A few months ago my mother in law was looking to buy another car and fancied a new Corsa SXI. She took her 52 plate Corsa SRI into the local dealer and they made her a daft offer for it in px and no discount on list.
When she told me about this I did a little bit of searching on the internet and checked out the online deals. She wasn't looking for any finance and was going for a cash deal. I hunted around and most of the web outfits were managing to sell a pre-reg one for about 2K under list (about 9 1/2K). I then contacted one of them (www.nationwidevehicles.co.uk ) and entered into a contract with a 3 month delivery on the car. A week or so later we paid a £550 deposit to place the order. It was explained that the V5 would be retained for a period of up to 12m by the supplying company, this was a bit longer than some pre-reg deals but most involved some form of retention of V5. I did a little bit of research online and found that this was indeed the norm for pre-reg's albeit that 12m was longer than usual.
The car is now at the supplying dealer and ready to go. Now here is the bit that's concerning me.....the paperwork dropped through the door this morning and it is structured in the form of a 12m contract deal with no interest on it through a finance company called CPL finance and quotes an arangement through "4wheels4u". It is set up in such a way that it takes into account the deposit and then requires payment of the balance (8900 ish) and then shows a "balloon" payment at the end of £115.
When I entered into the agreement there was no mention of this sort of structure, only that the we would pay the balance before delivery and that the V5 would be retained.
When I challenged the broker tonight he acknowledged that this was something new to provide "an auditable trail" to protect all parties. I asked why nationwide vehicles weren't mentioned anywhere in this agreement and he advises that as a broker this is direct with his supplier - 4 wheels 4 u. Apparently the 115 reflects the fact that if the V5 isn't returned to my MIL within the year, perhaps a few days late, then the supplier will bill us the 115 and provide another 12m road tax. I asked him what form of receipt I would get to back up the legal ownership of the car and he confirms that he would send an "invoice paid" receipt for the total balance of the car. I told him I was not happy and that I thought they'd moved the goalposts from the original agreement. I asked what the situation was if I cancel, apparently he has to pay £450 cancellation fee to his supplier and thus I will get my deposit back minus this £450. If I cancel now obviously we will be 450 down and my MIL will be disappointed that she won't get the new car she thought she was about to get. But if we go ahead I am concerned by this spurious credit agreement contract that we have entered into......
Apologies for the length of the post, I would welcome any advice I could get in this situation. On one hand I'm partially convinced this is the way these things are run but on the other hand I don't want any hassle to come my way.....
Also if anyone has had any dealings with Nationwidevehicles I'd appreciate any feedback.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 07/11/2007 at 19:11
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Never dealt with them so can't comment on the company but it seems a dubious method for pre-reging a car. Usually it's just registered to the dealer/fleet company and then a couple of months down the line it's re-registered to you.
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this sounds totally out of order to me and clearly you are unhappy with the situation
legally it probably depends on the terms you agreed on when paying the deposit - subject to them being deemed reasonable towards a consumer
read them carefully and see if that makes your position clearer
did you pay the deposit by credit card?
Edited by nick1975 on 07/11/2007 at 19:07
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I think the reason for this is that manufacturers are now cracking down hard on so-called 'third party deals' in response to moans from dealers. DVLA are also being encourage by SMMT to look hard at V5 retention.
Basically the way it works is this...
I set up a company as a 'daily renta'l company.
I approach car manfr who agrees to sell me X cars on their very favourable daily rental terms (25% discount, vehicle to be retained for Y months).
I approach broker and offer him car at 20% discount, V5 to be retained by me in case of audit by manfr.
Broker sells at 17% off.
I suspect the financial arrangement is due to manfr crackdown on this. i.e. full title to vehicle does not pass to you until 12 months have elapsed and therefore the original purchasing company can claim to still own the car if manfr checks up on them.
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Pretty much the same story the guy at NW vehicles said. Still a bit concerned though. The deposit was paid by CC but to be honest it'd be a real shame to drop out now as the MIL is looking forward to her car and I'll get no end of grief if I recommend backing out now!
My only abiding concern to be honest is in relation to this "Purchase Contract Agreement" with the finance company despite all of the balance having been paid. For eg. what would happen if either of these outfits went bust over the next 12 months. MIL would have a reciept for paying for the car but would not have a V5. I guess at the end of the day she can prove she's paid for the car in full to a registered trader.....
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I suspect the financial arrangement is due to manfr crackdown on this. i.e. full title to vehicle does not pass to you until 12 months have elapsed and therefore the original purchasing company can claim to still own the car if manfr checks up on them.
Sounds about right. I wouldn't be happy paying upfront for something that won't legally belong to me for ~12m (HP being wholly different from this, of course), particularly where the mechanism by which this is being done is to blag a discount from the mfr to which the end purchaser is not strictly entitled.
I perceive the possibility of singeing of fingers in the event that the daily rental co (using Aprilia's example) runs into financial difficulty.
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I have bought 2 cars from Nationwide Vehicles and recommended them to 30+ staff within my I.T company. I know 6 have bought from them and everybody who has bought from them I know seem extremely happy especially about how much money they have saved.
My initial purchase was delayed by the dealer and one of the directors of nationwide Vehicles brought the car to me personally to my house on the south coast which I found very impressive and beyond the boundaries of helpfulness.
