Indeed even within Florida such as in the Keys life is different.
From my experience there are really three Floridas: the Keys, which really have nothing to do with the rest of the state (very different from the mainland)
central/south Florida, i.e. Orlando to Miami, where all the tourist stuff goes on,
and northern Florida, which is much more like Alabama and southern Georgia than the rest of Florida--very Old South, laid back and peaceful compared to the tourist areas. Also very redneck--places like Gainesville are about the most redneck I've ever seen, with the possible exception of Columbus, Georgia: YEEE HAAAAAAAA!!
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My experience of driving in almost every US state over a period of 15 years is that the car markets vary significantly both between rural and urban and between "newer/western/southern" states and the North-east/Oregon/Northern California. In the rural and newer western/southern states you see a dominance of larger vehicles, a huge number of SUVs and trucks and especially the fullsize versions (often seeing people who look like 5ft nothing high housewives driving something 18/19 ft long and nobody seems to bat an eyelid) and a strong domestic orientation to purchasing - eg Ford/GMC trucks although in cars the Japanese makes are everywhere. In urban areas and especially university towns/Boston/SF Bay area/Oregon/Washington etc you tend to see often a street of European sized cars eg BMWs, Volvos, Smaller Japanese models, VWs etc and a much more eclectic range of vehs. Also if you are in an upscale neighbourhood in a well educated/university place you'll tend to see again not huge cars - maybe midrange SUVs, premium makes etc a little like here. Do remember though that by US standards any European or Japanese vehicle looks modest sized eg Volvo estate, X5 or Range Rover looks relatively small.
Generally their driving I think is more courteous...there are specific rules there that pedestrians crossing side streets have priority unlike here. PLus I think there is a more "cruise about gently in an auto" mentality rather than a cut and rush mentality here...Its quite hard and uncomfortable actually to drive a US car agressively I've found.
Peugeots, VWs and Volvos were quite popular in the 1970s and 1980s. They tended to be bought by well educated professionals - partly I think as a bit of a left field thinking person choice and that they were often more enjoyable to drive than standard tanks of the main makes. Also there is quite a strong slant to many educated liberal Americans especially in California/NYC that domestic makes are symbolic of big US business interests and not buying their output was a symbolic statement.
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to continue also. I think the European makes made decent headway when the 1970s oil crisis hit and the Europeans had ready made models to export (plus more of such models were being fitted with bigger engines/pas/AC so suiting Americans) rather than the rather hastily downsized US output at the time (anyone who has ever driven a mid size US car from the 70s and 80s will know what I mean - often with asmatic engines and ponderous handling without the space or smoothness of a proper v8 full sized car).
Diesel cars are seen as very odd. There was a trend in the 1970s and early 80s for Merc diesels (in fact in the US almost every Merc of this era you'll find was diesel stateside) and a few Peugeots but I think they lost market share hugely when oil prices dropped again. Also there is not much of a car based diesel infrastructure in the US. In some ways it is like the UK in the late 70s where the diesel pump was out with the trucks on the other side of the building.
The vast majority of US drivers have no knowledge whatsoever of the prowess of modern turbodiesels as the Europeans are either not there or only sell the same model with a V6 petrol/V8 engine. Also if you could get a 3.0 A4 or a 320 C class for 75% of the price of a 1.8 here what would you choose?
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"In the 1970s you could get Fiats and Alfa Romeos in the States, but the Italians have long since withdrawn as well"
Alfa are on their way back and of course Ferrari always there. Not sure of the Masserati's.
Diesel cars in some states (e.g. California) became illegal soon after my brother bought his diesel Bettle in around 1999. Again with cleaner diesels on their way back.
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Alfa are on their way back and of course Ferrari always there. Not sure of the Masserati's.
Maserati are definitely here. Often see them in downtown Chicago
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Maserati are definitely here. Often see them in downtown Chicago
Yes, I'll give you that: Maserati (their current Quattroporte, IMO, is one nice car), Ferrari and Lamborghini are available in the US--here in this tourist area, there is a noticeably higher than usual concentration of wealthy folks showing off their wealth by driving Italian sports cars like the above, or Rolls/Jaguar/Bentley--I've never seen so many really-high-buck cars like those concentrated in one area.
That said, Italian cars that the average Joe could actually afford (back in the Seventies, my high school English teacher bought a new Fiat sedan on his teachers' salary) are nonexistent here.
