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As long as tanker movements aren't interferred with, fine. Otherwise, a taser in the nuts or a truncheon on the bonce! :-)
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If I want to make my opinions known about fuel duty I'm quite capable of doing so. What I don't want is some jumped up 10 watt bulb for a brain deciding that he will inflict his ill-thought out views on how I go about my daily business at a time and place of his choosing.
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As we need a futile gesture, I've decided to boycott buying any petrol on Christmas Day.
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Blockade parliament --> not allowed any more (Banned a couple of years ago after people protested about the Iraq war).
If I want to make my opinions known about fuel duty I'm quite capable of doing so --> So how would you make your voice heard?
I'm not condoning the fuel protesters, but the ability of anyone to protest about government policy is much reduced.
MCN and others have been campaigning to have secure diesel filler caps, so there is less diesel sloshing out onto roundabouts (a major, major problem for bikers). Progress so far using legal and lobbying means - limited.
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Do a Google search for David Handley, who is one of the leading lights of this protest. One of the top results is a ( unfortunately broken) link praising him. The address it should link to?
The BNP website. 'Nuff said as far as I'm concerned.
Edited by lordwoody on 11/12/2007 at 12:01
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If fuel prices (for private motorists) were reduced, more people would be using more cars more of the time. Then the roads would be more congested. I know there are all sorts of exotic cliques among petrolheads but gridlock enthusiasts I've yet to come across!! "Cor, anyone else comin' up the M25 to check out the 7 mile tailback from the M11?"
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If fuel prices (for private motorists) were reduced more people would be using more cars more of the time.
Is that even possible? I think it would mean having a couple of spares that people could just leave ticking over 24/7.
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I read that this time the protesters were arguing for preferential rates for hauliers and farmers rather than across the board duty reductions.
That's the way to get Joe Public on side. Not.
Cheers
DP
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04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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I read that this time the protesters were arguing for preferential rates for hauliers and farmers rather than across the board duty reductions.
Why don't they just put up their prices like every other business when faced with rising input costs? If that makes them uncompetative, they go bust. Ever was so.
Edited by nick on 11/12/2007 at 18:37
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Because it's already slightly cheaper for European hauliers to fill up with much cheaper diesel, drive over here, do the work and drive back. Should this be allowed? A corner shop can't similarly get their cigarettes from Gibraltar. Maybe there should be an EU-wide fuel duty rate, it would certainly make ours cheaper.
>> I read that this time the protesters were arguing for preferential rates for hauliers andfarmers rather than across the board duty reductions.
Why don't they just put up their prices like every other business when faced with rising input costs? If that makes them uncompetative, they go bust. Ever was so.
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Because it's already slightly cheaper for European hauliers to fill up with much cheaper diesel drive over here do the work and drive back.
This is very true. In that case, why isn't it cost effective for our hauliers to go sur le continent with a nearly dry tank, do some work over there and then come back with a full tank? I can't believe many french hauliers come all the way here and compete for business just because french diesel is cheaper. The cost of setting up and running a business in france is higher than here, learn the lingo and beat them at their own game!
A little flippant, and I do have sympathy for anyone trying to run a business with increasing cost pressures, but the cost of using fossil fuels is only going one way and we'll have to adapt or go under because someone else does it better. Rising fuel costs affect all businesses directly or indirectly, I don't think special cases should be made for anyone especially if the 'answer' is a subsidy from the taxpayer. If there are imbalances in the EU tax regime then that is a different kettle of fish.
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QUICK! EVERYONE PANIC BUY!
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No no, it's ok, I haven't got a long journey to do for another week and if i cycle to work for at least 3 times in the intervening period then the half tank I have left from filling up 3 weeks ago will suffice for said journey.
I can then siphon some out of the Tr7 (an MoT will be more relevant to it than some petrol) if things get desperate.
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I will never understand the general attitude on this forum. When, if ever, do you think civil disobedience is justified? - it sounds like it's when it doesn't inconvenience you.
Or do you just want to roll over and keep on paying an ever increasing tax burden on your fuel?
.... and don't say vote them out at the next ballot - you know who ever is in next will do the same.
