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Mazda Mazda 6 (2002 - 2007) - Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2)  
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - David_Hill

***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 3 *****

Hello All.
I was the proud owner of a Mazda6 TS2 until Monday Afternoon. 03 Plate 5Speed Diesel. 55k miles.

The oil warning light cam on less than a mile from home.
I stopped and checked the oil level (after waiting the precribed 5 minutes in the manual)
Oil was fine. restarted engine and got within 100 feet of home when dash lit up like a christmas tree and the engine cut out.

I got the RAC to take it to local Mazda who have just reported:
Engine siezed, oil pump problem £6000 please.

Is this related in anyway to this thread and do I have any amunition to get this fixed by Mazda (preferably for nothing!)

Many thanks

David Hill.

Vol One is :- HERE:-

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 25/08/2008 at 00:36

Tags: technical issues oil damaged engine legal and consumer advice

Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
David

Sorry to hear of - yet - another victim. Yes; it's all too familiar - as you'll have seen from the foregoing.

Good luck with your claim - but if Mazda start paying for all these engine failures, they'll be going the same way as NSU.

Do ask them to explain the exact cause[s] of the failure - it would be nice to know their take on the various theories.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - sbp
Hi Screwloose. I am new to this discussion thread re Mazda 6 probs. have been reading all the comments re oil pump probs having come to the site through a link. Now registered and would appreciate your comment on my vehicle's probs.

I have an ex Mazda staff 6 TS2 136, 1st reg Sept. 04, purchased May 05, 6505 on clock. Sept. 07, MOT, 45000, emmissions OK. March 08, 46814, loss of initial power and smoke from exhaust when pulling away from junctions etc. Into Mazda dealer for check, diagnose turbo and intercooler problem, replaced both for £2525, with Mazda Cust Serv paying 70%. I am chasing them for more. Dealer says to run for 250 miles to get rid of lying oil in turbo and keep check on oil level.

At 250, still have loss of power and smoke, oil level on stick slightly above full, also now have annoying whine from turbo that sounds like a police siren. Into dealer, checked everything, "everything as should be", suggest run for 500 - 1000 miles, keep check on oil level.

Decided to get 2nd opinion, visited local turbo specialist, "we are well aware of Mazda 6 turbo issues". Should'nt have whine and should not be losing power or smoke, must have been fitted wrong or wrong manufactured unit. Could not test at time of visit, can do mid May.

At 1000, still have loss of power, smoke and siren whine, oil level on stick still slightly above full. Into dealer, 3 hours check everything. Found "old code on EGR, have reset to new", booked in for follow on check May 8th.

2nd opinion with local auto elec, "what coding????????. never heard of it" suggests getting full written report and discussing further. Requested from dealer. Not happy but says will supply.

Would appreciate your comments and any guidance.


Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
sbp

Too timeshort for a detailed answer until later; ['95 Brava to sort - the excitement....] but the EGR system should have been their first check for low-speed LOP and black[?] smoke?

Turbos shouldn't whine; unless there's a leak, you'll need another [better] one.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
sbp

Now that the customers have left me alone, some further questions.

What was the colour of the smoke and for how long did it exhibit before they changed the turbo/intercooler - and why both?

Did the oil light ever come on?

Was this a brand-new turbo in a Mazda box, or a dodgy rebuild sourced by the dealer?

By "code" did they mean a fault code they'd overlooked, or a software update for the ECU?

This has all the hallmarks of a botched initial diagnosis being covered-up by increasingly desperate bullshine and flannelling. I'd be concerned if it were a turbo screech, rather than a boost leak, as they don't do that for long before a catastrophic failure - which can easily take the engine with it.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - sbp
Colour - Black smoke
They checked the emmissions for MOT at approx. 45000, and reported no issues as stated on the MOT form. The first time I noticed the pulling away lack of power and slight dark smoke from exhaust was approx. 46200. This got progressively worse. Took car into dealer approx. 46814. their report says:
"Investigated fault. R/tested initially-witnessed smoke from exhaust. No lack of power. Turbo working but slight whine. Removed turbo pipe found excessive oil. Also found oil on surrounding intake pipes. Turbo contamination causing smoke and intercooler also cracked and leaking oil will contribute to fault. Advise to replace turbo and relating parts and intercooler and relating parts."

The oil light has never come on.

I left the car for the dealer to replace as neccessary and did not see any box. However, I have a list of parts used - TURBOCHARGER RF5C13700, COOLER INTER RF5C13565A, plus of course all other parts used - gaskets, pipes etc.

I was told "the EGR had an old code, which we have updated". cannot comment on wether they overlooked. Did not mention ECU update. Have asked dealer for full written report, which although initially reluctant have agreed to supply as soon as possible.

Out in car today, have still noticed same problem - lack of power when wanting to pull away, split second later it does respond and then the black smoke.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
sbp

I've yet to see a turbo oil leak that produces black smoke - always blue/grey. It's normal for the intake pipes on these - and other - turbo systems to be almost dripping in oil. Turbos have no need of oil seals in the conventional sense and often spray oil mist.

So it looks like all you had wrong was a malfunctioning EGR, or intake, valve - and still have. It's all part of a complex 6 vacuum-solenoid intake control system on these - and, for that reason, often shyed away from by dealer's staff.

