The roads have been VERY slippery lately.
Yesterday morning I dropped my wife at work. On the way back home I was tailgated VERY closely by a large Mitsubishi 4x4 (I don't know the model, its the one with an extended back and tinted windows, 57 plated).
I was driving past a long section of roadworks with a 30mph limit (I was doing a little more) and the 4x4 was nearly on my back seat.
We came up to a large roundabout near my home and 'slippery road' warning signs were in place, along with another '30mph' sign. There was some obvious mud and debris on the road carried along from the earlier roadworks.
The road opened up to two lanes just before the roundabout and the 4x4 pulled out and booted past me. He went onto the roundabout, turned and immediately lost it. The vehicle went sideways, then off the roundabout and hit a lampost which was then knocked over at 45 degrees.
I stopped and fortunately the guy was OK if a little dazed, but the front of his vehicle was quite badly damaged.
A totally unnecessary acident caused by not reading the road signs and/or overconfidence.
Full marks to whoever looks after the lamposts. I went out an hour later and there was already a repair crew nearly finished chopping the old one down.
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Crash Winter Driving Course 'fee' for the Mitsu driver: loss of NCD (if any), crummy loan car (if he's lucky) & no black tinted '57 macho-mobile reg to show off in to mates till (probably) February at least.
Justice prevails!
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>A totally unnecessary acident caused by not reading the road signs and/or overconfidence.
Should read in my opinion,
A totally unnecessary acident caused by an idiot who has no idea how to drive let alone a 4x4.
>Full marks to whoever looks after the lamposts. I went out an hour later and there was >already a repair crew nearly finished chopping the old one down.
That will be £5 grand bill to you thank you Mr idiot 4x4 driver -
------
< Ulla>
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Possibly drunk or under other influences.
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Probably thought extra traction of 4x4 will save his day ;)
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This weather does seem to unfailingly help identify those who have been unfortunate in Darwinian lottery. Early warning clues can be gleaned from their choice of vehicle and their manner of operating it though. ;-)
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This is something that has been on my mind recently, but more by way of driving psychology for the "victim" of these people. I spend much more time at home now and live in an outer urban area where there are lots of speed cameras in mostly 30 & 40 limits. I use my speed limiter all the time and stick rigidly to the limits imposed.
I find that I feel uncomfortable being the lead car.... sticking to the limit...with nothing else in front of me, with a tailgater and a number of other vehicles obviously in a hurry behind me. When I am overtaken, I am looked at as though I am the pink fluffy dice child of Adolph Hitler or, even worse, a caravaner!
Why should I feel uncomfortable whilst sticking to the limit or even driving in accordance with the conditions at the time? Does anyone else feel the same?
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 19/12/2007 at 12:57
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Comment for Tack - I used to feel the same way as you when lead vehicle, but I guess that I am a bit more rebellious in that I refused to put myself at risk of either points or damage. { If you want the points then go for it !! } Now that I am a greyhaired pensioner, most looks { which I pointedly ignore } are just shrugs of "What can you expect ?" until they find that I can safely drive at the max speed limit too. I rarely speed to camera-trip level now, as I have an aversion to involuntary donations to the Government.
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>Full marks to whoever looks after the lamposts. I went out an hour later and there was >already a repair crew nearly finished chopping the old one down.
That will be £5 grand bill to you thank you Mr idiot 4x4 driver -
I was surprised how cheap lamp standards are! IIRC 6 years ago a big one on the A1 was less than a grand, and that included temporarily closing the A1 at 02.00 to remove the old one and replacing in the next few days. But I suppose H&S costs have escalated - a full assessment b4 even starting the job.
--
pmh (was peter)
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At least he didn't hurt anyone else.
I got overtaken on a blind bend on an icy road yesterday morning, in the dark , with cyclists and even the odd pedestrian around.
Some people just want to drive "on the limit" and don't think anything can go wrong and what the consequences might be.
Not sure what to do about it, although having congested roads and a stressed up, overworked population with more and more broken families must be a factor.