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Thanks to all for your observations so far, however no-one yet commented about the huge price differentials (true only looked at two specific examples of euro cars), but US buyers pay only 60-70% of what we do in Europe. Is this loss leading, because I'm sure it's got nothing to do with volume and AFAIK A3's and 5 Series are not built in the US.
Why are we ripped off...?? So much I mean....?
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Why are we ripped off...?? So much I mean....?
Basically because we can be - cars are priced for what the market will stand.
Of course they don't have VAT in the US. They do have sales tax in most states of around 7%, but the prices you see are exclusive of all add-on charges. There would be perhaps $5K to add on to the price of a $30K car.
The current exchange rate exaggerated the difference too - do the calcs at £1=$1.50. The current rate is killing the German manufacturer?s profits.
One thing that baffles me (bearing in mind lower new prices) is that used cars seem relatively expensive in the US. The higher residuals also mean they have amazing lease deals. A US colleague told me that a typical college grads car would be a BMW328i (I think the fact that that?s the entry level hacks me off more than the price!), which can be leased for $359/mth.
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Of course they don't have VAT in the US. They do have sales tax in most states of around 7%
Which you also have to pay if you buy a second hand car privately!! At least in Illinois.
One thing that baffles me (bearing in mind lower new prices) is that used cars seem relatively expensive in the US.
You are right. Every time I pass some rusty old nail parked at the side of the road I see they want $2000 for it, when back in the UK it would be a hundred quid.
I'd not lease a car again - the deals sound cheap but they have ridiculously low mileage limits after which you are paying 60c or something per mile.
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I'd not lease a car again - the deals sound cheap but they have ridiculously low mileage limits after which you are paying 60c or something per mile.
I noticed when I was over there that many of the deals seemed to be for 15K/yr (in the UK the special offer deals might be for 6K).
The BMW deal I mentioned is 10K/yr, with an excess of 20c/mile, which still seems pretty reasonable. I also note the $359/mth includes auto, sunroof, and full maint for 50K miles.
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The BMW deal I mentioned is 10K/yr with an excess of 20c/mile which still seems pretty reasonable.
Sure it's OK as long as you can keep to that... I had a similar lease, but found I was doing a lot more than 10k per year, even just with trips downtown at weekends and shopping etc. during the week and the occasional trip out of state. Fortunately I was able to get out of the lease.
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" Every time I pass some rusty old nail parked at the side of the road I see they want $2000 for it, when back in the UK it would be a hundred quid."
Presumably they don't have anything quite like our MOT. Or badge snobbery... :-)
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Presumably they don't have anything quite like our MOT. Or badge snobbery... :-)
The MOT stuff varies by state. In some parts of Illinois there is an emissions test for cars more than - I think - 3 years old. You take your car to a testing station and put it on rollers. They stick a big fan in front of the car and then run it up with a pipe up the exhaust. Based on that your get a pass/fail. Again only some cities in Illinois mandate that. As for roadworthiness there's nothing as far as I know.
As for badge snobbery, it seems to me there's just generally a lot less interest in cars generally here than in the UK. It's just an essential for getting from A to B. Or maybe that's just the people I know.
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Given Indianapolis versus Silverstone, I think we can guage the different approach to motoring there against the UK! Americans certainly prefer what are often on this site called 'lux barges', and are happy just to cruise about. Their speed limits too are low - 50mph in many states. I assume most only drive relatively locally and maybe 5,000 p.a., rather than the 20,000+ that many posters' here seem to do.
It is also true I believe that there are no company cars in the US - or anywhere else for that matter. It's a uniquely British thing I understand [thanks Ted Heath]. Private sales in the UK show quite different buying patterns to company car purchase I think, so private versus US would be a more apples and apples comparison. With a UK average household income of £35,000 pre tax, who on earth's buying BMWs new - not private buyers that's for sure.
And that of course is essentially why we pay more for our cars than Americans - because so many of us don't pay!
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I assume most only drive relatively locally and maybe 5 000 p.a. rather than the 20 000+ that many posters' here seem to do.
Perhaps someone who lives in the US might comment, but I'd be certain that's not correct - most American conurbations are *very* spread out. We have relatives who live in a gated community in Florida and they're 2.5 miles from the front gate. Their nearest shop is 8 miles away.
It is also true I believe that there are no company cars in the US - or anywhere else for that matter. It's a uniquely British thing I understand
Company cars (or at least company funded cars) are just as common in other major European countries. Even where they're not, car prices are broadly similar to UK.
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I did a 2 week fly drive in California/Nevada/Arizona
one thing that struck me was the variance in fuel prices.