They will have to address the fact that they have manifestly failed to rectify the initial fault. Then they must urgently find and rectify the source of the noise - hopefully a boost leak.

As you are in touch with Mazda Customer Services; it might be a good plan to insist that they send their staff engineer to inspect this debacle; as the dealer sounds completely out of his depth.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - sbp
Screwloose

Thanks mate. Will contact Mazda and let you know how I get on.

sbp
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - sbp
Hi Screwloose and/or anybody else that would like to comment. Here's an update and seeking advice.

Took car into dealer on May 8th for 2 week check following "re-setting EGR unit old code". Car still has originally reported fault, i.e. initial lack of power and then power with heavy smoke from exhaust.

Dealer wanted to do an number of checks but promised return of car latest 4.00pm, however, found EGR valve malfunctioning and would like their engineer to keep car overnight to check cold start. 9th - reported EGR valve needs replacing and would cost £352, however, Mazda have agreed to pay 60%, not 70% as for turbo and intercooler, as car is another month old. Argued as fault reported 6 weeks ago and dealer agreed to give further 10%.

Got car back Sat. 10th am and feels like a new car.

Questions - Could the EGR valve have been replaced at same time as turbo etc and therefore have cost less? Does a faulty EGR valve affect a turbo enough to have to have the turbo etc to be replaced? Should this faulty valve have been picked up sooner through EMS check and/or diagnostic check? Is there some form of Ombudsman or Auto trade authority that oversees/arbitrates customer complaints? as I am fully committed to claiming back some of my outlay if the information I gather prompts that action.

Any other guidance you can give would be very appreciated.

SBP
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose

Whether the EGR should have been changed at the same time isn't the issue - it's whether the turbo was faulty at all?

All your symptoms pointed to a straightforward stuck EGR valve fault. Nothing else.

Should the dealer have fixed it in one go - yes. Not a difficult fault to diagnose.

Put that point to Mazda and find out if the garage is a member of the RMIF - they have a conciliation service. [Don't hold out too much hope....]
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - xenoman
I've got similar problems with my Mazda 6 53 plate 130k on the clock full mazda service history for first 120,000 miles. Engine warning light came on three weeks ago total power failure took it to local garage who contacted Mazda they sugested replacing the injector seals to cure fault misfire on clylinder 3.

Get car back warning light off 400 miles later in traffic light comes on again, back to the garage back on the scanner fault on cylinder 3 again, garage contact mazda you state can do a diagnostic test for 60 quid to find the fault no problem. Dropped of at Perry's Preston authorised Mazda dealer on Monday 28th April.

Returned today with same intermitent fault and a £450 bill, the diagnostic test showed misfire on cylinder 3, they've dragged out the wiring loom blamed a damaged wire as light intermitent all the wires fine on inspection, then it's a dodgy fuel claim, or timing chain slipping or possible fuel pump problems so therefore no actual fault diagnosed when challenged about the bill and given the information I've learned from this site. They said they are aware of this issue with the values and it most likely that. I asked the guy why he was charging me £450 for the privalge of telling him the probable fault.

I've spoken to Feather Diesel Service's in Halifax they are the company Mazda send all these faulty pumps to, they seem to think that it's the normal mazda 6 valve issue given the fact it's cut out, pumped out black smoke when setting off and ran like a bag of spanners for a while.

The quoted £425 for a new valve tested and fitted in the aprroved Denso fashion pump removed from the car courriered too Halifax and back to the local garage to be fitted which gives you a warranty, or £160 to have it fitted in situ without a Warranty from Denso with the pump still connected to the car.

if you have any similar problems the number for them is 01422 387800 and the bloke I spoke to was really helpful and they get loads of them sadly. I really hope that this is the reason the problems I've been having does anyone else think it could be anything else
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - dieseldaz
Hello screwloose-thought i would reply to your threads as you seem very knowledgeable about the diesel 6 problems,I have a 52 plate 2.0 diesel 6 with the same pinking noise as other people,Serviced at 75000 (big one with cam belt ) and oil changes ever 6k(i get the oil for free through work )
Only recently have i noticed this pinking or diesel knock that occures only on start up when cold,when engine warms up-no problem but I have always had another problem-when the car is left on a hill pointing down overnight,the engine starts with clouds of white smoke which clears quickily,changed glow plugs(tested first) but to no avail,having read the varios threads from other 6 owners,I have now started to question the HP pump in the tank.
On cold starts the enhine starts first time no stalling but runs lumpy about 1250rpm giving the impression that its misfiring and running on 3 pots but when warm all is well,would really apprieciate any contributions to this problem

Many Thanks
Dieseldaz
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
Dieseldaz

The HP pump is the belt-driven one; no LP tank pump used on this model - more's the pity....

I'd say that you may have an injector/seal fault - and maybe the beginning of the pump-valve problem too.

