Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 1) - likerocks

***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 2 *****


I understand that the MZR-CD engine is the same in whole or in part as the TDCI in the Mk3 Mondeo. Having seen how much trouble these seem to be causing backroomers, should I expect the same issues with a Mazda engine? Or do Mazda sensibly use their own pump and injectors?

Edited by Webmaster on 25/08/2008 at 01:37

Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose

Only a small percentage of TDCi's give injector/pump trouble.

In my experience of a fleet of them; nearly all Mazda common-rails will eventually come to a sticky end.

Avoid like the plague.

[The petrol version is no bother at all.]
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - likerocks
interesting opinion..... care to comment a bit more specifically about common faults with the Mazda?

Are the engines different?
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
Mainly failed high-pressure [Denso] pumps and serious lubrication issues leading to total engine failure on '03/4/5/6 plates.

Edited by Screwloose on 29/10/2007 at 16:57

Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Raman
Screwloose, I don't suppose you could provide a link on the internet as to where you read about or obtained this information from PLEASE.

Also do you think the same about the Mazda 3 diesels. I believe these share the same engine as the Ford Focus diesels

Thanks
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
Raman

I obtained that information with my head under various bonnets and a very despondent fleet manager at my elbow.

He's beginning to think that these weren't such a good idea.... [The dealers had him over for £5000 to repair the fuelling on one of them - and that was still under warranty.]

Talk to Delphi [Denso's service agent in the UK] they know all about it. Or any other diesel specialist.

I've never had reason to believe that the Mazda 3 is similarly afflicted; it's a completely different engine and the pump and lube issues on the 6 are unique to it.

Edited by Screwloose on 02/11/2007 at 11:10

Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Raman
Scewloose thanks for your post. I guess, I will stop looking for a Mazda 6 diesel and perhaps consider a Mazda 3 diesel. I used to own a VW GOLF GT TDI 110bhp.. Which was very unrealiable. So I was hoping the Mazda diesel engine would have been better.

Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
Raman

I'd go for the petrol version. On the very latest ones; the overall costings are looking like the petrol is just ahead at all mileages now. Some of the diesel 6 estates are down in the 30's mpg-wise and they've lost that "rocket-ship" feel that the earlier ones had.

The Golf IV wasn't a great car; but the PD engine is the only way to go for a reasonably nightmare-free late diesel. [Except that they can't meet the latest emission level....]
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - james g
Screwloose has written about-
".....issues leading to total engine failure on '03/4/5/6 plates" on Mazda 6 diesels.
Does this mean that Mazda had got the problem sorted by the time of the 07 model?? I hope so because my Mazi dealer says the same 2.0MZR-CD diesel unit will be available in the new 2008 Mazda 6 available next month. I am now thinking twice about what to replace my Mazi with.

If however the problem was sorted by 2007 models then the answer could be a to buy the existing Mazda6; they are going new at around a third off, because of the new model.

And is the Mazda diesel engine really a re-badged Ford Mondeo TDCI oil burner; where can I get a definitive answer on this one?

James

ps. The only issue I have with my existing Mazda 6 is the over rated poor sounding Bose Sound System/6cd player. I've heard better from a wind-up gramaphone.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - dja
That would be mine then! 125K Turbo failure and subsequent total engine failure. 53 TS. Fuelling was never an issue, lubrication was the killer. Occasional oil pressure light showing, but nothing found. Car was "returned to fleet" by lease company.
Daren
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - GenevaJohn
Screwloose, you wrote -

'..........Only a small percentage of TDCi's give injector/pump trouble....'


Does this apply to the Ford-PSA 1.6 TDCi units in the new Focus ?? I've read the threads where they are labelled as unreliable, overcomplex etc.... but I'm just trying to get an idea of statistics/percentages. If it's just a small percentage which fail (and hence entail huge cost) I would seriously consider taking the risk as they are excellent value to buy (ex-fleet, two years old)where I live (in France).

Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
GJ

Yes; only a small percentage of those go wrong. [I haven't figured out which is Ford's bit yet, as they look exactly like a PSA HDi to me.]

As long as you're not the one stuck with a nightmare that is costing you thousands and is still unfixed, then they're fine. It's early days; but I'd take a stab at 1-2% catastrophic failures a year and 5% significant and long-running problems. [The in-and-out of the dealer syndrome.]

That's something like a hundred times less reliable than an equivalent petrol or 500 times worse than the old-tech Ford diesels. Progress?

Everything about a common-rail is right on the edge - there's no margin; if it's fuel is exactly to spec and it's never misfuelled, or there's never the slightest deviation from perfection in it's maintenance; then it might keep going forever - that's might.....

Economically; if you can buy one cheap enough to allow you to trade it on, broken, if the worst happens - then go for it. Even with the latest oil prices, diesel is still cheaper than petrol over there - isn't it?
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - GenevaJohn
Thanks SL......very interesting

Diesel where I live in France is about 80 pence a litre. I can buy petrol at about the same price across the border in Switzerland.

common sense would say 'buy petrol' to avoid the risk, exept that .........eg. a 2005 focus estate 1.6tdci 110 trend with 68 000 kms (42,500 miles) is 10,000 euros (7000 pounds). Don't know what they cost in England but it's a good deal for around where I live. (These are ex-fleet cars, and the fleets don't buy and sell petrol cars over here)

That's why I'm asking these questions about percentages and risk......

