Is there a right or wrong way to change gear?
I had a new car recently and i've found myself being soft, gentle and slow with changing gear and wondered whether i was doing the right thing. So:
Should you
1) Change slowly and let clutch out slowly
2) Change positively and quite quickly and let the clutch out gradually
3) Change firmly and quite quickly and let the clutch out quite quickly
4) Change fast and let the clutch out fast (i think i know this isn't the right way!)
5) Doesn't really matter
Also
- What is the correct way to block change? E.g. 4th to 2nd
1) 4th through neutral to 2nd - then let the clutch up
2) 4th into 3rd into 2nd - then let the clutch up
3) Doesn't matter
I thought i'd raise this as no1 has ever taught me the correct way to change gear and i started to think about auto cars. I released on the way to work today how slow my gear changes actually were. I was letting the car coast for at least half a second as i go from 2nd to 3rd and then released the clutch gradually. I started to wonder if i was doing damage. Prompted by driving an auto at the weekend and realising the gear change is rather quick and sometimes almost a jerk as if a manual clutch was released too quick.
I think it is also to do with having a brand new car and treating it too gently. All the quick cars i've had in the past i gave them pretty firm and quick gear changes.
So is my habbit of super slow gear changes a bad habbit because i feel i should be A LOT more positive going through the gears and engaging them quickly without forcing or racing them.
Edited by OldSkoOL on 04/12/2007 at 15:01
|
Slow is fine AFAIK, it gives the syncros a chance to do their job without being forced.
Slightly off topic but I'm always amazed at how bad a lot of new cars (Or drivers of new cars are changing gear from 1st to 2nd) The cars seem to hold the revs so the change is always jerky.
Can't pin it down to any make, just newer cars that shouldn't have sensor faults.
|
|
|
I'd generally go for the first part of 2) and the second part of 3), Change positively and let the clutch up quite quickly although there could be variables that could affect the method to adopt.
P.s. Have you considered an automatic ? ;0)
-----------------------------------------------
2005 Ford Mondeo Zetec 2.0 TDCi 130ps
|
|
|
Soft, rather than slow, is my choice - gentle pressure which will allow the synchromesh to do its work then the gear will fall into place. You can help things along by matching engine speed - you would normally lift off when changing up I guess, but fewer people would bring the revs up when changing down. I hate to see anyone ramming the lever straight through neutral and into gear.
I can't see why there would be benefit in working the lever through intermediate gears.
Clutch engagement should ideally avoid both shock loads and slip - which makes it a bit of a skill I suppose, and matching revs helps with that.
|
First, it's your clutch and your gearbox - treat it exactly how you want to!
Second, as far as I know, there isn't one correct way to change gear - it depends on the vehicle and the scenario. You might change gear differently in an old AEC truck to how you might change gear in a Ford Fiesta, taking Aunty Ethel to church to how you might make progress in an emergency situation in an Ambulance.
I strongly suspect you'll be told one "correct" answer for each post in this thread.
There's absolutely no advantage to going into intermediate gears when block changing - in fact, all you're doing is wasting time and causing needless wear (see my first point though!). I would argue, as has already been pointed out that matching the revs is, by far, the most important thing if you want to minimise wear.
If you do match the revs perfectly, there's no wear at all on the synchros, and you can let the clutch out as quick as you like, there'll be no wear and no jerk. The operative word, however, is perfectly!
Number_Cruncher
|
|
|
|
I don't rush the changes - most mechanisms have their own speed; a renault 4 gearchange is much slower than than MX-5s ! The engine speed should be a good match for the road speed so the clutch should come up fairly quick.
On up changes - this will depend on how high the engine is revved, and if you block-change.
On down-changes; the recommendation now is that you brake - keeping in gear - until you are (nearly) at your hazard, then choose the correct gear for the hazard and proceed. A block change may well be required. Your clutch should not need to do much speed matching and should be quick. Also - because your hazard is close - your gearchange should be quick, but precise. There is some disagreement on overlapping the braking phase with the gear selection phase. Personally, I do overlap.
