buy one of these IMHO
MVP
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I like the look of it. I think it's a handsome motor - unlike the MINI itself (which IMHO is ugly).
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Saw one at the weekend. Rear door handles look odd.
Very expensive for what it is ........
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stupid suicide door on the road side!!!!
That feature alone is enough to make it useless/insulting in this country!!
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An even more pointless car than a Volvo C30
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I would buy one secondhand at £5k.
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what's that odd looking car? The design of the rear is just all wrong; didn't even realise what it was until I saw the badge.
A funny comment I read on the Clubman rear was that it looked liked a badly disguised prototype, like you'd see in an Autocar spyshot
Edited by Sulphur Man on 26/03/2008 at 15:45
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apparently it was too expensive to put the single side door on our nearside , moving the fuel filler etc..
Basically they hadn't planned this properly and as a consequence have forsaken any meaningful sales here . £20 k and more for a clubman ? forget it !!
I think it looks nice but it's not a good package at those prices . At £15k diesel & nicely tooled - a possibility.
Hyundai and Kia are selling well equipped 3 door cars for £6 k and long warantees - writing's on the wall for any mass - produced European cars , cannot compete at those labour rates / other benefits .
I was in China earlier this month and saw locally produced Rover 75's , and other discontinued European cars - they buy the production line at knockdown rates on their terms . Rovers, old Audis and VW's , plus some Buicks . Makes me laugh how our bolshie unions thought Shanghai Automotive will still produce at Longbridge .
Edited by motorprop on 26/03/2008 at 16:17
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Makes me laugh how our bolshie unions thought Shanghai Automotive will still produce at Longbridge .
Not very nice to kick people when they are already down. I think the workforce at Longbridge were very compliant during the Pheonix period, and unlike the management they didn't pull millions out of the company. They probably thought that Shanghai Automotive might produce at Longbridge because that's what the management told them.
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Not very nice to kick people when they are already down. I think the workforce at Longbridge were very compliant during the Pheonix period and unlike the management they didn't pull millions out of the company.
Quite right qx. The bolsh had already been kicked out of them by Mrs Thatcher and they were hoping to avoid the worst.
As for the management and its rich rewards, I can't say I know much detail. But a less deserving management would be hard to imagine. If anyone should have been scrapped it was those worse-than-useless suits and their 'corporate culture', puke.
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Motorprop
The Audis and VWs you saw in China are produced locally by VW together with chinese Joint Venture partners. Same with Buicks and General Motors.
By the way, the bolshie unions in the UK, even in the 70s, are harmless compared to the unions in South Korea producing the Hyundais and Kias you so admire.
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really - I don't think so . How many examples of BL products are still on the road ? I don't think the South Korea unions are infiltrated by Communist militant tendency . Class war ?
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viii) Suzuki Swift
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Bolshie unions at longbridge?
That bent over backwards for the management that then picked their pockets and worse!
The problem with rover was not the workforce; it was the history of poor design/improvements/management that put people off buying, what was in the end, a good range of cars.
People rave over Honda and despise Rover in the same sentence! They were virtually the same cars!
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yes, Rover were good at the end , but the damage had been done 20 years or so earlier .
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People buy Minis either (like SWMBO) because they're fun to drive, or because they're cool / cute / some other such adjective. They don't need the space if they have many passengers or baggage, or (like us) have a bigger car as well.
The Clubman (silly name - Mini Traveller would have been more evocative) may be equally fun to drive but to most people's eyes it doesn't look cute: and if you need more space it won't satisfy. I agree - I don't see it selling.
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We are leasing the one I referred to in my earlier post, so if it doesn't sell and retained values fall, it will not affect us.
We are leasing it through an ex-BMW manager we know who has set up his own leasing company, and he thought it would not be as popular as the standard MINI. Looks like he is/was right.
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Of course the Clubman isn't as popular as the other versions; it was never expected to be as not everyone is prepared to spend around £21K for a fully-specced one. So what?
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Maybe they bought it out to make the BMW series one look good by comparison?
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I too think that the rear-end of the so-called 'Clubman' looks badly conceived and not right.