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I stopped and fortunately the guy was OK if a little dazed
You are to be congratulated on having the tact not to say "Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah." I'm sure it wouldn't have helped. But it might have been tempting.
Anyway, hopefully he is slightly the wiser now. Much of what I have learned has been through my mistakes.
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Many 4x4 numpties think that becuase it's a 4x4 it will also stop quicker than normal cars when conditions are bad.
Unfortnately they fail to understand that all cars have 4x4 braking.
A friend of SWMBO had a 4x4 and skidded into a curb in the snow. Her response was "I didn't think 4x4s skidded on snow"
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I wonder how useful ABS is when you're going sideways. Or backwards even.
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I wonder how useful ABS is when you're going sideways. Or backwards even.
Thats when you press the AFU button isn't it ? ;-)
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yeah don't you just love them.
I remember a time, years back, coming from Bristol to Weybridge, along the M4, where it had been constant but light snow -the traffic was flowing freely at reasonable speeds, 50-60, but at good distances. Only the 3rd lane had any major settled snow/slush/rocks
A C.O.D(crazy overconfident driver) came down the slip road, near Reading, in a lovely new BMW, inside lane to central reservation within 300 yards of joinging , we all went around this crumpled heap and carried on our merry way thinking "WHAT A PRATT"
Safe driving fellow BR'S- still no really icy morning's so far-down south
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If he had done all that to me and gone off i would have phoned the rozzers and made them breathalise him,that way his poor driving will be on record
What is it with these 30 year old men and basically pimped up transits with their phones to their ears permanently
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The roads were like glass round here early this morning. This is fine as long as you allow for it. I was making a special effort to drive smoothly although not especially slowly in due respect to the conditions. Rear view miirror filled up with the classic recipe of young female in small hatchback on hand held phone. So close, that I could not see her headlights ( boom boom ! ). Anyway, as I backed off for some impending traffic lights she hit the brakes and I could see that her car was in the early stages of a skid. Thankfully it did not connect with mine as I still had time and space to gently accelerate out of trouble. I then assumed , wrongly, that she would have got the measure of the road conditions. No chance, as soon as the lights changed there she was, trying to inspect the underside of my back bumper. Is it me or are some people seriously lacking in foresight ?
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I am impressed you managed not to give the guy a round of applause ;-) 57 reg would probably suggest it is fairly new to him and could have been forgiven for being a little over confident. Considering all the ads for the mitsubishi double cab show it going up and down daft slopes and in inclement weather without any drama you can forgive a new owner for thinking it will just cope with slippery conditions.
What speed was he doing when he lost it?
teabelly
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Will the council not claim from Mr 4x4 for its redesigned lampost?
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The problem is people have forgotten how to drive, they just get in the car and press the pedals whilst turning the wheel - the actual art of driving is practiced by very few people now.
Hence, when it gets a bit icy or wet they all still drive the same assuming all the added extras in their cars will save them - when in fact all the added extras do is give less feedback, so instead of getting to 70% grip and then start to feel things going and still having 30% to play with they now get no warning till 99% of grip is lost and the remaining 1% goes very quick and they end up heading for the nearest ditch/lamp post.
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Similar thing happened a few years back in my part of the world. A 4x4 on a wet road, took a bend a bit too quick, lost it and hit my mate who was coming the opposite way in a Clio. Killed him. The driver's defence was that he was new to the vehicle and unfamiliar with its handling......
Unfortunately, despite what ANYONE tells you, the higher CoG, consequent greater weight transfer and tyre design typical of 4x4's means that they do not handle and grip as well as the average passenger car. Once a 4x4 starts to get 'out of shape' it becomes a real handful to get back - they are not forgiving of mistakes. A lot of people get caught out this way. Its made all the worse by the slightly 'remote from the road' feeling you get when driving one (c.f. a good passenger car). I really dislike driving them. Possibly one of the worst was the old Frontera - those things had lethal handling and very modest reserves of grip - I really find them frightening to drive.
