My best Christmas present this tear was a TomTom One, from my wife. I've used it for a few journeys, and I'm impressed.
I wondered if any Backroomer has tried it out in the air? I glide, and it would be useful to be able to set the airfield as 'home' in case I got lost(easy to do with low sun and haze) Theoretically, I can't see why it shouldn't work.
P.
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 05/01/2008 at 18:49
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You might have to fly directly over roads for directions ;)
My car based one was lost as soon as you left the road maps
Edited by oilrag on 05/01/2008 at 15:55
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Don't see any reason why it shouldn't work, since you can set it to point an arrow towards your destination. As someone else has said though - don't expect it to be that accurate since it'll try to follow roads.
Why not spend £50 and get a proper GPS unit specifically designed for point-to-point navigation cross country?
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The RAF do that. And use lamps on tall chimneys as aiming points:)
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I tried my TT720 on a train a few days ago and it did NOT like it! It could not understand what was going on and kept jumping left or right onto the nearest road! Once I was in an area where there were no roads close to the line, it plotted where it was accurately; put it near a road and it will jump to that. This was with no route planned BTW - just asking it where I was. See oilrag's earlier comment.
Edited by Armitage Shanks {p} on 05/01/2008 at 19:50
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The problem with portable in-car sat nav units is they will assume you have to be on a road. The counteract poor signals they therefore use a snap to road feature these days - well you must be on the nearest road and not in the field.
I did use TomTom on an airline once and it did sort of update as we flew across the Alps but of course it would try to "snap to a road" if it could.
What I do have on a PDA with a Bluetooth GPS is MemoryMap. This is much more like what you need. And I think you can get aircraft and marine maps as it came with some demo ones on the disk. But the OS Maps might do just as well for you. In fact until last week it was either my pda or Symbian mobile phone with a GPS receiver I used for satnav... but now have the TT Go 720 as well.
But take a look at:
www.memory-map.co.uk/maps_uk_intheair.htm
Also works on the RoadAngel Adventurer 7000. You can plan routes on the PC and transfer so could follow the route as well. I like Memory Map for walking.
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Do you think certain departments may get a little jumpy if a car Sat Nav were able to
be set to navigate to a precise destination in an private aircraft?
Does anyone remember the cruise missiles following roads (Sat Nav?) in the Baghdad air strikes? I think I can remember one turning left at a crossroads.
Presumably `perform a U turn`would not be in the menu options.....
Edited by oilrag on 05/01/2008 at 20:55
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Using an in car sat nav couldn't really guide an aircraft as it is based on vector maps. Something like MemoryMap could be used to tell you which direction to go and allow you to follow way points - so could guide something.
I remember the cruise missiles turning like you. That was back when GPS receivers expensive and so the cruise missiles actually followed flight plans and looked for land marks using cameras. So they would turn at cross-roads because they'd seen a landmark. They are now GPS based.
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I did use TomTom on an airline once and it did sort of update as we flew across the Alps but of course it would try to "snap to a road" if it could.
Is that OK on an Airline then??
MD
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Why would it not be OK on a plane? Who would care? It's only a receiver, not a transmitter.
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How do you suppose the aircraft themselves navigate around the place? They usually have a triple intertial system but they have GPS as well and they continually compare the results/data and see which is the best of the 4 sources available. GPs is a receiver only.
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You can use PDAs and laptops on an airline. Bluetooth okay as far as I know. And GPS receiver is a receiver and not a transmitter - apart from Bluetooth connection to the PDA. So why not?
There was no phone technology in use.
But the real reason for not using mobile phones on planes has more to do with what effect it has on base stations - you usually use the nearest and it a plane you'd see lots. And not seeing a base station ups the power of a phone to try to find one.
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But the real reason for not using mobile phones on planes has more to do with what effect it has on base stations - you usually use the nearest and it a plane you'd see lots. And not seeing a base station ups the power of a phone to try to find one.
It used to be the case (10yrs ago)that if the network sees you try to connect to non adjacent base stations at the same time it can jump to the conclusion that you have cloned the SIMcard. The operator will then bar all access to the network. Somebody can no doubt indicate whether that still applies.
The proposed method for in aircraft airline use I believe will involve a onboard 'microcell' that allows the phone to operate at minimum transmit power level and allow the airline operator to make a profit by charging super expensive roaming rates. Watch this space for Ryanairs rates!