When blockchanging, don't go through the intermediate gears (on a sequential box - such as a motorcycles', then you must go through intermediates). It's rare to miss out two gears on upchanges (eg 2nd to fifth) unless you have a close ratio box; fairly common to miss two on down shifts - eg fifth to second.
IAM / RoSPA will teach you how to change gear - and (much more fun) how to overtake :-)
|
I always see a gearchange as having two parts - out of gear and into neutral, then into the next gear. I find I pause imperceptively in neutral, and can feel the friction of the syncro cone through the oil drag a fraction before it actually starts to bite. There is then no engagement resistance to mention. Slide it a fraction too impatiently and there is a slight clunk through the lever.
When you think you have the knack off pat, try not depressing the clutch at all - it shouldn't make any difference.
|
|
|
|
I think the method can change between cars. My aim (when I've had manual cars) was to make the acceleration seamless & the change as undetectable as possible. I practised quite alot in minibuses when I drove lots of older people around - they liked smooth with no detectable g-force.
1st to 2nd was always the test, and I generally practised an exaggerated slowness to allow the synchromesh to 'catch-up' or in non-synchromesh boxes, time for the heavy engine flywheel to blip up to speed on the throttle.
Block changes - up or down, never consider pausing at the intermediate gear - not sure why you'd need to.
Don't you find cars generally tell you quite soon their preferred method though? Some react well to vigourousness, while others work best with a more deliberate approach. Cue Swiss Tony...
Edited by woodbines on 04/12/2007 at 15:36
|
|
I think woodbine has the secret - no detectable slump or surge in acceleration - which means using the throttle accurately to "synchronize" the revs as well as clutch and gearlever. Engines, clutches, gearboxes and differentials do last longer when treated like that.
|
Well thank-you Ruperts T! ;;;blush;;;
Driving old ladies around was , those many years ago, an excellent discipline for practising smooth driving - I always knew by the 'cake count' at the end of the week how I'd done!
Edited by woodbines on 04/12/2007 at 16:08
|
The right way to change gear is the one that gives smooth-as-silk gear changes in your car, with no:
- Jerk as the clutch comes up (too quick, too tough)
- Slipping of the clutch/slurring of the revs (probably sitting too close to the pedals)
- Hestitation/slight slowing of speed as the clutch comes up (too slow; the revs have already fallen below what's needed for the higher gear)
- Graunching of gears (beating the synchromesh, which is worn).
If you've a tachometer, see to it that the needle falls in one even movement as the gear is changed.
Block changes: go straight from 5th to third, etc.
The hardest changes to get right are down-changes, which is why I variously heel-and-toe, double de-clutch or give the revs a boost by maintaining pressure on the throttle pedal while single de-clutching.
|
|
|
|
Changing down I block change 5-3 or 5-2 or 4-2, with a noticeable throttle blip with the side of my braking foot as the box goes thro neutral.
changing up I wait a wee mo as the revs die a fraction from the peak they were at and then feather the throttle as the new upper gear is selected.
Try changing up and down with no clutch to "feel" your box and ratios.
------
< Ulla>
|
|
|
|
>>>Cue Swiss Tony...
You beat me too it woodbines. I was wondering if I said things like changing gear is like making love to a etc. would get me into trouble with the mods. I was going to advise about ramming it in and all sorts of silly stuff.
Good job you stopped me. By the way I think my first cigarette was a woodbine, or it could have been a park drive. I don't do it now.
|
Always treat the controls as gently as they allow.
I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned double-declutching, but on a moden car all that would do is put twice as much wear on the clutch and clutch release components!!
|
.....double-declutching but on a moden car all that would do is put twice as much wear on the clutch and clutch release components!!
Well, that's certainly one opinion!
It certainly lessens synchromesh wear, which is still significant in 'modern' cars once they get a bit 'leggy'. The wear is saved on the gearbox, which is the expensive bit?
Other advantages - smoothness, although a good sustained revs change is probably as smooth.
So that'd be just the saved wear to the synchromesh then!
|
Is it just me that`s always coasting through town in neutral, to save wear on the transmission?