I worked at Longbridge as an outside contractor and can confirm that the workforce were very compliant and dedicated during the Phoenix era. The management, however seemed to just go from blunder to blunder whilst lining their pockets.
Ironically, when I first saw the Mini in the development dept at Longbridge, I thought that the rear end treatment, especially the tail lights of the saloon was a mock-up prototype. However, it turned out to be the final production 'look' which I still think looks odd.
Alan
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Seen my first one yesterday. As others have said it just does not look right.
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Took the worst part of the design in the original, the double rear doors (off the van!), and tried to make it a "design feature" - says it all, really!
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Well I rather like it, not because its pretty but because its unique and what with cars like the Auris and the Astra which are the motoring equivilent of a yawn, atleast it creates discussion - I saw an Auris today and parked next to a Kia Ceed, from behind I couldnt tell them part from 30 ft away - criminal lack of design flair.
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Have there been any truly beautiful small (Corsa/Fiesta-sized) estate cars in the last 30 years? Hmmm. Peugeot 206 SW.... Thought not... Though the Clio Grand Tour looks quite promising ....
And the constant reference to the "suicide door" - order, order! Fuel filler on the left, rear passenger door on right: that's life; it could have gone the other way. Door can't be opened unless the driver gets out and physically lets a passenger out: looks more like a safety feature from some angles, so it's down to aesthetics. Is anyone really bothered which side the fuel filler is on? Or the exhaust pipe?
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"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder", I think!
As someone brought up on the original, I find it "bloated"!
As regards other superminis, many people quote the Ka as stylish?? But has there ever been a "beautiful" supermini at all... I don't think so... stylish, practical, etc, but beautiful.. mmmm
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And the constant reference to the "suicide door" - order order! Fuel filler on the left rear passenger door on right: that's life; it could have gone the other way.
The term "suicide door" is used for any side door that's hinged at the rear - this means if another car hits the door from behind when it's open it will trap your legs if you are in the process of stepping in/out. The fact that it can only be opened once the driver's door is open won't necessarily stop this from happening.
I fail to see why BMW/MINI couldn't have given the Clubman rear doors on both sides - I can think of plenty cars the same size that have two doors on each side AND manage to squeeze in a fuel filler too!
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The term "suicide door" is used for any side door that's hinged at the rear - this means if another car hits the door from behind when it's open it will trap your legs if you are in the process of stepping in/out.
I thought it meant that if you or a passenger inadvertently opened the door at any speed the slipstream would catch the door and wrench it open, perhaps dragging the person out after it. With front-hinged doors the slipstream tends to hold them closed.
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That's where I thought it came from too, Lud. A dodgy catch on the back door of a Rover P4 could be fun.
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In very general terms I usually see estate cars as the best of all configurations. Cars are for shifting people and stuff and if you can get the same economy and driving dynamics and carry either more people or stuff then I see that as a positive result. Estate cars are not compromised by having a higher centre of gravity like MPVs, or by an excess of running gear like 4/4s and in my very personal and minority view look better too.
Sadly though, for some reason I can't explain, I just don't like the Clubman.
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In fairness and for a lot less fuss the Roomster makes a more practical car !
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Absolutely PU. The Clubman could have come back with a counter punch if it was cooler but it just isn't. ( In my opinion that is ! ) Bit of an Emperors clothes scenario I feel.
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In spades PU, and it's better looking too to a person of fairly uncluttered taste... :o}
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I saw some Clubmans (Clubmen?) on a car transporter and I can't say I that I had must-have moment! They didn't do anything for me.
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saw some Clubmans (Clubmen?)
No, Clubperson(s).
Edited by woodbines on 30/03/2008 at 03:11
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Been to a party tonight....met a friend for the first time in years. He congratulated me on the cut of my trousers (£7.50 from Sainsburys) and my Roomster (He has a brand new Mercedes of some type - the've always been a mystery to me) - I'm definitely uncluttered !
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"cut of my trousers (£7.50"
A bit expensive for a pair of pants Pugugly, I bought four pairs of jeans from Primark at £4 each the other week.