Get a specialist diesel firm to do an injector base-seal and leak-off quantity test first.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - dieseldaz
Thanx for your reply Screwloose,just booked the car in with Feather Diesels at Halifax for a diagnosis on Monday-The very helpful man said thier are many many problems with the Mazda 6 common rail system-obviously a diagnosis over the phone isnt perfect but he reckons the Suction control Valve is at fault,they will diagnos-change the valve in si-tu if faulty for about £230 ( £700 at mazda).The diagnosis takes roughly 1 hour for which they charge £63 which is waived if you have the valve changed,I found the company so helpful compared with my local Mazda dealer (Lythgoe),
I hope this thread is of use to other 6 owners and I will of course keep you all updated with Mondays outcome, Many Thanks Screwloose your contribution has been invaluable !!
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
daz

Good luck with getting it sorted - you've certainly taken it to the right place, Feather Diesel have a contract with Mazda to collect and repair all the failing pumps, so they're well experienced. Get them to check the injector seats too.

I still think it's dishonourable of Mazda to continually fob this problem off to outside contractors - they should sell exchange pumps and repair it in-house under goodwill warranty.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - dieseldaz
Hi screwloose-wanted to give you an update,Went to feather diesels on Monday morning and had car looked at,because the engine was warm it wouldn't make the pinking noise-he thought there was a large amount of black smoke when revved hard and questioned the EGR valve,we then agreed to put the car on the diagnosis machine and he suggested blanking off the EGR valve completley with a blanking plate as they are nothing but trouble,the diagnosis machine found no faults at all,but he reset the learning function of the ECU,now the car is a lot quieter,no black smoke on hard acceleration but the pinking noise is still there,he charged me for putting the car on the machine only £63 + VAT, he was sceptical about the suction control valve as my car doesnt display the usual faults-as the engineer stated,this is the cheapest course of action to start with(not very often that they talk you out of having work done ).
As it stands now,I am going to drop the car off Sat morning and leave it with them all w/end so he can start it from cold-sorry its took so long to update you and I will of course update you next week
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - rtj70
After you checked the oil level (which was fine) did the light come back on? Bearing in mind the oil warning light is a oil pressure warning and not low oil then this was indicating a pressure problem (like a problem with the pump). Yes they come on when oil very low but it's a pressure problem indicator - i.e. can indicate something serious I would think.

So if the last mile no oil warning light on at all then maybe you have ground to say it was a glitch and you were going to get it looked into. If you continued to drive with the warning light on and the oil was not low then (I'm no expert) would think they may stand their ground unfortunately.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - David_Hill
Hi,
The light came on, I stopped within 30 feet as I was near the local shops and could pull in.
checked oil etc.
restarted and went last 6-700 yards to home had just turned corner to my road and oil warning light, engine check light and oil sedimentor light came on and engine stopped.

We ushed car in neutal out of road and to pavement.

Thats the exact sequence as far as I recall

Cheers
David
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - rtj70
No idea what Mazda will say but because the oil light came on (and it was not due to low oil) then they might ask why you continued driving?

Also because this vehicle is out of warranty... be prepared for the worst. Maybe a recon engine and pump will be a lot cheaper?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - wessex
Hi guys, Well even more problems with 'Christine' thats what i have called her!!! had a few problems other than the engine suspension bushes and the like. So finally got her in for MOT on Monday passed with flying colours Yippeee. Then on way home had the turbo runaway on me luckily i recognised what it was and managed to stop it by baging it into 5th gear and slamming on brakes engine stalled. On investigation found the deisel return pipe conected to part of the vaccuume control system which some how managed to fill sump up with fuel took 8 ltrs out. Put the pipes on correctly and engine running fine.
went out looking for a new car today did about 20 miles no problem then refuled and within a mile had the engine light come on. engine died max revs 1500. turn engine off for 1min engine starts fine running normally pull away and within half a mile engine light on again. luckily i was just next to the mazda dealer who plugged in the computer and reset multiple fault codes and calibrated the fuel injectors. He said if the light comes on again that i would need to take it back and get the injectors set back to factory settings as each injector has different voltages settings.
any way left mazda and within three mile light came on again!!! managed to limp home.
my question is could this be doggy fuel? injector problem or something to do with fuel line beeing cross conected?

wessex
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
wessex

How on earth did the fuel return line get connected to the sump during an MOT???

Doesn't sound like injector correction factors - what other codes were stored? A manifold awash with diesel can't have helped things like the MAP sensor.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - wessex
didn't happen during MOT happend during engine replacement only after MOT did i find out. it was connected to the vaccuume pump . had maf sensor faults which were reset and didn't come back.

what is my next port of call?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
wessex

Ahh, I see; self-inflicted wounds.... [Not surprising given the rat's nest of pipes and cables.]

Really; it all hinges on which code has returned. The overspeed might have affected something; check that nothing has been blown off and there aren't any boost leaks in hoses and intercooler.

Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - wessex
not sure if that would cause problem? when the light clears it will idle fine and rev all the way no matter how long you sit there but as soon as you move you get the light.

is there a sensor in the inlet manifold that could have got dirty as far as i can remember i can only think of the one form the air intake and one on the fuel rail will take it apart in the morning and see what i get.

if i had known then what i know now i would have sold it as spares or repair, as retail you only get 3500 to 4000 and part x looking at 2500 to 3000 not worth putting right.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - wessex
oh and just to compound my luck!! jumped into my escort deisel tonight and low and behold started chucking out loads of black smoke and rough idlingsnip What else can go wrong aaarghh

Edited by Pugugly on 09/04/2008 at 21:06

Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
wessex

The MAP sensor is a tiny little thing behind the N/S headlight. Maybe the MAF got damaged??

Did the injector loom with the calibration resistors come with this engine, or is it the one from the old unit?