Thanks again, and thanks a lot for the replies about the Punto.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
GJ

Ahh; I remember derv at 80 pence a litre - happy days.....

[It was £1.08ltr at the local garage this morning. Still; it'll doubless come down soon with the dollar falling to £2.09 - won't it?]
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - wirefox
Interesting comments by SL on 6 injector/pump failure.
I have an 03 TS2 with now 106,000 on the clock running very well(other than a tappet tick since 30k that hasn't got any worse).It does 43 mpg with sensible(mixed) driving,50+ at steady 60,uses little oil,revs smoothly up to the redline and hasn't missed a beat.But I wonder now if I'm pushing my luck and should change what is otherwise an excellent car.Does this type of failure signal itself-or-can anything be checked?I use Shell fuel and occasional Miller's fuel additve as recommended by HJ(tho it didn't improve mpg a jot!).

Some other observations

Only failure so far a front wheel bearing and at least 3 front beam bulbs

Fuel savings are negated to some extent by the high cost of the 60k cambelt change(and tensioner in my case-total £850.May try the next one in France-theres a mazda dealer near Perros-Guirec if you like Brittany!).this is also worth bearing in mind if buying S/H near this mileage

In contrast to an earlier thread,I find the Bose sound system rather good

Still on the original discs

Had the usual corrosion of the alloy wheels(the spoke sides).one set was replaced under warranty but the new ones did the same despite regular cleaning

Overall a fantastic car that i bought on the basis of a test drive where(amongst other things) I was impressed by how good the steering was-it really is a good drive as its designers intended.But should I keep it or sell it?!
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
wirefox

The first sign of pump failure is rough idling. This worsens to stalling when coming to rest and then non-starting when hot.

The length between the first sign and final failure can be up to 10,000 miles. [If it's coming to the end of it's warranty mileage the dealers will say "no fault found" until the moment that the magic 60k appears and then they suddenly remember what causes it... [And how many thousands it's going to cost you.]

The lubrication issue strikes without warning. I've never stripped an engine to find out what fails first; but if you get any oil light irregularities - declutch, switch it off when safe and trailer it to the repairer for sump-off and an oil pump check. [With my experience of Mazda dealers' behaviour, I'd take it anywhere but...]

Even after serious engine damage [spun big ends etc.] there is, strangely, still normal oil pressure?? [Well there was on the one I screwed a gauge into - until I revved it up a bit - then there was this big bang, the piston hit the head and it stopped....]

Second-hand engines [there are two versions] are in huge demand and cost over £5000 - even with 50K on them. For a 2 y/o fleet car; the figures usually fall for breaking them - with the engine gone, they go to the specialist breaker for about £2000.

Despite what people think; I still love the things - just about everything about them is beautifully made and a delight - as long as I'm not paying the bills.....
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - wirefox
Thanks for the advice SL,thats very helpful
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - mikee
Screwloose,

I'm experiencing the symptoms of pump failure that you described, mine is a 2003 2L diesel (121) which has done over 100,000 miles. Are you saying you think the pump failure causes engine failure, or just the lubrication issue?

I've taken it to one Mazda dealer which has seen a few of these cases and they believe it is the suction valve - as mentioned on Honest John's review on this website.

I noticed the rough idling a few months ago, soon followed by occasional stalling, but it drives great once the engine has warmed up, no problems at all (except on rare occasions when the engine is hot it has stalled when coming to a stop say at a junction).
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
mikee

I've no idea what part they're referring to as the "suction valve?" Changing the high-pressure pump sorts the problem; so maybe it's a component in that.

There's no apparent connexion between the HP pump fault and the - much rarer - oil/lubrication failures.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - mikee
Screwloose,

From the Mazda6 review:-

www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=608&

"Failure of suction valve in the fuel tank lifter pump of diesels leads to stalling. Faulty batch of valves in 2003 build cars"

Are we both talking about different pumps here?
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
mikee

Yes; that's a bit odd? I wasn't aware that they even had in-tank pumps on the diesel?

The common failure is the engine-driven high-pressure pump.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - tommyr
Have any Mazda 6 owners with fuel pump/suction valve failures had any luck recouping cost from Mazda UK (especially out of warranty). Just had a quote from Mazda for £700 plus for a 3rd party to replace faulty parts in pump etc (on a 2003 model). It sounds like this is a known problem with the manufacture process so disappointed that Mazda UK can't even carry out the work themselves if this problem is a reasonably common one.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
tommyr

It's quite noticable how the dealers want to wash their hands of this fault. [If they even admit that it exists.]

Try a local diesel specialist and get them to talk direct to Delphi [Denso's UK agent] about a free replacement pump. I've always found them very helpful and straightforward.

They openly acknowledge that there's a problem with the Denso pumps and have always happily supplied a new pump FOC for them to fit.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - tommyr
Thanks very much Screwloose - appreciate your advice. I've had to bite the bullet though and get this repair done via 3rd Party in Yorkshire (I believe) - we need the car back for Christmas travel. Will get back on this thread to provide an update re: cost of repair and response from Mazda!

