I live on a main road, at a T junction facing the mouth of the 'downstroke'. I usually enter my drive by coming up the 'downstroke' and crossing both lanes of the main road to enter my drive. Its relatively painless, as traffic usually slows down to let me cross.
Yesterday, there appears to be a rally of Vespa style scooters. Lovely and my boys were enchanted by the noise and smell. However, there was no break in the line of scooters and over 300 must have driven past before I could cross; meaning that there was a huge queue behind me. Unlike car drivers, many of whom are sufficiently bright to slow down and flash me across, none of the bikers cared less and some gave me dirty looks when I tried to edge over the nearside carriageway and make them understand I wanted to cross the far carriageway and was not trying to muscle in on their enjoyment.
Surely this type of event should be policed (in the loosest sense) and there should be rules so that they do not cause an obstruction - as they certainly did.
|
*Devil's Advocate Hat=on*
Couldn't you have just given up and driven off round the corner to let them all pass, clear the huge queue behind you and come back in ten minutes?
*Presents wellies for slapping*
|
Although I can't comment on individual circumstances, when i was riding I would never slow down/stop to let a car pass through my right of way in heavy traffic.
This wasn't being selfish, it's just that on a bike if you decide to slow your carriageway down and somebody behind you doesn't notice what you are doing, it's painful/dangerous being rear ended when you are on a bike.
I agree it's only a small risk but a risk it is.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 15/10/2007 at 13:58
|
Amusing title since 'vespa' means wasp in Italian... unintended irony?
Consider though, if they did slow down - hundreds of smoky 2-strokes slowing (..and probably many stopping because of concertinaring) then all having to accelerate again up to speed. In purely global warming terms, surely a no-brainer?
|
|
|
|
Ok - so lets see... you were edging across the give-way line (bit of a clue there, maybe?) to 'make them understand' you wanted to get to your house. They didn't know or care where you lived or why you were contravening the give way, and gave you a few dirty looks?
Seems a fair exchange to me, especially as they're on vulnerable things and I guess you weren't?
Although on behalf of bikers everywhere, perhaps I should apologise for them not 'being bright enough' to realise you were so important they should have let you out...
And just explain again how a moving thing causes an obstruction? Oh yes, I forgot, they were in your way, albeit on the main road!
Sounds just as well it WASN'T policed... in the 'policing' sense, because that doesn't sound like an obstruction but it does sound like contravening a give way!
As you say you 'usually' approach by way of the 'downstroke' I assume there's an alternative of approaching and turning left into your drive from the main road, which sounds a lot safer and relies a lot less on 'assisted telepathy'!
;-)
|
I don't like to say it......... but I agree with the above post.
How can people moving (freely? - you did not say) cause an obstruction? The road was busy with traffic and someone could not get out untill it all past. - I think the a cop would have waves all the vespas through, insted of stopping them and letting a car out??
-----------------------------------------------
Torque means nothing without RPM
|
bad hair day Espada III {P} love?
have a nice sweet potta tea-a
chill man :-)
the scooters want to keep together,
have you ever been in a funeral cortege and a rep with an important sale for a left handed squigglenot pushes in to your slow moving convoy,not very nice but basically the same thing
|
It's possible the road designers got it wrong and some white paint will fix it.
Make it a cross roads...with Espada having right of way from his driveway...
Edited by gmac on 15/10/2007 at 15:12
|
|
|
|
Can't you approach your house from the other direction, so you would be on the same side of the road as the vespas were.
I think under the circumstances, had I been behind you, I would be cursing you for not going the long way round and insisting on crossing two lanes of oncoming traffic.
|
Sorry to disabuse you all. I was very calm. What annoyed me was the length of the rally. It takes several minutes for 300 bikes to go past without a break in the line and it was clearly annoying all the other cars that wanted to turn right (and whom I wasn't blocking) and cars behind the line as well. Why couldn't they have simply gone off in groups of say 30, with a reasonable gap in between to allow for the regular road users to use the road as they are entitled.
I am not saying that they should not have been on the road, but that they could have used a bit of courtesy to other road users.
|
I suspect the answer is much simpler, and hopefully less prone to irking tempers:
Espada is stopped at the T junction with no indicators showing as he wants to cross the line of traffic into his driveway...