You're right about the economic values - never repaired one yet. All sold to the breaker.

Don't know what Escort; but EGR?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - wessex
looking into the engine bay i have two valve type things just to the left of the near side headlight with hoses going to them one valve is red and the other green is this what you are on about or is it the one inside the air filter? or is it one i have not noticed?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
wessex

I think those are two of the EGR solenoids - multiple hoses on them?

I may be wrong [never had to touch one] but the MAP sensor is tiny with only one hose coming up from below[?] one 3-wire plug and two ears with a bolt through each.

A code read is going to be needed here.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - galwaytt
SL- I just tried Ivor Searle and they tell me they don't do this engine.........a bit odd, I thought given that there lots of fleet 6's out there..........

I've also been given different feedback from different reconditioners - 2 said the crank can be re-ground , 2 said it can't (because of hardening issues) - so, what to do??
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
galwaytt

If Ivor still doesn't do them, that speaks volumes. They are a very straight firm and they won't get involved with anything that might affect their reputation.

They must feel that these engines can't be satisfactorily reconditioned to their high standard.

I've no info on the crank situation; no garage gets involved in that work any more; but it's not unusual for reconditioners to differ - some will bodge anything if there's a quick buck in it.

Either get the crank ground and sell it; or search for a good used unit..... If there is one.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - wessex
ok update spoke to a few diesel specialists only to find out that mazda wont give them the coding details for the injectors! So rang Mazda and they cant fit me in until next thursday!
Any how i was thinking about what you said about the wiring to the injectors and started looking into it a bit more and low and behold found a loose wire, swapped it over with my old one and hey presto result car now works as advertised!!!! On way to ford show room to get a mondeo had enough of Mazda 6.
also fixed escort dirty MAF having a fantastic day!!
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - prm72
Not frying pan to fire i hope.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - wessex
i know what you mean but with fords not every part is in the thousands to replace!!
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
wessex

Glad to hear that it's running - for now!

I've heard that the petrol Mondeo is very nice........
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - wessex
what about the diesel?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
wessex

While some rave about them [what's happened to cheddar?] others have had less satisfactory experiences.......

What's the point of a modern diesel at £117 a litre?

Edited by Screwloose on 10/04/2008 at 15:18

Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - wessex
point taken?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - qxman {p}
Wessex

A colleague of mine has had a 2005 Mondeo diesel from new. He shares an office with me and I have heard an almost continuous tale of woe about this car for the last three years. Ford have had it in countless times to fix various parts of the fuel injection and its never been 100%. I think hes just waiting for it to reach the end of warranty to sell it. Another colleague has had a diesel Languna (old one not sure of year) that has been a can of worms too. Whatever you buy I would take care!
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - wessex
what ever i buy will have to have a warranty as i dont want to go down the same route again has left me well out of pocket and very fed up! just spent two weeks of holiday fixing car.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - wessex
well just bought a 06 plated diesel mondeo with three years warranty hope that covers me lol.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
wessex

Hope you have better luck than with the Mazda; budget to bin it before that warranty expires.

[In a couple of weeks: "I've just bought this nice Mazda from a Ford dealer and I was driving along....]
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - gw1
As another victim of engine failure, oil light which was only a flicker then banging from the engine I have taken it to my local garage who have taken the sump off and he sees damage to the big ends.
Looking to take engine out to see if damage to crank shaft is there anything else he should be aware of. He hopes it will only need new big end shells and maybe the crank shaft reground is this possible. My car has only done 61000 miles and only 3000 miles since the last oil change and service so to be told you have no oil in it was a total surprise.He now has another Mazda 6 diesel engine in with oil blowing out of the turbo could this also be a problem with mine as why the oil was low this car has only done 63000 miles.
Second hand engine are rediculous prices and are you buying more trouble.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
gw1

Yet another.... [There was a time that I got a load of flak for merely suggesting there was a BIG problem with these...]

You may have to fit a new crank if the old one isn't grindable, but beware damage elesewhere - that other turbo bearing failure is very likely to be pressure related and yours could be going the same way too; it would explain where your oil went.

Any sign of a clogged oil pick-up? Any carbon pieces in the sump?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - ToTheEndOfTheRoad
Hi, new to this site. Strewth there seems to be a lot of issues with the Mazda 6 diesel fuel pump, which I believe is a Denso? Does anyone know if the same problems are happening with the Mazda 3 diesel?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose

Fortunately; that's a different unit.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - ToTheEndOfTheRoad
Thanks very much for that, thats good news. Would you know if this is one of the better CR engines, average or otherwise?

Thanks in advance.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose

Based on the fact that I've never worked on one, or ever heard of a problem with them, then they would appear to be OK.

Not many about though.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - georgemCan
Hi, I'm new to the forum, have read it thoroughly and quite frankly it got me very worried. I am about to order a new 2008 Mazda6 diesel (station wagon) and I'd like to know whether anybody knows if this pump issue I read so much about here is still an issue with the 2008 model.
I'd really hate to go through the same nightmare as so many people have reported here only because I failed to do the due dilligence!

Your advice is much appreciated!
Thanks in advance,
George
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
George

Very good question; only time will tell if the problems were carried over - Mazda's bland assurances can no longer be replied upon.