Thanks again.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - chrisdyke
Yes, known problem. Mazda contributed 40% to the third party repair, which came in at under £500 and took about 2 weeks. I will now seriously consider another M6 TD in future, but only if I can be satisfied that this problem has now been solved. My car was over 1 year out of warrenty, so I was glad that Mazda actually cared about customer satisfaction.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - daveholmfirth
Chrisdyke or anybody with similar experience,
My diesel mazda is a similar age and I am going through the goodwill route with mazda. However, the main dealer claims it is unlikely to be successful as the milage is 93,000. What was your mileage when Mazda agreed to contribute 40% towards the repair and have you any advice based on your experience?
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - diesel fuel pump - daveholmfirth
Got my pump repaired at Delphi agents in Halifax for £200 plus vat. They were able to replace the faulty valve in situ and it only took a couple of hours hence the price. Mazda dealer in Huddersfield wanted £800 and claimed it would take possibly two weeks. Apparantley the main dealers send it to Halifax.
The car is running like new.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - diesel fuel pump - andymcc
Hi Dave
Can I ask where you found your Delphi agent?
I want to try and find one in the Glasgow area if possible, otherwise I will just pull a diesel specialist out the Yellow Pages.
thanks, Andy
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Hollingsmith
Hiya,

re: Mazda 6 2.0d Estate, 53 plate, 47k. Bought Dec 07 from Potters Bar Mazda

Yet another failed pump! My car started to stall, Mazda checked it out as ok, then on a recent longer trip started to lose power over 3k rpm - the engine was fluffing. Then on the overrun, then car completely conked out and rolled to a stop (on a dark wet A34 during those recent storms - not good). Managed to nurse it to our destination with regular stops - refused to tick over at all.

Next day I took it to a very helpful Mazda dealer in Newbury. Dealer instantly suggested the pump as the problem (as described so many times on this forum). Fortunately the Mazda warranty covers this, so picking the car up this Thursday (20-Mar-08). Warranty also provided a hire car for 10 days - handy since we live 100 miles away from Newbury. Hoping that's the end of any more problems in this area.

I am one of the lucky ones it seems! Just have the lubrication issue to worry about next!! I think I'll be changing the oil every 6k!
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - andymcc
I have exactly the same problem with my 136 TS diesel - only 3000 miles outside warranty when I reported it but Mazda are refusing to help me at all.
I have had my car serviced by a local garage all it's life (I bought it new in April 05) with genuine Mazda parts, and because of the fact it wasn't a Mazda franchise, they are saying they will not pitch in.
I take it your service history was fully Mazda chris?
Was it a diesel specialist you went to?

I even asked Mazda UK warranty about going straight to Denso/their importer about the pump but they said the pump has a 62000 mile warranty and therefor that is a dead end too.
Not very impressed with Mazda at the moment to say the least. My local dealership is quoting £1500 for a replacement pump, but the *might* be able to fix my pump for £900.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
andymcc

That's now perfectly normal; Mazda are obviously desperate to throw away the last vestiges of their honour as well as their reputation for reliability.

"This problem only affected pre-'03 cars....." Like heck it does! They won't lift a finger even if they've serviced it themselves - until it's out of warranty.... [I see the pump has suddenly doubled in price - very nice little earner...]

Ring your local diesel specialists [Yell.com] and get them to talk to Delphi. [AMD in Hove only charge £275 for fitting and testing an FOC new pump.]
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - andymcc
Thanks very much screwloose - your advice on this forum really tuned me in to the problem quickly.

I have now written to the MD of Mazda but more to vent my frustration than through any hope of getting results! Doubt it will get through or have any effect anyway.
You had suggested there was an approximately 10K mile ceiling on it failing from first symptoms - I take it that is from experience? I noticed rough idling and the occasional stalling at lights about 6K miles ago but it isn't a problem on warm starts yet... Will it just fail without warning and cut the engine?
The mileage has accumulated while I have been waiting for Mazda to decide whether they will help me - 4 weeks went by while they lost my diagnostics results, then came back and said they had told me they had to send the pump off and were waiting for me to come in with the car and let them take it off - ie the delay was my fault! That was when they asked about service history and when told it was a skilled local garage with Mazda parts, said 'forget it then' or words to that effect.

I will get onto Yell and find a diesel specialist then and hope for the best. Have you found Denso/Delphi sticky about this 62K mile warranty?

Unless things drastically change this is definitely the last Mazda I will buy. I have a car that isn't even 3 years old and has a terminally expensive fault, and the manufacturer is turning their back on it without lifting a finger to help.
Thanks again!
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
andymcc

The stalling and bad idle is the trademark of the pump fault. 10K is the furthest I've seen one struggle on; but it was awful by then - hard work to drive it on to the trailer to take it to AMD.

As it's valves in the pump, that are now available as a separate part, it gives alternatives to the whole pump being changed; but as I've never heard of anything but perfect service from Delphi - an instant apology and FOC pump assembly, every time - [and they've never even asked the mileage] I'd try that route.

They lost the diagnostics?? Pull the other one!! Any Mazda dealer could diagnose stalling on a MZR with 100% certainty over the phone!! They must have done almost every one they've ever sold.

Of the ones on the fleets that I have regular contact with; only 9 out of 23 haven't had a pump yet - mainly because they're new. Now that this is a fairly routine and cheap fix; they're still buying them, as they're otherwise brilliant cars - I worked out a 5% of £7000 addition to the lease costings to cover the risk of needing a new engine due to the known oil/bearings fault. [3 so far...]