(sits back and waits for c(small c)onservative majority on here to vent their wrath)
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Everybody drive within speed limits
Marginal increase in journey times, minimal inconvenience, reduction in fuel consumption will lead to drop in price, safety camera industry decimated
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When if ever do youthink civil disobedience is justified?
Not over a few pence on fuel, that's for sure. Hardly the end of the world.
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I'm not convinced that higher prices make much if any difference to the amount of fuel used. Who thinks 'I won't drive to the supermarket today cos it's expensive'. Or, 'let's not go to Cardiff (from London) to see the Rugger'. Nonsense; it's just a tax.
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a few pence on fuel that's for sure. Hardly the end of the world.
Italy is, apparently, at a standstill due to fuel price protesters.
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And petrol in Luxembourg and Switzerland is about 75p per litre.
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Not quite, MM.
For unleaded:
Luxembourg is 1.131 euros = 81p/litre
Switzerland is 1.75 chf = 76p/litre
For diesel:
Luxembourg is .97 euros = 70p/litre
Switzerland is 1.82 chf = 79p/litre
Source: www.aaroadwatch.ie/eupetrolprices
I hope I have got my conversions right!
Presumably the differences between countries and between fuels is all down to tax levels.
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And its cheaper in germany and france than it is here too.
A good reason why the tax is unfair on all (including business) over here. An Eu wide agreed tax level is correct imo.
But don't worry. With the normal head in the sand (I'm all right jack so it doesn't matter) attitude that is shown on this site then we just have to put up with dearer fuel, which makes everything else dearer too and costs our jobs.
But the working man doesnt matter as long as we can all afford our petrol hey?
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Ok, yorkiebar, you can pay french levels of fuel tax but you also have to pay french income tax, vat and the myriad other taxes that are higher than here.
Surely anyone who earns a salary is a 'working man' or is that good old-fashioned class envy coming to the fore?
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Yorkie, surely if we go with a EU wide tax then we would need to do the same with every other form of taxation or the problem would just move?
I am a working man, I am affected, thats why I will try and use my car less and take public transport when I can.
But if govt needs x in tax, I would prefer if if they took it off the ones who will fill their cars etc no matter what the price, rather than reducing the tax and say, imposing a tax on something else to make up for it.
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2007 Seat Altea XL 2.0 TDI (140) Stylance
2005 Skoda Fabia vrS
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Just to put the record straight. I am a working man too, doing quite all right thank you. But i rely on motorists for my living.
And french taxation and living costs etc. Ok. if you compare equivalent to equivalent in germany, france, and more you will agree that they have a better standard of living than the same over here?
Are we in the EU or not? Why shouldn't all taxation be the same?
Come to that, why shouldn't our products be in Euro's, then you would understand some more direct comparisons too.
For all those who think they still live in Great Britain, it may be time to realise it is now just Britain ??
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And its cheaper in Germany and france than it is here too.
I beg to differ not for petrol diesel maybe but it is recovered in much higher yearly road tax you need to do 30000kms a year in germany to break even between petrol and diesel.
,If you take the average wage in the UK it is higher than Germany so in reality Germans pay even more,Poland is cheaper as so is thw Czech republic put to the average citizen its like us paying £2 a litre.Its a diminishing commodity and everybody wants its if they took all the tax off it would go on something else like the fact there is vat on food in Germany France.Italy and Holland domestic electricity is far dearer in Germany than the UK.
If you look at the link you see the petrol prices in germany with an exchange rate of 134 its dearer.
tinyurl.com/2gwyvr
link shrunk to fit screen.
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 14/12/2007 at 16:02
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Whatever price fuel is set at, one thing for sure is that it will always now be expensive for all sorts of market driven and fiscal reasons.
It could be argued that we all have a duty to our wallets to try to use less fuel and most would agree also to the environment.
However, the reality is that for many there is no realistic alternative but to use personal transport.
I would like to see some real proactivity on the part of the government. Forget the "loose change" RFL benefits of smaller engined or lower emitting cars. I would like to see a radical approach to encouraging the use of fuel efficient vehicles such as, say removing VAT on vehicles which can averagely achieve 45 mpg or more.
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But if govt needs x in tax I would prefer if if they took it off the ones who will fill their cars etc no matter what the price rather than reducing the tax and say imposing a tax on something else to make up for it.
That's the problem though isn't it?