I haven't even seen one of the new ones yet - for obvious reasons, my fleet customer isn't buying any more.....
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - glowplug
Hi all,

Has any of this been reported on/to Watchdog?

I wondered if it would do any good?

Steve.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - kirklander73
myself, well i allways thought that you could rely on jap cars, prpoerly messed my next choice of car up!! does ANY manufacturer make a good honest reliable car anymore?? or should i buy a old well waxoiled Datsun?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - vulcan7
Just buy a petrol 6
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - danyosan
I own a 03 TS2 2L diesel and I've had it for nearly 2 years now. Theres been a few little problems with it, but one big thing was the gearbox going at 58K miles. Luckily it was still under warranty.

But reading this thread has me worried. Something someone posted earlier in thread has happened to me as well, maybe 4/5 times over the past year. If the car has been idling for a sustained period of time (3-4 minutes) and I then put it into gear and to drive off, there is a complete loss of power, limited to around 2000 rpm and then the engine cuts out, with the engine management light showing. I then wait about 20 seconds, start the engine up again, and everything is fine.

I do a good bit of mileage (my work is 45 miles away) and I'm a bit worried now after reading this thread. Should I be?

Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - drivewell
sticky EGR valve?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - Screwloose
danyosan

Idling-related issues are often the first sign of the HP pump going. As Mazda are saying it's suction valves failing; that would fit with the symptom, as the suction side of the pump probably works best with a few revs on.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? - danyosan
danyosan
Idling-related issues are often the first sign of the HP pump going. As Mazda are
saying it's suction valves failing; that would fit with the symptom as the suction side
of the pump probably works best with a few revs on.


Would you recommend some measures to be taken now then. It is going for new brake discs shortly so I could get things done then.

Also, will I be OK holding onto it or should I get rid ASAP.

Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - gw1
I have now seen enough cases out there with the same problem as mine as to the total engine failure of the Maxda 6 diesel engine.
I have tried the nice route with Mazda customer services as to getting some help with cost of the repair of my engine. But they will not help, they are not aware of any problems with turbo unit whatsover! they are not aware of any big end failure on no.4!
Turbo fails sucks engine oil out sump.
They have stated that as my car servicing was not on time over 30,000 miles ago this is the reason why my car has failed now. And as my car is not being repaired by a Mazda dealer they cannot help.
I am now looking at going the watchdog route to highlight the problems with this particular engine no person should touch this car with a barge pole as there are just too many cases out there. I will be trying to get hold of turbo reconditioners to see just how many are being repaired as well as engine reconditioners to just how many are going wrong.
MAZDA BOOM BOOM this should be the advertisement.
I wonder whether Watchdog will take this case up.

gw1
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Galad
A neighbour has just bought a Mazda5 2.0-litre MZR-CD (143ps). I haven't mentioned the problems with the 6 yet but do they share the same engines and HP pumps?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Galad
Just browsing the Mazda website and the new 6 diesel engine is described as 2.0 M-TDi (140ps) - a new engine replacing the old 6?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Screwloose
Galad

The 5 is indeed the same - I think that there's a case in Vol 1.

Haven't seen this new engine yet; but it certainly looks like the MZR has been quietly dropped....

Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - danyosan
danyosan
Idling-related issues are often the first sign of the HP pump going. As Mazda are
saying it's suction valves failing; that would fit with the symptom as the suction side
of the pump probably works best with a few revs on.


Would you recommend some measures to be taken now then. It is going for new brake discs shortly so I could get things done then.

Also, will I be OK holding onto it or should I get rid ASAP
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Screwloose

Nothing is certain in this life; but I wouldn't be surprised if it's going to need a costly pump overhaul in the next 10,000 miles.

If you were thinking of changing it anyway; this would seem a good time.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - danyosan
Well thats the problem. I was hoping it would last me another 2 years as I am in the process of building a house. I might look into selling it privately and buying another for a similar price. Any recommendations? I average around 450 miles a week.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Screwloose

Trade it in to a Mazda dealer for a petrol one. That'll stitch them up nicely.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - danyosan
Petrol is not really a goer I'm afraid, I do too much mileage.
I've been recommended to go for a peugeot diesel (poss a 307), would this be a good option?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Screwloose

Ehh? Petrol has been cheaper overall for years - it must be a no-brainer with the current price spread?

Touch a French car at your peril.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - smokescreen
Check car by car breakdown for the 307 above, french build quality has gone down the toilet lately.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - the engineer
Hi Screwloose

Thanks for all your info about Mazda 6 diesel problems! I have a 53 plate one with 47000miles on the clock. It hasn't cost me anything so far apart from servicing and tyres but looks as though I should change it whilst I am winning! Your advice is to get a petrol but having tried one I would miss the overtaking grunt of the diesel - I think people buy diesels these days for that rather than economy - how things have changed since my 205 GRD.

If I was to go for an 07 or 57 old model 6 do you think it will not suffer the pump or lubrication problems of the earlier cars?

I have a few thoughts on the lubrication problem. Most garages use a universal oil in both petrol and diesel cars for economy and so mechanics don't put the wrong oil in cars. One of the main differences with a true diesel oil is that it has more detergent to break down carbon deposits. I have used Morris XHD-FE 10W-40 oil in my diesel cars for many years and when I have had occasion to look inside the engines I have been staggered at how clean they are. (Renault 21 2.1TD new camshaft at 150,000miles and cracked sump on my Alfa 156 2.4JTD). I have supplied this oil to my Mazda dealer for servicing my 6 and they think I am mad but I wonder if that would prevent build up of carbon on the suction pipe even if some carbon was getting past the injector seals.