If you're keeping your car; get an extended warranty to cover the engine for catastrophic damage.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - andymcc
I was actually really annoyed about the diagnostics because they didn't need to do them, but it was implied they needed to do it for the warranty deal - which they didn't honour - and of course as soon as the diagnostics were done their hand was out for the £65 fee.
Then they said they wouldn't help. Makes yer knuckles itch!

Do you think Delphi would be OK if I phoned them myself, or would it be best coming from a diesel specialist garage?

Funny enough, I got an extended warranty advert through the post from Mazda the other day. Before laughing and tossing it over my shoulder I noticed I couldn't get one anyway - one of the stipulations for extending is a flawless Mazda dealership service history. Like I said I have a flawless independent garage history, but they won't recognise that.

I do agree with you on the car though - apart from this it has been a really good motor.
Only other thing is the belt tensioner which has been replaced twice already but is squealing again now. They won't even fix that, saying that 'if we fixed the tensioner and your warranty ran out the next day, so would your warranty on that bit of work we did'
Charming bunch.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
andy

As the pump will need expert fitting anyway; you're going to need to go through a diesel specialist.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - andymcc
Thanks again.
I will do this and report back how I get on later - sounds like there are others out there that would benefit from the info!
Will also let you know in the unlikely event the MD of Mazda reads my letter and replies...
Cheers
Andy
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - terminal at 74K - fago
I have (or had perhaps now) a 03 136 diesel with 74K miles. Full mazda service history.

I bought it with 6 months ago from a main dealer, with a year's warranty, timing belt etc done as part of the deal at 64K. Initially I was concerned about the oil consumption as after 4K miles the oil light flashed. I topped it up and contacted the dealer who told me engine consumption could be up to .8L/1000klms.

Ever since I've watched the oil consumption.

Anyway this week accelerating out of a roundabout up a hill, oil light flash engine seized and died.

Initial analysis is the engine is wrecked - The messages here seem to match exactly what happened to me. The question is what comes next. The dealer says they will examine the engine and if its a manafacturing fault they will get a new engine and replace.

Is that a big if? Should I expect to have a large battle on my hands based on experience of other people here with Mazda.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - terminal at 74K - Screwloose
fago

Not nice; not nice at all. One crucial point; was it more or less than exactly six months from the time that you bought it, to the day it seized? When the light flashed before; was it very low on oil? Was it low this time?

I'd be interested to know what Mazda say causes this common bearing fault, as no-one will pay me to strip one down and investigate properly. It's not exclusively Mazda diesels - the Toyota D4D does it as well.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - terminal at 74K - fago
Hi Screwloose I hoped you would reply.

It is about 3 days before the six month anniversary when it happened.

The light only previously flashed 4 months ago and since I've kept it topped up, even going to the effort of getting the mobil 5w/30 fully synthetic stuff which cost a fortune.

I assume it was pretty low the last time, it only flashed on cornering.

I'm not expecting given the car is in warranty and the miles are so low that I should have to fork out.

Any information what Mazda have done previously. Admitted responsibility or tried to blame the customer.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - terminal at 74K - Screwloose
fago

You won't need Mazda - you've got the Sale of Goods Act. Far better.

I'm assuming that you can prove the date of purchase and the date that it failed; so you're covered by the SOGA's 6-month "presumption of pre-existence" clause; so it's up to Mazda to prove that it isn't their fault, not yours to prove that it is.

Have a read. www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/faq.htm?id=43

Might be an idea not to mention that it ran low on oil - ever.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - terminal at 74K - fago
Just to close this one off.
Collected the car last weekend, 4 weeks later, shiny new engine block in. I expect Mazda ultimately picked up the bill.

Hoping since the engine is new and not reconditioned Mazda have addressed the earlier 03/04 faults which are causing the engine failure so I should be okay.

Question:
Should this car get a service 1000miles after the engine is run in? What would you recommend.

snipquote

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 04/04/2008 at 19:56

Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - terminal at 74K - Screwloose
fago

Nice to hear of a happy outcome on one of these. I'd assume that the dealer's insurance-backed warranty paid out.

I'd always recommend an oil-change at around 1500 miles after fitting a new engine - purely so that it can be run in on short-life oil - never fully-synth.

With reports that this bearing fault is down to leaking injector washers carboning-up the oil pick-up; I'd also get that drained oil analysed for any evidence that the underlying fault was still there.

Or get rid - fast.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - andymcc
Well - I have heard back from my letter to the MD of Mazda UK.
Predictably it probably got nowhere near him and I have had a reply from the 'Head of Customer Assistance Team' instead, saying that
'based on the lack of service proof and the fact that your vehicle had not been serviced by an authorised Mazda dealership, I must reconfirm that we are unable to contribute to the repair costs.'
He adds that he confirms they have NOT seen a high failure rate of the fuel pumps, therefore there has been no need to issue a recall or vehicle rework.

I should point out that I do have service proof - service book stamped by my garage, and invoices available - but no one ever asked me to produce them at any point in any conversation.

Looks like I am on my own - cheers Mazda!
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - NovakB
Hi

I'm the owner of a 53-plate Mazda 6 TS2 diesel with 93,000 miles.
I've had it for a year (it previously belonged to HSBC bank from new ...
with a full and detailed service and parts history).

I'm having similar intermittent engine cut-outs at low revs when cold.
Having read about the scandalous prices charged to fit and test a new pump,
do you know of any Delphi agents based in the Manchester area?