( are you buying `British`;)
Your new Roomster is a Merc too when contrasted with my set of wheels, uncluttered in my case means no back seat, wind up windows and no central locking. ;);)
Glad you like your new motor.
Regards
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The most uncluttered taste can be effectively disguised by an astute choice of footwear. Dashes can be cut in the most mundane of personal transport (or indeed trousers for that matter) if the personal accessories look the part. Only guessing, but I expect that's what swung it for you PU. Your pal might have a posh Merc but if you outshoed him he was dead in the water before he flashed his keyfob.
;-)
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I was wearing a pair of Clarks plain black shoes. A smidgen too wide for use in my old E46 (yes they are that old) - but perfect in the Roomster. The only shoes I currently use that are worth repairing when the tread has worn :-(
From a quick shoe check on him, he was wearing s pair of brown Moccasin type of shoe, available on a discount website ( a chavtastivc one).
Edited by Pugugly on 30/03/2008 at 10:44
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To tarry awhile longer in this sartorial cul-de-sac, I wonder if our esteemed leader has a view on whether a carefully chosen item of headgear can add a smidgen of aplomb or should that be elan to an otherwise less than well conceived choice of personal transport ? In other words, if wearing the the right hat and shoes, could even a Clubman cut it ?
;-)
(PU you have mail BTW)
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Moccasins and a Merc.....oh dear !
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What`s wrong with a tatty old beanie hat, jeans and a van? It must be a different county outside my part of Yorkshire ;)
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That's the beauty of a Roomie, you can wear anything from a Tophat to a Setrightesque skull cap - loads of headroom. Mind you the original MINI wasn't that short on headroom.
My hat of choice is a fleece cap (Rohan) latterly joined by a later version which is far more windproof.
Edited by Pugugly on 30/03/2008 at 12:43
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Back to OP - Paul Myles (who?) in The People rag has just recomended we all buy one, at least the cooper S version!
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I saw two of these cars yesterday for the first time, they do look odd from the rear. One had 3 not so young occupants, the person in the back looked a bit 'squeezed' in and was sat on the suicide door side, btw that suicide door looks useless, no way that I would ever be a rear seat passenger in the back of essentially a 2 door car, like to know I could get out in an emergency!
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A mate of mine has just got one to replace a One they've had for a few years. It seems well built but, except for front seat room, tiny inside and I just couldn't live with that childish dash. I was surprised he bought one as he had several quality problems with the One (leaking screens, front and back, plus other problems) but it held it's value well so a reasonable trade-in figure was achieved. Mind you, it needs to be, they seem incredibly expensive for what they are. A triumph of marketing over substance methinks.
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Have not seen even one of these and then two show up at once in the same carpark. My initial positive impression quickly gave way to the thought that it is really pig ugly. Something like those half man/half goat creatures in fables. Have these been selling in any numbers? Don't seem to have created anything like the marketing buzz of the MINI.
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Vote for pig from me - they look really awkward with all the doors and pillars, not to mention the rear passenger door being on the wrong side.
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Personally I love them.
I believe I am in a minority of one on this forum.
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I believe I am in a minority of one on this forum.
Of course you're not. It's just that the majority here haven't even driven one - far less owned one for six months.
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Saw one yesterday or so from behind. Looked like a miniature hearse or private ambulance I thought.
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Saw one yesterday or so from behind. Looked like a miniature hearse or private ambulance I thought.
According to the latest sales figures: "In the first six months of 2008 24,774 Clubman were sold; in June the figure was 4,811 vehicles. That means that every fifth MINI sold is now a Clubman".
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Funny enough, my mother went to look and test drive one last week. She had a Clubman when the original was out in the 60's and wanted to live her youth again.
She liked the car but was not happy about the rear doors. She tells me that she asked if the rear fold out doors were the only means of access to the rear. Mini Dealer stated it was.
I spoke to her the night after and asked if she thought the suicide door was OK? She did not even know the clubman had a suicide door. It appears that the dealer skirted over this question.