If I decide to keep my old car I thought the most sensible thing for me (and others) to do would be to fit a new suction valve in the HP pump before it packs up, runs dry and does other damage requiring a new or reconditioned pump. I have spoken to Feather Diesel and my Mazda dealer about that and it is way too sensible (and cheap?) for them to consider. If that can be done with the pump in situ (in super clean conditions) for about £150 it would save a lot of people mega money. If changing the suction valve does not affect the high pressure side of the pump I don't see the need for it to go on a test rig for the setting and calibration that Feather charge £200 for.

I wanted to talk to someone at Delphi/Denso about this approach but I am blowed if I can find any way to contact them in the UK. I have tried all the websites and search engines but only come up with general company info. Do you have a phone number, web site or email address?


Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Screwloose
the engineer

Never tried changing the valves in-situ; but it sounds a very reasonable idea in theory.

I've not seen a very late one fail yet - mainly because the lease fleet that had most of them has stopped buying them....

I agree about the benefits of HD oils; long service intervals also can't help if there's combustion-derived carbon fragment build-up occuring - this is one engine that wants it's semi-synth draining overnight, from red hot, every 6000 max. Maybe they should bring back flushing oil?

Whether the oil detergents could, or should be expected to, cope with the effects of a combustion leak is a moot question. The quantities can be staggering; many Merc CDis have a small bucketful neatly cast under the engine shield. Getting at the injectors is nearly a Kango job!

Delphi are in Warwick:-

dieselaftermarket.delphi.com/asiapacific/Contact+U...m

I've also found County Diesel (Leicester) 01162 600096 useful for oddball diesel sub-parts in the past. They're quite helpful and do mail-order.

Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - danyosan
I have also been looking at a 2006 2.0 TDCi (red eye) ford focus. Is it the same engine thats in this or would I be okay with this?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Screwloose

Fortunately; Ford didn't use the MZR-CD in the Focus.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Trapperjem
Here's another sorry tale.

I bought a 52 reg Mazda 6 2.0d TS2 estate in June 07 with 42K on the clock from a Mazda dealer with service history all by them. It was a good car and really nice to drive with all the toys and leather seats. They said they gave it a full service before delivery and it came with 1 year Mazda warranty

I usually keep my cars a long time, 8 to 10 years, so I always have an extra oil change down every 5000 miles. I had this done and then the full service done at 50,000 to get it back on the normal service schedule. I had this done at my local independent garage that I've used for 20years and know he does it properly.

In May this year, 08, at just under 53k mileage, I was coming up to a roundabout when suddenly there was a loud metallic rattling. There were no warning lights on or any other indication of anything wrong. I had checked the oil about 1000 miles earlier and added about a litre. The Mazda rescue man came and said I shouldn't drive it so I'm relayed from Norwich back to London

After 4 weeks of expensive investigation and delay at a different Mazda dealership, £450, who said it looked like mechanical breakdown, and an inspection by an engineer sent by the warranty people I'm told I need a new engine as it suffered from lack of lubrication and number 4 cylinder is damaged and big end gone. Sound familiar? But the warranty refuse to pay anything! The say I broke the warranty contract by having the service done by a non-Mazda garage, I didn't check my oil and I drove it in a failed state.They say the EU BER legislation doesn't cover extended used warranties only new car warranties. Is this true? Anyway they seem to have won because there's no way I can prove that I topped the oil up or even checked it. They obviously know this is a common faullt and have this get-out.

I'm having a complete second-hand 07 engine put in at the moment by my local independent garage. This engine is a guaranteed 18000 miles.

I bought a Mazda because they were supposed to be reliable, worng. I bought it from a dealer to get the warranty: wrong and useless!. Is there anyway I can get some money out of the Mazda warranty? Should I get rid of this as soon as I can afford too?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Screwloose
Trapperjem

The answer may lie in the oil. If the conjecture that this problem is caused by the oil pick-up blocking with carbon debris from leaking injector seals; then there may be some evidence available from oil analysis - particularly the contents of the filter.

It's a routine procedure for many fleets, only requires a few drops and is widely available; a chemical analysis that found such contamination would provide powerful evidence that the cause was not low oil.

As to the small-print of extended warranties - why do you think that they so seldom pay out....?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Trapperjem
Thanks for the info Screwloose,

I don't think I can do that check now as the car has been moved from the Mazda garage to my local with the engine top and bottom dismantled. I'll just have to pay out, I guess.

Would it be best to get rid of the car as soon as I can?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Screwloose
You may find that the oil filter is still fitted; that's all you'd need.

As to getting rid - I would.

Edited by Screwloose on 15/06/2008 at 14:38

Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Malcolm8484
Another one bites the dust!!!

2003 (03) Mazda 2.0 TS2. Regularly serviced by the same Mazda Dealership. Full oil service at 50K. Engine and turbo failed at 56K.

Oil light flickered on a roundabout. Checked Oil and level was normal. Light flickered again. Rang Mazda dealership who confirmed it was probably in need of a software upgrade or it could be the sensor in the sump and confirmed it was OK to drive over the weekend but book in for following week. Advice obviously all now denied!