24+ years of driving and I have never ever come across (or heard about)
a fuel pump giving up the ghost in such a young car.

I must have mis-read all those reviews about Mazda 6s being superbly reliable.
This will certainly be the last Mazda that I drive.

NovakB
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - paulb {P}
[It was £1.08ltr at the local garage this morning. Still; it'll doubless come down soon
with the dollar falling to £2.09 - won't it?]


Yes, that would be nice - wait a minute, what's that sound?

.....flap flap flap flap flap OINK flap flap flap flap flap flap....
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Peter.N.
The more threads I read the more worried I am becoming about changing my car for anything common rail. I have been running Citroen XM 2.1.td estates for the last ten years or so, and although they are not renowned for reliability, I have had nothing like the problems that I am reading on here. I had to put a head gasket on my present one about 50k ago, but since then its been utterly reliable. The last one I sold had nearly 300k on it and was still going well. I want to keep this one going as long as I can get parts for it, as in my opinion they are the best big estate car available, but eventually I will have to change, what do I get, are there any reliable diesels out there? Help!

Peter.N.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
Peter

The VW 1.9 [not 2.0] PD engines are pretty good if you avoid the 150hp one.

Very few diesels are as dependable as the old PSA lump. Mechanically; they're fairly good now [with a few exceptions] but the horrendously complex common-rail systems are a nightmare when anything goes wrong.

I wouldn't run a common-rail that wasn't under bullet-proof warranty; like yourself, I'm sticking with the simple stuff; an old-tech Ford TD and a Detroit V8.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Peter.N.
Hi Screwloose

Am I pleased I spoke to you, Worth your weight in gold on a forum like this! Can I pester you with just one more question, How about BMW diesels? I dont hear so many bad reports but presumably they are basically the same. The early 'late shape' 5 series uses the idi engine, which although it has electronic management is presumably more reliable, although less economical. Any thoughts.

Peter.N.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
Peter

All the current E60 5-series are CR. Of the previous model [E39 '96-'03] some are Bosch VE electronic-rotary, [the 525] but the 520 and 530 are CR.

There have been some head problems and I'm not a fan of the VE pump; but I'd run one, as the old 5-series was a very good car - particularly in estate form.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Flycog
Some lads i know run BMW's 3 series, one a 2000 y reg 320d with well over 100k has had some general ecu probs affecting electric windows etc but engine seems ok with just a new MAF fitted recently to restore a sluggish motor. No major probs like mondeos and others.
Regards
Flycog
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - cheddar
There have been reports of premature turbo failure on the the 320d and 330d though more so the former.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Collos25
I would much sooner be running a Ford at that age than a Beemer unless I had unlimited funds.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Galad
>>The more threads I read the more worried I am becoming about changing my car
for anything common rail.>>

The new Kia C'eed CRD carries a 7 year warranty. I must say this would tempt me back to diesels at 50+mpg, if the warranty is as robust as it appears. Where does Kia source its diesel engines?

Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - drivewell
Don't know about C'eed, but pump on Sedona diesels does not have good reputation. - but there again, my Picasso HDi had a new pump at 10K miles.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Aprilia
Think Kia's have a Siemens pump - at least the Sedona does. Same as many of the Pugs??
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - mark100
i have a Mazda 6 sport (136)2003 diesel and the same thing happened about 65k , the engine would cut out coming to rest eg at a roundabout, eventually I had to get the fuel pump taken out and "refurbished" which cost about £800 . Apparently a new one would be double that. I have now done 121k. From making other enquiries at other garages it seemed like a common problem although Mazda wouldn't admit it...it was just your luck if it failed before the warranty expired.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - wessex
hi i need a bit of advice!! i have a mazda 6 diesel estate that blew the turbo, i have replaced the unit but now i keep getting a flashing oil light as i rev the engine. now looking through the previous posts i suspect the lubrication problems these engines have was the main reason the turbo blew in the first place. what i need to know is where the oil pump is and how big a job is it to replace. car has done 112,000 any suggestions would be a help
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
wessex

Apart from the fact that it's too late; the pump is an "engine out and strip" 12 hour book-time job - and that's for those practiced in that nightmare.

You should be looking for a guaranteed secondhand unit; but be cautious, as there are two distinct types.

Edited by Screwloose on 07/02/2008 at 13:31

Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - wessex
ok, something very strange happend after my last post started the engine took it for a drive and everything was fine, no noises no lights, car very responsive very strange. started it today and still the same then on way back from a run of about two miles started to get a knocking sound from the engine no lights engine still responsive but a big top end knock i think it may be a fuel injector on the way out is there any way to check or will i be using the long bar and ear method? or could it be some thing more serious?
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose

I had one that did that and it was one piston hitting the head, as the big end shells had picked-up and spun.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - LEEZER
Hi all

can anybody tell me if the Engine ECU from mazda 6 diesel can be repaired.

Car will not start and i have replaced the ecu on numerous vehicles and this seems to be the cure.
but im wondering if anybody can or knows how to repair the fault.
symtoms- car does not start intermittently. immobiliser??

2.0 diesel engine ecu
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose

Only about 2% of engine management faults are caused by the ECU failing - but you could try one anyway - the last time a dealer fitted one it was a little under £5000.