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I thought it was an issue knowing which is closer. But yes picocells (we have some for black spots in our buildings at work) are the answer. And they will charge a fortune.
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Surely every day lots of passengers on aircraft have mobile phones turned on. Whether deliberatly or accidentally, but the same effect.
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re the post some way above about memorymap - it does indeed have both aeronautical and marine charts available.
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Yes, sat-navs work perfectly well on planes, but a TomTom will, I reckon, struggle as it tries to keep you following a road - as has been mentioned.
My hand held Garmin Etrex works very well. That's got European basemapping but doesn't try to lock you onto a road. I tried it flying home from Poland and held vertically against the window it got sufficient signal and seeing 500 miles/hr on the display was a first. You need to be in the window seat and I believe doing this can cause problems if other passengers or crew think you're using a mobile, but no-one commented to me.
JS
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Yes, I've done the same with an Etrex, and it is rather fun. Flight attendant knew what I was doing, and had obviously seen someone doing it before: Only asked me to switch it off when we were on final approach. I was able to tell person sitting next to me what towns we were flying over at the time, and it was interesting to see what route we took from Nimes to Liverpool.
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Tim{P}
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Sorry, just had another thought; our Garmin Nuvi has a "pedestrian" mode. With the exception of the machine being confused as to how fast the pedestrian was travelling, I wonder how that would work in the air? Anyone tried? We're off to France in Feb: maybe I'll give it a go!
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Tim{P}
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I tried it flying home from Poland and held vertically against the window it got sufficient signal and seeing 500 miles/hr on the display was a first. You need to be in the window seat and I believe doing this can cause problems if other passengers or crew think you're using a mobile
>>
On flights I sometimes play with my Garmin Etrex GPS - designed for walking navigation - and I find I can stick it under the blind at the top of the window, so no one sees what you are doing.
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I often have my walking GPS with me when travelling. It's a Garmin 76csx which has a compass and a barometric altimeter. The latter is quite useless in a pressurised aircraft of course, except to confirm that the cabin is usually pressurised to about 6000 feet.
I don't have any European maps for it, other than the built in base map, big roads and towns only, but I do have the Garmin "Topo GB" map which is about Landranger level of detail, including contours, most public foortpaths. You can use the map on a PC to set up routes and download them, but it's not quite up to planning walks just from the map - not quite as good in my opinion as the Memory Map ones but considerably cheaper at £120 for the whole of the UK. However it is very helpful for following walks on the ground.
Unlike pure road navigation devices like the Tom Tom it can be set to "follow road" or not - not means a straight line, and it will tell you your proper location rather than snapping to the nearest road.
I have a pal who uses this model for hot air ballooning (although he has some more specialist instruments as well, certainly for altitude).
You can as has been said get a basic handheld non-mapping GPS for £50 or so. Accuracy is not a problem. As you spend more you get mapping, sensors (compass, barometer) and colour screens, beyond that you are getting into more professional or specialist devices dedicated to flying or sailing.
Whilst it's obviously not essential to have one of these when going for a walk in the UK (Wainwright managed without) it does make it easier and adds some interest and reassurance that you know exactly where you are. TBH I'd have imagined that a handheld GPS was now de rigeur for amateur pilots of any type of craft for that reason alone.
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Reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Bart is playing with a Gameboy on a plane. Stewardess approaches and asks him to turn it off, at which point the plane starts to plummet from the sky.
"TURN IT ON! TURN IT ON!!"
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My Garmin definitely does not work in the air. I switched it on over the midwest just before Christmas, and it could not lock on to any satellites, even if I held it up to the plane window.
I don't know if this was just because the plane acted as a faraday cage or if there is some technical reason to do with the angle of the satellites or something.
If the former, you should be ok in a glider.
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My Garmin definitely does not work in the air.
Mine can take a while at 500mph especially if the last known position was several hundred miles away. Once locked on, mine will usually stay that way in my shirt pocket or on my lap if I am in a window seat.
Edited by Manatee on 07/01/2008 at 07:33
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My Garmin definitely does not work in the air. ....... even if I held it up to the plane window. >>
Don't some aircraft have window glazing which prevents transmission of GPS signals?
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