Next morning, same roundabout loud squeal, loss of power, engine failure.

Mazda garage have quoted £9,350.73 to fit a new turbo and engine and Mazda UK are willing to pay 40% which means that having finished the finance payments last year we would now have to pay a further £5,610.43 to fix a car that afterwards will have a trade in value of £4,450. Alternatively it is only worth scrap value.

I guess Mazda expect us to take the loss and walk away which in my present state of mind I am not prepared to do.

We tried the insurance route as suggested by the garage. An engineer from our insurers inspected the vehicle and wrote: ?Engine has failed. Oil light came on, clutch juddering. Repairers have checked oil, level below minimum. Turbo has broken up, swarf present in oil. Engine is starting to seize due to oil starvation. New engine, clutch and turbo required. In my opinion this is mechanical failure and not our liability.?

A lawyer friend has now suggested getting an independent inspection report to detail exactly what caused the failure. We can then decide whether or not to move forward legally. Personally I do not understand the technicalities so would love for someone to tell me "this is meant to do this but failed and so this happened, this got hot, broke up and did this etc"

So my question is can anyone recommend a Mazda or Diesel Engine Specialist in the West Sussex/Hampshire area? I've started searching but wondered if there are people that specialise in this sort of diagnosis. Or am I best just using my AA membership and calling them in?

Sorry one more question. During the warranty period the turbo intercooler failed and was replaced by the same garage. I have no paperwork as none was given it was just done under warranty and returned. Anyone know if they are duty bound to provide that information if requested? Just wondering if the two could be related even though seperated by a couple of years?

Thanks for any replies and to those that have already posted.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 30/06/2008 at 18:51

Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Screwloose
Malcolm

That's the second case I've seen this afternoon. Isn't it amazing that Mazda hasn't heard of even one...?

The only catastrophic engineer that I know of in that area is Douglas Wragg. Contact details:-

www.sew.org.uk/database/automotive_experts.htm
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - kilchurn
Hi all

Mazda 6 2.0D TS2 Estate (52 plate).
Its just recently started to idle very badly when first started, but runs fine when warms up a bit. Also sounds a bit clattery for the first few hundred yards!!
Oil level ok, never moves downward, no dash warning lights.

Having read all your comments I checked the EGR and it seams to be slightly open (as I can see clean part of the shaft) when the car is on idle.

Question : Should the EGR Valve be closed when idling and only open when revs are a bit higher?

I hope this is not the start of the HP pump issues.....
Thanks for any advice
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Screwloose
kilchum

The EGR system is a right pig's breakfast on these and could well be open at odd times - it will probably be open a little at idle.

Any idling fault is not a good sign; idle is where the pump valve fault first starts to show.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Malcolm8484
Screwloose

Many thanks for your reply. I guess if Mazda actually admitted there was a problem with cars built at that time then they would face a huge liability. All the time they officially do not have a problem, they do not officially have to make it go away.

Have made contact with Douglas Wragg and will keep you informed as the matter progresses.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Malcolm8484
Screwloose

Just spoken to Mr Douglas Wragg who sounds like a very nice, interesting, and knowledgeable chap. He would love to thank you in person for your recommendation.

He appears interested in taking up our case and is reviewing papers over the weekend.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Screwloose
Malcolm

We've never met; but I've sent a few jobs his way and I've read and enjoyed many of the case-history papers he's had published in professional journals.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - engineerdouglas
Dear Screwloose,
Many thanks for your recommendation - I am flattered.
If you feel so inclined, please will you contact me offline so that we may have a discussion.
Kindest regards,
Douglas
dgwragg@btinternet.com

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 05/07/2008 at 20:05

Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - thames6D
I have a 2003 2.0L Turbo Diesel Premacy, does this use the same diesel engine? As far as I know its not a common rail diesel.

The reason I ask is that for about 2 years (and 30,000 miles) I have had an intermittent warning light problem.

Basically the glow-plug light will come on while driving, and it will flash at a constant rate. I have taken the vehicle to my Mazda dealer whilst it was doing this and the 'code' (apparently it can be long and short pulses) indicated that the "accelerator voltage had gone outside its parameter range". Its a fly-by-wire accelerator pedal I was told. The dealer explained that this was a known problem with this engine and was due to 'soot' in the inlet manifold. They advised that I didn't need to do anything as long as the light was not on permanently. I must admit I wondered how soot could get into the inlet manifold.

Switching the ignition off and restarting the engine resets the light and then all is well untill the next time.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Screwloose
thames6D

Fortunately; your engine isn't the common-rail version of the RF. It uses a rotary injection pump and should thus avoid all the afflictions of the MZR-CD.

Soot gets into the inlet from the EGR system.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - thames6D
Screwloose,

Thanks for the info. I was worried for a while that my decision to go diesel for longevity was flawed.

Thames6D
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - galwaytt
SL - quickie for you - my 02 MPV has now been sans-engine for.......4 months?........and I've just located a donor 19k miles engine from another one.

However, it's an 05 vs mine an 02 - is it compatible? What is the key thing to look for, to make sure it's right - the seller (trade) is adamant it is the same.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Screwloose
galwaytt

I'm told that there are two distinct versions; but as to the exact detail differences and which occured in which year; that's tricky.