Far better would be to have the fault investigated properly; the immobilizer will be in a different ECU to the engine one anyway - the body module IIRC.

If it cranks and doesn't fire without an immobilizer warning; it's far more likely to be a fuel-pressure issue.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - bazza
.....it was a little under £5000.

How much???? Just casually reading this interesting thread. Are you kidding?! Five grand For an ECU.... is that typical for a modern car or peculiar to Mazda? How can they justify that price? Just curious..
Baz

Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose

Yes; that was the bill for investigating the usual stalling fault, supplying, programming and fitting an ECU.

He wasn't too impressed, as it didn't fix it..... [The pump had gone.]

ECUs aren't always the "normal" £7-800. Some of them are getting cheaper - most are now getting into silly money as the option of repair is being denied by "potting" or gel-filled laser-cut units and one-shot coding prevents a secondhand one being used.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - rtj70
How can a second hand ECU cost £5000 - or was that with lots of time for investigation?

You could up until recently buy the previous model Mazda6 for around £14k probably less. And for that you get an entire car with all ECU ;-) List price on my Mazda6 2.0d Sport was only £19200.

In fact I think the new Mazda6 starts off from around £15k. As do a lot of cars like the new Mondeo (okay with a tiny engine for the size of car) but you get my point.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose

"Second-hand?" It was a new one from the dealer - I didn't see a complete breakdown on the bill - but they had it in the workshop for two weeks.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - rtj70
I meant to type replacement. Don't know where second hand came from ;-)

£5k is still shocking.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - catfish
Guys, going back a step to the oil pressure problem can you advise me.

I recently had my Turbo inter-cooler unit fail which cost a tidy sum to replace - £500 just for the part. Diagnosing this was easy due to the oil dripping out of the car onto my drive!

My garage said that this was done to "physical damage" that could have been caused by stone chippings etc. I saw the replaced cooler unit and it did indeed appear to have been damaged.

My question is do you you think that low oil pressure could have caused the cooler unit to "overheat" and crack as opposed to the stone chip theory.

Thanks in adavance for reading this post.

Edited by catfish on 18/02/2008 at 12:03

Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose

In a word - no. No connexion at all.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - nifreaky
I have a 2003 built Mazda6 TS2 136bhp.

I had the stalling problem from Sept 07 and in November it died completely. I didn't have any oil problems at all.

I brought it to the dealership and they told me that a new pump was required (£1500+) or it could be refurbished by Feathers Diesel for about £600 and a couple of weeks off the road.

A local Mazda independent specialist/mechanic said he could replace the valves for £350. Job was done next day.

However, I have noticed that the engine is idling roughly and fuel consmption is way up (280 miles between fills compared to 400 before pump problem). There also seems to be a bit more black smoke from the exhaust and power also seems reduced especially noticed in 5th gear.

The local independent now says that the injectors could need balanced/calibrated.

This is the first I have seen this forum or realised that there seems to be a common problem. My question is, does the valve replacement completely fix the problem or should I now look at getting the pump replaced by Delphi?
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
nifreaky

It doesn't sound like a typical pump fault. It's possible that something like an EGR operating hose has come off or similar. Sometimes; no matter how careful you are, faults arise when systems are moved and disturbed.

If your specialist has any info on the need for correction factors for these injectors, it would be handy to know, as I've not come across anything - yet.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - dunover
Hi guys, just purchased a mazda 6 ts2 diesel from a motor auction with 116,000 mileswith impecable service history. Just when i was about to drive the car home i noticed engine management light was on , when i drove the car it just seems to go up to about 2000 revs max. so you can imagine how slow that is.when you first start the car , it revs up normal but then seems to go into a limp mode, can you advise me further, on what you think this problem is and likely cost
thanks
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
dunover

Buying a common-rail at an auction is brave stuff. Any warranty?

Only 2000 revs seems a bit low, even for limp-home mode. Getting it plugged-in and the fault-codes read would be a good move. Change the fuel filter anyway.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - dunover
no warranty, car was left at auction cos i thought it would be going too slow on the moterway, going to have to pick it up in the next few days. do you think this could be the dreading fuel pump? when first started car seems to rev up fine, but then wont go above 2k revs, there is also a traction fault code coming up on dash.
Thanks 4 prompt reply earlier
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
dunover

That doesn't sound like a common fault. A TC fault makes more sense; if it thinks that it's got a spinning wheel, then it may well cut the revs.

A failed ABS/TC unit is also not good news....
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - dunover
Hmm, TC, traction control if im right in thinking, still doesnt make it any clearer, not reallya car man. However this bieng the case would it normally be an expensive repair?
thanks
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
dunover

Traction control cuts the engine power if the wheel-speed sensors detect wheel-spin.

You are going to need to get someone with the right equipment to interrogate the relevant control units to find out what's going on.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - dunover
Hi screwloose, wandering if you could shed some light, i had the car plugged in on the AA'S computer and they told me it was the camshaft position sensor that was the fault. i orderd one from the local mazda dealership and fitted it, for a few minutes the car seemed ok, but then cut the revs again.the aaguy did say, once the sensor had been fitted, the car would have to go on a diagnostics computer to clear the fault code, i have had the machine plugged in again from i local garage and they have cleared the fault but the problem still persists and car still in idle mode. the fault is still comming up as camshaft position sensor, any ideas?
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
dunover

Fault codes never refer to a faulty sensor - they refer to some problem with the signal, or the resistance of the circuit, or the implausibility of a relationship etc.