At the end of the day I know the way the deal works and if you want to save a chunk of money then you have to accept the jiggery pokey these brokers need to do to protect their income. Based on what you say it sounds to me that they are protecting you and ensuring your car stays taxed again in 12 months.
The alternative is go to your local dealer and pay a lot more and meet a inexperienced salesperson which by the sound of it you have already encountered.
The best advice I can give based on my experience with Nationwide Vehicles is to go with the flow. I found Nationwide pleasant, helpful and knowledgeable. I was told their background is high end motor trade and I have no reason to disbelieve them as their conduct with me was extremely professional. I do not think these guys are sat at home playing with their computers.
I will personally not hesitate to buy another car from them and everyone I have referred them to are a few grand better off for the experience
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i wonder who maxs works for...???
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What are you implying normd2?
Funnily enough I clicked on his profile, but you beat me to the post.
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implying nothing but i smell fishies
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Max S here You are a cynical lot it is very easy to hide behind your emails and knock everybody. I have found in my business life you come across negative faceless people everyday it is simple to knock someone without knowing them but a lot harder to give praise I am a great believer in being positive about real people who give good service.
m3evocab have asked other customers to give there experiences and mine for one was excellent
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apologies if I offended but if a 'faceless' person goes ott about a company then I think I'm entitled to be cynical until proven otherwise.
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--especially in their first ever post.
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Proof is in the pudding Norm put your neck on the line and buy a car from them
Edited by Webmaster on 15/11/2007 at 16:45
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I do hope they pay you commission.
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Rather than give a perception that the BR is an unwelcoming place for the first time poster please refrain from making negative comments publically when you doubt their authenticity, refer them to one of us either by e-mail or by the reporting button and let us sort them out - thanks
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I meet a person for the first time.
I'm suspicious about a financial deal he's offering me.
He tells me to "put my neck on the line" as proof of his offer.
I think I'll hang on to my hard-earned thank-you.
Edited by Webmaster on 15/11/2007 at 16:46
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as a fully paid up member of the bangernomics motoring fraternity (the last car I bought cost less than half the deposit above) my neck is staying exactly where it is thanks very much.
Edited by Webmaster on 15/11/2007 at 16:47
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I have been watching this with interest.
The car sales over the internet has been going on for years as has the retention on the V5's. This is not something new......
I am sure some customers whom have bought from the inetrnet get let down as they do when they buy from the dealers.
Thru past experience the not so good suppliers will quite happily buy a multiple of cars and sell the cars to a forecourt / supermarket which is just not allowed, when this happens it jeopordises the fleet code that cars are bought on and hence customers get let down and they do not get there car, and have to start all over again.
I think the supplier is being very cautious about his discounts and as a compnay are setting themselves up to be here for the long run rather than supplying 100's of cars all over the place and not being bothered where they end up. I would rather buy from someone like this as you know you are going to get your car.
I have been in the car internet industry many years and have seen many different things come and go, we all want the internet car industry to stay as we save thousand of pounds on each transaction. If you are not happy with retention periods then buy from dealers but be rest assuered if someone is going to take the time to put things like this in place they are here to stay and are not fly by night suppliers.
It is not long ago that one supplier whom we shall leave anoynymous spent 10's of thousands of pounds on advertising. One day they were the best thing since sliced bread the next day the phone lines were dead and the website was turned off!!!
Brokers are the way to buy these days, most know exactly what they are doing. Do a search on the brokers before you buy if you don't see any bad press then go with them, many people will put pen to paper when they have had a bad experience but rarley do when they have had the service they expect or beyond. if in doubt speak to the broker and ask them for a couple of references before proceeding.
Just my thoughts......
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"Been watching with interest" but only joined the forum today..........
--
2007 Seat Altea XL 2.0 TDI (140) Stylance
2005 Skoda Fabia vrS
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bet he's not a million miles from maxs.....
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Have you nothing better to do?
It does not matter whether i joined today or 3 years ago the fact is I have taken time to put my thoughts across about the situation.
If you want to make small idiotic comments then feel free, but on the other hand if you digest what I have just said you never know you may learn a thing or two.
All too often do people think they know everything about the internet car trade, they don't which is why sites like this are set up, people like you give the job a bad name.
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no, not really - just rejected the latest s/w release so I'm at a loose end 'til it's fixed. still getting paid so it's all good.
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Have you nothing better to do? It does not matter whether i joined today or 3 years ago the fact is I have taken time to put my thoughts across about the situation.
Your comments in your previous post are fair enough. However, bear in mind that we've had a number of instances where new members have posted seemingly genuine questions, a thread has developed and all of a sudden bing! it's a sales pitch for some product or service or whatever.
That's why folks on here tend to get openly sceptical, not to say sarcastic, with newbies gushing praise about something.
My own view on this retention business is that I don't like it; when I pick up the keys I want the car either to belong to me outright, or to a reputable finance co because I bought it on a pukka HP agreement.
I agree that only a minority of crooks set up in business with any view other than to build a successful company over the long term. However, people get their sums wrong/markets change/stuff happens, and personally would not want the possibility that some liquidator or administrator or receiver or whatever could start causing me aggravation simply because the paperwork has been set up to make it look like the car belongs to some company or other, simply to wangle some sort of fleet discount out of a manufacturer. I might not necessarily lose the car in such circumstances, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to be a test case.
Possibly what I do for a living inclines me to have this pessimistic view, but there you go.
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