If this is the case, are Mini Dealers being told to remind the punter as little as often about the doors? Is this car going to around in 5 years time? Doubt it
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Saw one on the M40 today, in what appeared to be all-over non-metallic dog-poo brown with a pair of (empty) roof crossbars attached that served, if it were possible, to make the car look even worse. I cannot imagine why anyone would want such a thing; you'd have to be well past Jarvis Cocker on the scale of Let's-Act-Cool-By-Being-Knowingly-Mocking-About-The-Seventies, and even then an Allegro would be a better choice.
I think the Mini looks great; not so long ago, when my work travel patterns were different, I wondered if I might make a case for adopting a red one (with white roof, of course) into the Beest family. Nothing would possess me to consider a Clubman. Silly side door or not, it's a car supposed to sell on style, but it Just Looks Awful.
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Saw my first Clubman estate (or whatever they are called) on Sunday. To say they are pig ugly is doing porcines a great misjustice.
This post reminded me of my first ever car some 30 years ago...you guessed, a green Mini clubman estate, shortly followed by a Marina TC coupe in purple. What awful taste I had...I have never owned anything as ugly since...even my best friend with a Mini van laughed at me!
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Agree totally, WdB. Minis are great, but you have one either if you don't need the space or (as we do) you have a bigger car as well. If you want a small car with more space, you get a supermini (Jazz, Yaris etc.). The Clubman seems pointless.
Maybe it was inspired by 'retro' - if so they should have called it a Mini-Traveller, as that name caught on and is remembered fondly, whereas the Clubman name didn't and isn't.
Actually, thinking as I write, maybe the Clubman is accurate as regards retro. The original long-nosed Clubman was equally pointless, losing the charm of the original and having no more power unless you went for the 1275GT. And that was an echo - if you remember back that far - of the late 30s Austin Big Seven.
Edited by Avant on 08/07/2008 at 22:03
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The fashion industry, in all its manifestations, has played some wonderfully successful practical jokes. Some of the more obvious examples in recent years include shell suits, soft roaders, 3/4 cut off trousers, plastic clogs with holes in, leggings, hair gel, jeans which hang lower than underwear, leaving shirts hanging out, tattoos, the list goes on........ The Clubman is one of these. If enough people are told often enough, cleverly enough, that something is cool, some of them will believe it. The rest, fortunately, look on in mild bemusement.
Edited by Shoespy on 08/07/2008 at 22:21
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Shoespy, I can almost hear Geoffrey Palmer intoning your words on the intro to "Grumpy Old Men" :-)
It's shame they haven't got a toe-hold in the market as there is simply nothing else like it on the road and we all could do with a bit of quirkiness in our lives from time to time.
Of course I'd never actually want to own one......
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I had a test run in a Clubman. I could overlook the hideousness if the cause of it actually provided much useful and/or usable space - it didn't! The floor of the 'estate' bit seems to come halfway up the body, underneath (a flap) there's another area. It's narrow & awkward to access with the double-doors - which plays havoc with rearward vision in an already narrow rectangle.
I was considering one as a tax-efficient (100% FYA CT rebate & 13%(?) BIK) company car
- by the time I'd factored in some (sensible/useful & residial enhancing) options it was nearly £19K - too much for what it is in my view , even bearing in mind excellent residual values.
The engine did feel strong mid-range though (Clubman D) & reasonably refined. The standard 16inch rim size wore 175/65 tyres (IIRC), which although relatively comfortable, looked rather wimpy & undersized.
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The rest fortunately look on in mild bemusement.
As Clubman owners do to most of this thread. But don't worry about it; and I don't imagine MINI will care much either as they can't make enough to meet demand.
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But don't worry about it;
Worry ? On the contrary, it would be fruitless to worry about it. Negative sort of emotion.
No, there are many more positive things to be felt. It would seem that those who have bought them are pleased. It would also seem that BMW should be proud of their sales. Add in the amusement value to some others and you have an "everybody happy" situation. ;-)
P.S. as for the question "Why ?" Could the answer be 42 ?
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I've seen a few of these around. My response .... WHY?
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