What was the exact code?
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - dunover
Machine reads: P0342 Generic camshaft position sensor- Bank 1 curcuit low input
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
dunover

Measure the resistance of the sensor wires back to ECU pins 55 and 81 doesn't exceed 1 Ohm. Check isolation from the shielding and that the shielding is earthed.

If you can get someone to scope the signal it should be a modified sine wave of 8v AC amplitude, 40ms period [at idle] with a double peak on every fourth wave.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - dunover
Hi, back again, still not cured. I took the car to a reputable electricians garage ho checked the components you mentioned. They all seem fine, the wiring from the camshaft position sensor back to the ecu unit. he seems to think the cambelt could be slipping or is loose. somebody has told me to change the crankshaft position sensor. what do you think, cant get into mazda dealers till april 8th onwards. any more suggestions?
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
dunover

Was the sensor's signal on the oscilloscope correct to those parameters; or was it low?

Did the cam sensor's signal show a correct relationship to the crank sensor's when overlaid? [That isn't the right code for an implausible relationship.]
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - dunover
Hi, he didnt put the car on oscilloscope apparantly, and i dont know if he checked both sensors, in relation to each other. I will take to dealers otherwise, i will be paying individual garages money to try to get to the bottom of the problem but then not quite. will keep you posted on what it is if ever found.
Thanks for your help
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
dunover

Consider a diesel specialist - clearly your electrical chap is way out of date.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - drivewell
I'm not an expert on these, but wonder if a sticking EGR valve would give those symptoms?
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - nifreaky
Just got the car back today. The diagnostics guy couldn't find anything amiss - 100% ok. He calibrated/reprogrammed the injectors just in case and the EGR was functioning properly.

Road test everything showed ok.

I reset the L/100km guage as I left the garage and by the time I got home (7 miles) it had settled at approx 10.7 which is better than the 14.2 that was on it when I left it in. I know this figure will fluctuate for a while though.

Now that it is working 100% (according to the computer) I am going to think about getting it remapped.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
Now that it is working 100% (according to the computer) I am going to think
about getting it remapped.


Yep; that should definitely finish it off.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - nifreaky
Sorry, that's what I was really meaning. ;) I really miss smiley icons and I should have put (sarcasm) after my remap comment.

Anyway, I'm off to Dublin (from Belfast) tomorrow for the night so I will be interested on how the fuel consumption will go.

Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - wessex
hi the saga continues, having had a loud clacking noise from the top of the engine i decided to remove the cylinder head to see if there had been any part of the turbo sucked into the cylinders. after 3 days of stripping out i managaed to get the cylinder head off only to find no real damage apart from the number 4 pot had on top of the piston 4 nice valve shaped marks in the carbon. now my question is how can this happen, is it normal or has the piston come into contact with the valves. took the valves out and they are not damaged. secondly should i just bight the bullet and buy a new engine or try to rebuild this one?

i hate mazdas lol

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 10/03/2008 at 12:42

Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
wessex

Exactly the same fault, same pot, as the one that I had that hit the head.

Measure the piston protrusions [deck heights] and you'll see #4 is higher than the rest. Nobody wanted to pay for further investigation; but I was working on the assumption that the big end bearings had spun into an elliptic mess.

Pull the bottom end apart - I'd be very interested in what you find on cyl #4.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - wessex
will do, probably going to get replacement engine £1500 for head and block bummer!!!
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose

The head may still be OK.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - wessex
yes i know but i think it prudent to get a replacement engine as when i took the head off i found one of the cam keepers had a slight crack in it, this was just above the number 4 pot!
incidently i checked the number 4 pot and it protrudes the same as the other 3 but when you put your fingers in the piston depression and pull up surprise surprise it moves a little bit more and there is an audible knock. looks like you were right! just ordered a replacement engine with 49,000 on the clock and most of the ancilliarys still attached. good job as i look through this thread my engine started to cut out and stall intermitantly thought it was just a bad batch of fuel. the pump looks like that was on the way out.
Still leaves me out of pocket by 1,800 pounds though.

will strip the engine down and let you know what i find.
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - wessex
just finished fitting new engine!! yipee thought i would have a look at the old one #4 piston bottom end bearing completley shot as we thought.
anyone thinking of changing an engine on a mazda6 don't!! i suggest go to the nearest garage buy your self some petrol and a box of matches and have a nice bonfire lol. it is a complete pig!


Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
wessex

That's useful to know; any sign of lack-of-lube damage elesewhere on the crank, or could this just be a bearing shell coming adrift?
Mazda6 Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - wessex
slight wear on camshft but that could be to do with milage of the engine, only took off sump will check rest of the engine when i have time.

wessex
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - captainb
I've just had a fuel pump failure on my TS2 '03 hatch with 106k. Similar situation to that described by others: occasional rough running (particularly first thing in the morning) stalling when coming to standstill after a run i.e. at roundabouts and junctions, loss of power.

Car has been serviced as per schedule at main dealer in Cornwall. Needed AA to recover car to garage when power lost completely. Over two weeks to sort problem - removed fuel pump which involves removing cam belt and was recommended to replace cam belt as a result. The garage also discovered a leak in the tensioner which was also replaced. Fuel pump sent somewhere in the Midlands for "reconditioning". Total bill over £1300! Oww!