Gov needs X but actually rakes in Y and wasting Z, with I fear Z being an unimaginably huge figure.
The average person on an average wage is finding things harder and harder.
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Quote
An Eu wide agreed tax level is correct imo.
Absolutely. No silly duties on the means of burning the fuel, but an appropriate amount on the fuel. Some hauliers may squeak but a level playing field for all will get rid of a lot of the problems as it should be costlier to trunk way from home.
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Well done, sliding pillar. Nice to see someone reading and understanding, rather than just disagreeing without thinking.
To AB, you have lived elsewhere in Europe and decided where the better standard of living is or are you just happy to quote figures? The UK wage packet has to be higher, just to pay for housing costs.
But free money to spend in your pocket? Britain or Europe? Hmm, tough one ! (Not!)
Fuel is a commodity that is running out, it has to be taxed and preserved too. But fairly ?
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Well done sliding pillar. Nice to see someone reading and understanding rather than just disagreeing without thinking.
Condescending? Moi? ;-)
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Equal fuel tax without equal RFL is a waste of time (just think about it).
I think if you got equal fuel duty, you might object to 4-6 % stamp duty on all house sales.
madf
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Currently, we don't have a Federal Europe, that's a seperate argument - when/if we do then all taxes/benefits will be uniform - until then we should only be concerned about the UK system.
Our "masters in Brussels" might not approve, but a simple levy of £500 each time an HGV arrives in the UK, redeemable at any UK filling station for fuel, would eliminate UK truckers difficulties.
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I know there are all sorts of exotic cliques among petrolheads but gridlock enthusiasts I've yet to come across!! "Cor anyone else comin' up the M25 to check out the 7 mile tailback from the M11?"
"Harry and Janet Nodule".
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Lordwoody, Your "Nuff said" comment needs expanding.
You say the link is broken so I assume you haven't read it. The link works for me and it's a bland article supporting Handley's bid to lead the National Farmers Union.
What conclusions do you think we are supposed to draw from the BNP praising David Handley?
For example Britain's chief rabbi Sir Jonathan Sacks wrote a book called "The Home We Build Together: Recreating Society" which was praised by Nick Griffin, according to an article I read in The Times. So would you like to draw ugly conclusions from that too?
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I'm travelling a couple of hundred miles tomorrow as I have very sick relatives. I wont be happy if I get gridlocked because of this sort of action - guess I won't be the only one. Government won't care less, who does it hurt ? Joe Public who have no choice in the matter. Rant over.
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 14/12/2007 at 16:12
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I am slightly puzzled as to how it is that a group of people who are taxed to the bone and at risk of going broke can afford the time and money to drive around clogging up the roads and annoying the 99.9% of us who have also got livings to earn and don't want to be held while proceeding on our lawful business. Selfish and futile and will achieve nothing.
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I am slightly puzzled as to how it is that a group of people who are taxed to the bone and at risk of going broke can afford the time and money to drive around clogging up the roads and annoying the 99.9% of us who have also got livings to earn and don't want to be held while proceeding on our lawful business. Selfish and futile and will achieve nothing.
Their alternative is to park their vehicles up altogether; unfortunately that just offers a golden opportunity for all the foreign hauliers to do the work for them, and furthermore British truckers don't have united front of their French counterparts. The fuel protest, although IMHO misguided, at least provides the media with some footage for the news and the protesters the publicity they do need.
I say misguided because I seriously believe that there is a more effective way, which happens to be perfectly legal. All it needs is for EVERY truck in the UK to rigidly observe the speed limits; if any of you have ever followed one of Tesco's artics you'll be familiar with the fact that this is 40 mph on single carriageways.
Britain would stop within two days , since the roads would be jammed with accidents caused by impatient car drivers overtaking recklessly. I tried this one day when I had a couple of extra hours to kill; it surprised me as to how drivers who would quite happily wait for a sensible gap at 50mph, would dart out suicidally at 40.
Mind you from what I've seen so far on here the truckers would still get slated even though they were adhering to the law!
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> All it needs is for EVERY truck in the UK to rigidly observe the speed limits
No what they need to harleyman, is to drive side by side on dual carriagway A roads fpr 12 miles. That would jam things up.
Oh wait they do that anyway, no-one would notice.
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< Ulla>
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