BUT
...nobody except Espada knows that driveway is his house...
SO
...vehicles coming from his left see a car in the side-road with no visible indicator. They therefore assume he wants to cross the centreline of the road and join the flow of traffic in their direction. But there's traffic behind them so they can't slow to let him out...
AND
...vehicles coming from his right see a car in the side-road with no visible indicator. They therefore assume he wants to turn left into the road ahead of them. But he's remained there while the road was clear ahead of them, so they're reluctant to let an apparently hesitant driver out.
BTW, if its proving difficult to cross the road with 300 bikes in the way, how is Espada supposed to 'go around' to join their stream of traffic. Is he any more likely to get out of another side road to join up with them? Or to get a space in the traffic following the Vespas to do a U-turn?
So, inconvenient, but easily understood. And hardly worth shooting the OP down in flames for? ;-)
|
One assumes that it would take too long or be even more difficult for Espada to approach his house from left to right across the T of the T junction, so that he could simply turn left into his driveway, or as second best from the right. The route he describes must be a bit irksome when there is much traffic, and no doubt he has to edge across sometimes slightly getting in people's way and slightly raising his own heart rate.
Still Espada,, it isn't every day that one sees one Vespa, let alone a whole deadly swarm.
:o)
|
Would not the the idea that the bikes go in groups of 30 or so, be inconvient for a greater number of road users, but for a shorter time each? - still with this approch the total time other road users have to wait for the vespas would still be greater than if they all set off in convoy.
Its the old equality V efficency approch. - The road markings in this case were efficent in getting the most traffic through an intersection in the shortest period of time, but not really fair in their allocation of road space, leaving some road users badly off. - Traffic lights anyone?
-----------------------------------------------
Torque means nothing without RPM
|
I think the OP got a rough ride in this thread - he only asked
'Surely this type of event should be policed (in the loosest sense) and there should be rules so that they do not cause an obstruction - as they certainly did.'
300 scooters is a huge amount of traffic - I've been in a group of 80 bikes and that was difficult enough to manage. We were perhaps more split up and it's quite possible to wait for other traffic and give way as necessary. we did want to limit the inconvenience we caused.
As for the question - 'should it be policed ?' then I think the answer is probably yes. I remember being told a rule that if there were more than about 12 in the convoy then you should at least inform the police - and this was one of the reasons that we split the group up (it's also more fun). We did use the marker system - which I'm sure some of you have seen or used.
Many times when I've been riding in a group, car drivers have stopped and given way to the entire group - even though the car driver had right of way; that's always much appreciated.
I've also driven cars in convoy - which is MUCH more difficult. I don't bother with that anymore.
|
|
|
|
Sorry Espada, I just read it again and understood what you meant by 'downstroke', before I was thinking you were on a 2 way road with about 3 - 4 lanes at least 2 oncoming (on the other side of the road) and you were sitting indicating right waiting to enter your driveway.
Ok so now I see you were blocking the traffic coming from your right by sitting tin the middle of the road pointing towards your driveway. and then the scooters came.
I think under the circumstances seeing as none of them were letting you cross, you should have given up and turned left, gone around the block or whatever and approched your house on the same side that the scooters were on.
To answer the question, is the behaviour of the scooters something to be concerned about? I'd say no, it doesn't happen often and to add a police escort IMO would be unecessary.
I saw some scooters too here on Sunday afternoon, about 40 of them.
|
If the scooter boys are out every weekend there's something to complain about but if it's just their Autumn run coming by your way this year it's just one of those things. Even if the footy had a w/e off I suspect GMP had more pressing things to do than escort a scooter rally.
We used to to get it once or twice a year by the parentals home with (a) the RAC rally heading for a local special stage and (b) some trans-pennine commercial vehicle run bound for a lunch time rendezvous at the original Harry Ramsdens.
Edited by Bromptonaut on 15/10/2007 at 22:00
|
|
Espada, I hope you never get stopped at a Canadian railway crossing. A three engined, one hundred waggon grain train moving off from sidings takes about 40 minutes to clear, and they dont give way!
|
|
|
|
|
|