Regards ;)
Edited by oilrag on 04/12/2007 at 21:18
|
If you coast around town in neutral in a diesel you will be wasting fuel.
And if I understand correctly breaking the law.
As for how to change gear I am a little lost for words. I think the last time I gave a moments thought to changing gear was on my driving test about 40 years ago.
If you have to actually think about the actual mechanics of driving I reckon you need to do a lot more of it until it is completely instinctive then you can give every brain cell to the road and the other pillox around you.
Sorry just my four pennorth
|
If you have to actually think about the actual mechanics of driving I reckon you need to do a lot more of it until it is completely instinctive...
Nothing instinctive about driving imho. You need to learn good habits or unlearn bad ones, just like playing the clarinet.
Edited by woodbines on 05/12/2007 at 00:40
|
Changing gear is like making love to a beautful woman. You've got to be smooth but decisive and really know when to make your move.....
Swiss Tony
|
|
|
I agree with AE, once you have taught yourself to drive with no clutch, feeling the gears into mesh becomes instinctive. This then develops good habits for life, breeding mechanical empathy. However it does make you super aware of other peoples failings when being driven!
The only advice is dont practice it your brand new car, a history with old cars helps.
I have never had to do a replacement clutch, where I have been the owner from new , in cars that have reached 125k, 101k, and 90k. (or even a gearbox change for the cynics amongst you!).
--
pmh (was peter)
|
|
|
< just like playing the clarinet.
There is no similarity at all between driving and playing the clarinet.
|
There is no similarity at all between driving and playing the clarinet.
What could you mean? They are virtually identical, and a maestro at one is quite likely to be a maestro at the other. Not many people know that the legendary New Orleans jazz clarinettist Sidney Bechet won the Indianapolis 500 on eleven separate occasions, the first in 1915, but under a number of aliases owing to that era's old-fashioned attitudes about who was allowed to excel in what sport. Even fewer know that Ed Unser jr., another accomplished clarinettist, was sacked from the New York Philharmonic Orchestra after filling a tympani with aviation fuel and setting it alight during a concert. Musical sensibility and craftsmanship are not always accompanied by the steadiness of outlook they need to enable them to prosper long-term.
|
One of my schoolmate's dads once demonstrated how he could drive through Oxford town centre in a manual Cavalier mk3 1.6 using the clutch only when coming to a rest, and when pulling away. Up and down through the box with perfectly smooth clutchless changes, and impeccably timed blips on the downchanges I never once saw him force the gearlever and never once heard or felt the gearbox protest.
It was smoother than most drivers can manage using the clutch normally. I've never forgotten it - very impressive.
Cheers
DP
--
04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
|
I once drove 260 miles back from South wales with a collapsed clutch bracket in a Fiesta. Carefully doing clutchless changes, coast to a halt in neutral, engine off, into first and turn the starter on pulling away in first. No crunching, just heavy on the synchomesh.
(as I`ve already been `told off;) ;) for coasting in neutral through town and `breaking the law` thought I would tell you this ;)
Got me home and i was moving the car on soon anyway.
Regards
|
My training was done on a Morris Minor Series MM - broken clutch rod! Home to N london from L'boro and then driviong round for a week until I made a new rod.
I am not sure a modern car starter motor would be so forgiving.
--
pmh (was peter)
|
There is no similarity at all between driving and playing the clarinet.
As well as Lud's eloquent wit, I would say drbe, how would you know?
I compare them from my experiences in both.
Learning to drive, as any driving instructor would tell you, is completely about learning good habits & techniques & practising them until they become (virtually) innate. The comparison (or analogy) was about the process of learning, not the practicalities.
Edited by woodbines on 05/12/2007 at 16:44
|
What could you mean?... Even fewer know that Ed Unser jr. another accomplished clarinettist was sacked from the New York Philharmonic Orchestra after filling a tympani with aviation fuel and setting it alight during a concert.
Holy smoke, I can't even breath after reading that lot! I'm actually crying with laughter!
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 05/12/2007 at 18:38
|
|
|
|
|
|