If the supplier is adamant that he has the correct engine; get it in writing as part of the contract that the engine he's suppying is fit for use in your [stated] vehicle. Make sure you pay by credit card only.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - galwaytt
has anyone got an email address for Mazda UK that I could write to? I see their website only offers phone or post.........
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Malcolm8484
Galwaytt

cim@mazdaeur.com

Mazda Motors UK Limited
Riverbridge House
Anchor Boulevard
Dartford
Kent DA2 6QH

Tel: 01322 622600
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - rtj70
My Mazda6 143bhp diesel is in for its first service today. On the bottom of the worksheet it said "intercooler 07".

When I asked why I was told that they had been told to check all intercoolers at service time. I asked for a little more details and the best I got was "some" are split so they all need checking. I'll post if mine needed replacing but thought people might be interested there is an intercooler problem too.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - turbobob
Hi, this is my first post on what looks like a great forum.

I am looking at a Mazda MPV 02 registration (facelifted version) with engine number RF 767216. It seems that the engine oil has escaped via failed turbo seals and the engine has run low on oil causing knocking at the crank / big-ends. I'm told that the oil warning light did not light. I haven't taken the sump off yet.

Reading this thread, it seems this is a known problem so I'd really appreciate some help. First question, what was the first component to fail? Ie what's the root cause? I assumed it was the turbo but it seems there is a theory that the oil pick-up is getting blocked with carbon deposits from leaking injector seasl? How does that result in a blocked pick-up? Also, is the oil pump a known weakness?

Second question, this thread seems to be discussing the MZR engine ? is this the same basic design as the RF engine? Which cars could I look to in order to get a replacement engine or perhaps crank or con-rod?

Where can I read more on these engines / this problem?

Thanks for any help
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - TurboD
stick a decent Ford petrol engine in - sorted for life!
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Raman
Malcolm8484, and the rest of you guys who have had problems with your Mazda 6 diesels, ( just a suggestion ) why not band together and print out Vol 1 and Vol 2 of the Mazda 6 Turbo Diesel postings on this website and write directly to the TOP man in Japan,Mr Kazuhide Watanabe. If you address your envelope "Striclty Private and Confidnentional" then hopefully only he will open your letter/s. Perhaps include this website, so that he can view everybodies problems and maybe who knows it just might start something to help you guys out.

The address is as follows:
For the Attention of the MAZDA
Motor Co CHAIRMAN
Mazda Motor Co Ltd
Address: 3-1 Shinchi,
Fuchu-cho, Aki-gun,
Hiroshima-ken,
735-0028
JAPAN

I was going to buy a Mazda 6 diesel, but having read so many people having problems with them and some kindly advice from Screwloose, I decided not to. But then I also owned a VW GT TDI Golf that turned out to be a lemon as well. I now drive a petrol engine car.

Hope this helps :)


Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - mbs
Ok, I just bought a Mazda 6 TD, in a private buy, and on the way home (50 miles) I have had the engine warning light come on, plus the car seems to smoke a lot and use more diesel than I expected. The car was sold as seen.

After reading the above I am completely gutted.

I have booked it in with a Mazda dealer tomorrow, but I'm already feeling I've been sold a lemon.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Screwloose
mbs

Could be an EGR system fault; it's now "normal" to sell-on cars with a fault - nobody seems to want to fix anything anymore.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - mbs
Ok, odd analysis from my local Mazda dealership, they have looked at the car and feel the engine warning light is due to a faulty neutral indicator switch (£100 to replace), and they want more time with the car to try to diagnose the smoke, but think the engine might just need a good clean out. They say the car is fine to drive in the mean time.

Not what I was expecting... the engine warning light caused by the car thinking the gearbox is in neutral.. and the excessive smoke is a coincidence? I'd be interested to see if the light goes out if they replace the switch.

Edited by mbs on 12/08/2008 at 20:22

Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Screwloose

Is it an automatic?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - mbs
Nope, manual.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Screwloose

I've just had a look at the circuit diagram; there is a park/neutral switch shown, obviously for the auto, but I didn't think that it was on the manual too.
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - cheddar
Could they mean clutch position sensor I wonder, being a manual?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - galwaytt
Malcolm8484 and Raman - thanks for that info - I intend to write to both.......

FWIW, I got pricing on all the part to 'cure' (if such a thing exists...), my problem MPV. One item - crankshaft - I was quoted Eur 2300 for, excl VAT, btw..........add bearings and all the labour, etc..........and a new short block is cheaper: Eur 2800 for a short engine. I also new a new clutch and DMF as well........

Mentally, I've resigned myself to spending the money. But, two things niggle at this stage: now my engine never stopped - I did get the blinking oil light, and a precautionary sump drop spotted the #4 b/end issue, but it got me to thinking:
Turbo - this should have escaped the carnage.......
CR pump.......mmm, on two or 3 occasions, I did have the complete loss of power, nearly limp home mode...........should I budget for a Feather Diesel overhaul, as precaution, seeing as the entire engine is currently on on the garage floor....?
Turbo Diesels - same afflictions as TDCI? (Vol 2) - Screwloose
galwaytt

You may have to take a chance on the turbo - good luck!

Loss-of power isn't the typical symptom of suction valves; that idle issues. However....

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