Much better since, thank goodess, although I have noticed a reluctance to 'fire' first thing. I always wait for the glow plug light to go out before turning over engine but sometimes no firing even with some throttle. I can just about hear a quiet whirring sound for about 10 seconds after ignition turned on - fuel being primed??

I've been very happy with my 6 (apart from the above) and would probably buy again. I've not yet driven the new version diesel which I believe has the same engine as my current car. I did see a rumour about a new 175 bhp 2.2 litre diesel coming out towards the end of 2008. Might be worth the wait.

Captain B.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - serviceimpossible
I've just had a major failure on the M1. The '04 TS2 lost power and then suddenly hit full RPM, even when I took the keys out of the ignition on the hard shoulder it kept going. Called the fire brigade out because the engine running at full RPM was pouring oil smoke out across the motorway. Smoke filled the cabin of the car too with my kids in the back so my kids are now traumatised and no longer want to go in mummy?s car.

The car failed only 6 months ago with a clutch failure which was of course 2 months out of warranty so for £1K I had one fitted even though the car had done only 60,000 miles. I thought my bad luck was run. Then last week it started losing power again albeit intermittently. It was up for its annual service in 3 weeks and I thought I could nurse it to that before I traded it in. However it had one final surprise in hand.

Other damage is yet to be discovered however the radiator has disintegrated the electrics disconnected by the fire brigade and the 'dealer' has yet to suggest anything other than an investigation.

I drove one of these in Japan when I lived there and loved it. Mazda was by far the best customer service orientated car company I dealt with out there. I'll be writing letters too. No doubt I'll get fobbed off by the UK.

If Mazda is interested I have pictures of my four and two year olds wrapped in police blankets, screaming whilst watching the fire brigade in breathing apparatus give mummy?s car a shower.

Serviceimpossible.





Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
serviceimpossible

That's a classic catastrophic turbo failure. The engine runs away on the hot oil spraying into the inlet from the wreckage of the turbo unit. The blown radiator will likely be an intercooler that couldn't take the over-pressure.

At least your kids won't have to worry about riding in that car again - it's way past economic repair. An engine, turbo, intercooler and all the myriad other pieces needed will easily top £8,000 - ring a specialist Mazda breaker or two and take the best offer.

You might be able to trade it in to the dealer broken - worth a shot; sales are terrible.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - serviceimpossible
Screwloose

£10K to put it right was an interesting conversation with the dealer. I suggested a substantial Mazda contribution would be a good idea as the car has a perfect dealer service record. Can only hope to make something of a poor situation.

Any advice on Mazda breakers I should contact. Any in the Yorkshire area?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
SI

What was the dealers explanation as to the root cause of the failed turbo? Is this just a different manifestation of the all-too-common oil pressure problem? [Turbos run at 100,000rpm and will self-destruct if their oil-flow isn't adequate.]

It would be interesting to know if the pick-up strainer was blocked. I've recently seen a, plausible, suggestion that they may block with combustion carbon leaking past the injector seats.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Robin the Technician
Hi,
It might be worth talking to your insurance company as to a claim. I had my Peugeot 406 get the engine filled with flooded water and bent the conrods. My insurance got the engine replaced and I had to make a contribution as the mileage was around 70k. Still a lot cheaper than getting it done myself.

hope this helps

Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - galwaytt
SL - seeing as you mentioned it............I have a Mazda 2.0 unit on the floor, gathering dust.........that's because that's all it's good for, right now. 88k miles, fsh, got the flashing light thing once, - checked oil, and all seemed well. 1 week later and....a bit of a rattle.........I actually thought it was the flywheel, and had the engine pulled out to find that indeed, the DMF was for the bin. However, my mechanic wasn't convinced, and pulled the sump. Surprise, surprise, no 4 Big end was toast !

So, right now, I'm looking at a blown engine, DMF and clutch, potential pump issue (i learned from this thread the symptoms of an impending pump problem, which I think is en-route..............), and the turbo - well, if it survives all the rest, I'd be shocked, tbh.............realistically, the car is a write-off, which really, really, annoys me. I bought it to replace an 07 Galaxy Tdci with ECU issues, thinking that I was getting legendary Mazda reliability - oh dear............I guess there's no comparison with my 1990 MX-5, then...............

So, what I want to know is - is the Mazda RF engine re-buildable? I've been told alternately that the crank can/cannot be reconditioned (nitrided, or case-hardened?). If I do fork out £1700 to re-con the engine, is likely to be any good, or merely postponing the inevitable?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - galwaytt
SL - one other thing, can the engine from the 6 be used in the MPV ? both are RF series, but there are some oil filter location differences.........if I found a 6 crank, could I use it in the MPV? And is it the oil pump that's the actual culprit? My local guy suspects the oil pickup is too close to sump bottom and is picking up debris....................
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
galwaytt

Sorry; missed your latest post. Not sure on that; try a good reconditioner like Ivor Searle - they are about the only people that would know.

I'd also be interested to know their view on whether the reported combustion gas leaks past the injector base-washers are clogging the pick-up with carbon. Was your oil pickup clagged?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Pugugly
Locked and Volumized at what seems a natural break.

Vol 2 - can be found here.

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=62107&...6

Edited by Pugugly on 09/04/2008 at 23:01

 

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