hi all i'm looking to get some advice from anyone who can help. this is a bit of a long strange story and any help is gratefully received!
just under four years ago my dad received a sp50 (speeding ticket from a camera) when the ticket came through he admitted it, paid it and phoned the insurance to inform them.
when he called the insurance company and was passed on to the call centre the lady at the call centre said not to worry about it, they don't really recognise them (his speed was not greatly over the limit) as they're pretty much par for the course and it wouldn't affect his insurance.
his renewal has come through year on year (he's been with the same insurers for nearly 8 years - not one for hunting around for a better deal - unlike me!) they sent him new docs and took the money from the account. so everything has trundled along happily for years.
now last week he was in a bump - admitted he was in the wrong and contacted the insurance. today he has received a letter from the insurers saying he never notified them of the sp50 and therefore he renewal has doubled and they are freezing the claim till its sorted out.
if he had deliberately not informed them of the sp50 in the attempt to save pennies etc that would be one thing but he did all they asked and now they say he didn't - the big worry here is if they void his insurance on what seems to be to me the error of one of their employees not recording that he'd called to inform them?
anyone got any advice or ideas of where he should go from here? grateful of any thoughts you might have!
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 19/01/2008 at 19:17
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When tyhe renewal comes in there is a schedule that the Ins Co ask you to check. If it is wrong in anyway you have to tell them.
That said the Ins Co concerned may / may not void the claim - he is covered for the damage to the 3rd party but as for cover for his own car then that is their call.
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thanks for that, to be honest we'd be happy enough to write off his car as long as the other car was still covered and taken care of - my real worry is if they void the insurance and therefor won't pay for the other ladies car and we don't know if theres a personal injury claim in the ruunning. i can see the costs mounting up and the only way to pay by getting a loan.
thanks for your in put :)
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Without any evidence of the conversation your dad is in a difficult position. A speeding offence is a so called material fact and must be disclosed at renewal. Failure to disclose entitles the insurer to void the policy and avoid the claim even though it has no direct bearing on the claim.
The lady on the phone may have been saying that one speeding ticket would be unlikely to affect the premium at renewal which is true but it still would need to be advised at renewal. It will state this in the policy
If he has been with the same Insurer for may years best plan is to make a play on this and hope that the Insurer will that this into account. I suspect they probably will.
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Mrs P was "done" recently. I phoned her insurance for her (!) Letter in the post from them next day confirming the call. That's how it should be done. By the way Royal Sun Alliance is the insurer. The broker is one we've been with for many years and they specialise in insuring the "professions" whatever that means today !
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Mrs P was "done" recently. I phoned her insurance for her (!) Letter in the post from them next day confirming the call. That's how it should be done. By the way Royal Sun Alliance is the insurer. The broker is one we've been with for many years and they specialise in insuring the "professions" whatever that means today !
In my experience it simply means, "Those that charge more then they're worth".
TIC.......happy new year PU.
Best reg's...MD
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Well in fairness her renewal is also due and that plopped on the mat the next day or so and was quite a reasonable £450.00 - not bad for a speed merchant in a 200 bhp motor insured for class 1 Business Use.
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I had a similar issue a few years back. Got a ticket mid-way through the year, so phoned the insurance company and told them. When the renewal docs came through, the speeding offence wasn't noted, so I phoned them up about it. Insurance company said that the call mid-way through the year was info only, and that it was my duty to inform them again at renewal time. They then put up my premium!
TBH, I know this is harsh but technically I think your dad's in the wrong. He should have made sure the speeding offence was recorded. On the other hand, perhaps they may relent if he throws himself on their mercy, especially as he has been a customer for a long time. Best of luck!
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Its getting more difficult these days, we had an issue with one of the now taken over cable companies caused by some twit not recording our move, that went on for 3 years before it almost ended in court.
Following that barrell of laughs i always send them an e.mail to back up the phone call, gives you a little proof. No point in sending letters unless by recorded, and then its still not provable the contents thereof.
Just goes to show where remaining a loyal customer gets you though.
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A renewal is not simply a renewal. Its a new contract. You need to tell them about each material fact every year.
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I had this a few years back.......without boring everyone to death...i had an incident in my car (not an accident) that the other party tried to claim was an accident. I informed my insurer and instructed them not to deal with it as an accident, because it wasn't. The end result was it was an attempted fraudulent claim by the third party, which when i spoke with their (3rd party's) solicitor the matter was dropped...and there was no claim.
In the mean time my bike insurance was re-newed automatically.
Half way through the year they cancelled the bike policy forthwith, because i'd not told them about the car 'accident'. After an awful lot of shenanigans they wouldn't back down, because they said it was a claim and relevant to their risk for insuring me and despite the fact the claim never came to fruition they'd still need to know about it, even though i tried to say i'd not had an accident, so hadn't told them about one. I had to re-insure with another company, which as it happens were as good as gold when i explained everything.... and ever since no one has treated it as a cancelled policy, which i was worried about.
But, in reality, do i have anything in writing...er, no. So maybe a lesson here for all of us.
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Westpig. Did your bike insurers contact you out of the blue regarding 'the incident'?