In the UK, there will be a few pence per litre, but broadly between 0.95 - 1.03 ppl - expect motorways perhaps.
In the USA, it was anywhere between 2.40 - 3.00 a US gallon. I couldn't understand any reasoning why, eg local competition, remote location. Some of the most remote garages had the lowest prices too...
Overall I found driving very enjoyable in the USA - utterly stress free apart from the last few miles on the LA highway system.
I was left with an utter loathing of auto boxes though - the Jeep Liberty I had was in the wrong gear for at least 40% of the holiday!
And how can you get only 200bhp out of a 3.7l V6?? I suppose their week 91RON petrol has something to do with it...
Finalyl, IMO the recycling agenda in the UK is driven by the EU artifical landfill tax. America just doesn't seem to have a problem with putting rubbish in the ground, unlike our continential cousins.
Ian
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My impression is that Americans do quite high mileages because the country is so huge. Average speeds over distance are similar to the speed limit, and Americans often give distances not in miles but in time, with an hour equating to about 50 miles. Thus the distance from Cheyenne, Wyoming or Salt Lake City, Utah (I forget which) to Denver, Colorado was said (I think) to be 'about three hours'.
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>> I assume most only drive relatively locally and maybe 5 000 p.a. >> rather than the 20 000+ that many posters' here seem to do. >> Perhaps someone who lives in the US might comment but I'd be certain that's not correct - most American conurbations are *very* spread out.
The most commonly quoted figure you hear is to assume the average driver will put on 10,000 miles/year. I live 14 miles from my work, so that's 140 miles/week commuting, plus maybe 40 miles at the weekend for running errands/church/misc. Over a year that works out to just over 9,000 for me, but I live in the central city--those out in suburbia will clock up more.
And remember, as they said constantly back in the Seventies, "Stay alive--drive 55." Easy to do when the speedometer on your car only goes up to 85. When you're lumbering along at 50 and some hotshot in a BMW roars past you at 65 or 70, everyone just thinks, "Showoff. Scofflaw. He'll get what's coming to him."
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>> I assume most only drive relatively locally and maybe 5 000 p.a. >> rather than the 20 000+ that many posters' here seem to do. >> Perhaps someone who lives in the US might comment but I'd be certain that's not correct - most American conurbations are *very* spread out.
Yes I'd beg to differ. In places like NYC a lot of people just don't bother with a car however, in most other places though you can't live without one. I live in a suburb of a suburb of Chicago and everything is miles away.
Plus in other parts like California, extremely high real estate prices are making "extreme commutes" the norm!
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The most widely quoted average annual mileage figure per car for the USA is 15,000 - considerably more than the UK at approx 9,000 miles.
I say(per car) as the majority of households have 2 cars - and sometimes more.
Whilst cars are undoubtedly cheaper in the USA the prices are considerably more than the 'headline' figure. The Audi A3 Quattro on the road will be in excess of $40,000. Looks cheap in £Sterling now, but over the past 5 years the US$ has weakened by some 40%.
'Proper' insurance(like our comprehensive) is extremely expensive as well - which is why lots of people don't bother with that expense!!
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Their speed limits too are low - 50mphin many states.
Which States would that be?
www.iihs.org/laws/speedlimits.aspx
Not a single State has a speed limit below 65mph, the average speed on most freeways is 5-10mph above the speed limit, but limits are strictly enforced in urban area where 25mph limits are common.(15mph passing schools at certain times)
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" Every time I pass some rusty old nail parked at the side of the road I see they want $2000 for it when back in the UK it would be a hundred quid." Presumably they don't have anything quite like our MOT. Or badge snobbery... :-)
I think there is also another force behind this.
In the UK, people in urban areas on an extremely tight budget may decide to do without a car and use public transport/walk, if possible. With the exception of a couple of major cities, there is practically nowhere in the US where this is feasible. So even for the poorest people, a car is really the only option to get to work.
Secondly, the petrol cost is a large part of the cost of running a car in the UK. If you can afford the petrol, you can probably afford to have a slightly newer car. Whereas in the US, the fuel cost represents a smaller fraction of the running costs, so older, cheaper cars are made viable for poorer parts of society.
Both of these result in a glut of unwanted older cars in the UK, but a demand for them in the US. I helped a friend sell a 15 year old Honda Civic which had 200K miles on the clock, smashed windshield and covered in rust (he used to live in upstate NY). We placed an ad online for $1K, and within 15 mins, the phone was ringing off the hook!
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At this point it is relevant to refer you to one of my favourite sites:
www.hondabeat.com/highmiles.php
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