I sypathise with the tailgating problem as well. I live in a rural area with a higher than average density of 'green welly' types who drive Range Rovers and Disco's, etc. They are mostly of the view that 'might is right'. I'm generally a very very calm and 'forgiving' driver and accept that people make the odd mistake, but constantly being 'driven at' and tailgated by 4x4's gets very wearing. One evening last week I drove into our village (me doing a bit over 30 in a 30mph limit) with a Range Rover sat about 1" behind me and headlamps glaring through the back screen. Had my youngest daughter in the back and one of her friends, it was very unnerving, I hardly dare touch the brake. One day someone will do this and I will snap...
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I notice since driving my wife's Ford Ka most of the time now that I seem to get tailgated more often by SUVs than when I had my BMW. Why is this? A couple of times I've really thought the Q7 (flavour of the month in Munich currently it would appear) behind me was going to try and drive over the top of me.
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This is the great thing about 4x4s. I had a Jeep Grand Cherokee as a hire car in Germany a couple of years back, fitted with beefy winter tyres. As luck would have it we were struck by a monster snow fall and I found I could drive this thing with impunity despite the attrocious conditions, due to lots of traction and a commanding driving position. I guess you could say I drove in a way befitting the driver of a large SUV (yes, it also had blacked out side windows). However, the first time I had to use the brakes in a serious fashion I discovered that 4 wheel drive does not make the slightest difference to braking ability, that ABS won't work on a sheet of ice, and that a 2 ton vehicle at 60km/h carries a lot of momentum. I was very lucky not to end up in a ditch as I slithered to a halt at the side of the road some considerable distance from where I had wanted to stop. As someone once said in a bad scottish accent, "ye can'nae change the laws of physics".
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Give 4x4 drivers a 1988 Fiat Pqnda to drive - and that only - and they will learn to drive carefullly or die.
4x4s are worthless in snow in towns.
They get stuck - behind other cars which are stuck.
madf
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Everyone should learn to drive in both a Morris Minor and an old mini, both fitted with crossplies, to learn about vehicle control. At least with these old cars the excitement started at low speeds.
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Spot on nick. In the crossply days quite a lot of drivers used to indulge in stylish drifts in the wet, even in traffic. You didn't have to be going fast and some people were really artistic with it.
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Everyone should learn to drive in both a Morris Minor and an old mini both fitted with crossplies to learn about vehicle control. At least with these old cars the excitement started at low speeds.
Or a 3.0 V6 Capri, ......dual purpose.........that taught me quite a bit about car control and bodily function control in the winter of '70 something ! ;-) I think insurance cost was a bit less steamy then though.
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Yes, insurance used to be relatively cheap. My first car was Triumph Herald convertible back in 1974, bought for £125, kept on the road in Hillingdon, West London; me - 17, new licence but tpft was just £35, so approx. 25% of the car value.
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My first car was Triumph Herald convertible
Another good sideways car...
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Everyone should learn to drive in ...... a Morris Minor .........
......... with no direction indicators. Then they'd learn to signal only when it was necessary and of real value to other road users, instead of the thoughtless signalling that you get these days with flashing indicators.
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>>........ with no direction indicators.
What using hand signals you mean? Not sure it was better to take one hand off the steering wheel in the 'good old days' though.... Also, left turns were always a problem - unless you had very, very long arms (or better still asymetric arms - the left being a metre (or was, yard) longer!
I quite like 'thoughtless signalling' - when it becomes thoughtless (or habitual) you've more time to concentrate on subsequent observation & road positioning. The extra thinking time involved in 'shall I indicate or not' is subtracted from the manoeuvre time - I'm sure it also morphs into 'I can't be bothered signalling' for many, present company excepted of course!
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Is it me or is anyone else thinking that the 4X4 guy in the OP got all he deserved and gets no sympathy.
I am not a regular driver as in I do not do it for a living although I do drive to and from work etc. My experience of overconfidence in drivers is when I drive with someone that does do it for a living - they are shocking sometimes and I think it is complacency because they are driving 8 hrs a day.
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