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This got me thinking because 26 (!) years ago I received an SP30 and I don't recall telling my insurer about it ~ I may have done but I don't recall doing so.
I've checked my last renewal invitation and it says "You must let us know of any material changes which might affect your policy (including details of any convictions, fixed penalties or impending prosecutions for motor offences against anyone insured under the policy) since either the date you first took the policy out, or if later, the last renewal date."
In view of the "if later" part of the wording I think I can now safely not raise the subject of the SP30 with my insurer.
Incidentally, when I hired a car subsequent to the points on my licence having expired I was asked whether I had ever had any speeding convictions and I was honest and admitted it. (Fortunately it didn't affect the hire.) However, how does this stack up with the rule that once the points on your licence have expired you don't need to admit them to anyone? Could I have legitimately replied "No" to the hirer?
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In this day and age it's quite probably that all telephone calls made to insurance companies are recorded. If the OP has the date and time of his call it might just be possible for the call to be found.
I don't know how long they keep their recordings for, though. Four years might be pushing it a bit.
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If I'm interpreting my renewal invitation correctly, my insurer only requires declaration of offences committed since the last renewal. It would be nice to know the wording of the OP's last renewal invitation.
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Westpig. Did your bike insurers contact you out of the blue regarding 'the incident'?
Yes. Well into the bike's insurance year, which left me a bit miffed because at the time i was trying to accrue more an more clear years, for no claims bonuses purposes, so with them cancelling the policy I lost half a year. I didn't realise that informing one insurer (my car) of a fraudulent claim meant you had to inform the others (bike, wife's, classic)because it was a 'claim', even though it was spurious and I successfully fought it. You live and learn.
thinking back i wouldn't liked to have had to put in a major claim from one of the other policies. Would they have paid out?....or would they have stated 'you've failed to inform us of a claim therefore the policy is voided'.
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...... today he has received a letter from the insurers saying he never notified them of the sp50 ........
I've only just realised the implication of that, which is that the insurer found out about the sp50 from another source. How would they have got the information?
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From the DVLA database - where else ?!
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From the DVLA database - where else ?!
Being (relatively) law-abiding I'm quite ignorant of such matters! The one and only time I've as much as spoken to a police officer was 26 years ago.
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I've only just realised the implication of that which is that the insurer found out about the sp50 from another source. How would they have got the information?
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Is it not usual for an insurer to insist on a copy of one's driving licence in the event of a claim so they can check you a) have a driving licence and b) you are entitled to drive the class of vehicle involved in the incident and c) you have the same number of endorsements on your licence as you have declared to them at policy inception.
Or perhaps insurers can check with the DVLA regarding an endorsements? Not sure.
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This does really sit uncomfortably with Data Protection. But I suppose convictions are already in the public domain.
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I think its a fair use of data. A lot of people lied in the past and increase the risk to insurance companies and honest people ( I remember getting a dodgy car dealer "off" in the 80s - he had two licences one clean one and one for the points and never the twain would meet !). My Local Authority has a access to the DVLA car database as well, you'd be surprised who does.
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Just set me wondering this......... If you have attended or have been "invited" to attend a speed awareness course instead of a points / fine package. Do you need to inform your insurers ?
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You should tell them that you've had an NIP I suppose, but the course isn't a conviction.
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>> ...... today he has received a letter from the insurers saying he >> never notified them of the sp50 ........ I've only just realised the implication of that which is that the insurer found out about the sp50 from another source. How would they have got the information?
hi i perhaps should have explained this better - they didn't find out from elsewhere it was when he was reporting the accident he mentioned it, believeing it was all above board and recorded on his file somewhere because he did after all report it at the time...........
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There has been alot of debate on this recently prompted by -
"Norwich Union Insurance Limited v M Meisels and Another" a 2006 case.
The upshot appears to be that the insurance company need to demonstrate that they would not have insured if they had known about the SP50 or that the premium would have been significantly higher.
An SP50 is speeding on a motorway and is unlikely to be a Speed Camera, would also depend upon number of points, level of fine and any ban. I doubt that an SP50 at say 90mph would lead to a doubling of the premium, and suspect that there is much more to this.
Assuming that it is a single SP30 with a standard fine and no ban I doubt that the Insurance Ombudsman would find in favour of the insurance company.
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I've had 2 speeding penalties, one when with CIS (Co-op) and the other with Frizzell (Liverpool Victoria). They both said it didn't matter. Frizzell was the more recent one and the girl didn't even want me to give the details - she said they're only bothered if anyone has been banned for a single incident.
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>> An SP50 is speeding on a motorway and is unlikely to be a Speed Camera would also depend upon number of points level of fine and any ban. I doubt that an SP50 at say 90mph would lead to a doubling of the premium and suspect that there is much more to this. Assuming that it is a single SP30 with a standard fine and no ban I doubt that the Insurance Ombudsman would find in favour of the insurance company.
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hi there, i can tell you that yes it was on the motorway and was by a fixed speed camera - don't know if your familiar with the outskirts of Edinburgh? - there was no ban, not sure of the points and fine. there is no more to this dispite your suspicions. perhaps i have the code wrong?
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SP50 sounds right for speeding on motorway.
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