just read this:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/6981252.stm
how on earth does one combat this? A hidden immobiliser switch and claim the car is faulty and won't start? or just hand over the keys then call the insurance after the police? Obviously not everyone can have the luxury of locking two cars away in a garage.
Link to the original threads:-
Vol 1.www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=55381
Vol 2. www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=55...0
PU
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The news report says that an orange Focus was stolen - is it only the STi that's orange? The other car was an A3.
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Tragic stories aren't they?
I can only suggest that to combat these crimes you need to buy old or unfashionable cars that the thieves will not be interested in.
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You "combat" it by doing what our colleague did (can't find the thread but you will remember it if you read it): keep a cool head, try to keep control of your bowels and hand over the keys.
That's what insurance is for.
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Except that you get put back in a rotten position with insurance and several hundred pounds out on your excess.
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GM - insurance can't pay to heal the personal mental scars of the kind of event. I can't begin to think how my wife would react to something like it.. She was pretty worried about our shed being burgled.
The only solutions I can think of are to park the cars out of sight, and/or to have boring/older cars. Sports hatchbacks seem to be very obvious targets.
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You "combat" it by doing what our colleague did
As much as I agree he did absolutely the right thing, nothing can combat such issues. He's lost a feeling of security in his own home, his children have been traumatised, and he'll probably have huge premiums from his insurers next year. I agree the only way to stop all this jealousy-crime from happening is to drive around in cars which don't reflect your success and aren't desirable to criminals. Handing them the keys will only encourage them to do it again - it's easy when the owner knows their best bet is to let the thieves take whatever they want.
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Hi - jdc here - from the original "Both Cars Stolen" thread.
Without going over the whole thing again, I agree that there is virtually nothing one can do to combat the sort of attack we experienced. Doors locked, cars locked, curtains drawn, sat nav out of car etc.etc. As the Police said, the only thing that would have stopped them would have been a loaded shotgun at my side ......
I never considered my cars as 'flash - a Subaru Legacy Outback (2003 model) and a Fabia VrS are what I would call decent cars but not particularly crime targets. Obviously I'm thinking differently now, but it does seem a ridiculously high price to pay.
I've just had a call to say my Fabia has landed but is not in a very pretty state - wrecked interior apparently. it is going to need a complete refurb plus a full mechanical overhaul bearing. I will be penalised again when I come to trade it in I imagine ... ho hum.
jdc
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>> I agree the only way to stop all this jealousy-crime from happening is to drive around in cars which don't reflect your success and aren't desirable to criminals.
I don't think these are 'jealousy-crimes'. These cars are probably stolen to strip for parts or, in some instances, to use in a bigger crime.
Cars like the Focus STi and Audi A3 are not particular markers of 'success' - they are probably accessable by the majority of the working population - with the help of 'finance'. Drive round any suburban area and you'll see lots of equally desirable cars. The cars actually most likely to be stolen are older cars with poor security which are nicked for 'joyriding' or to get home from the pub.
These cases occur because of much better car security which means the thieves need the keys - they can't use a stubby screwdriver like in days of yore.
Trackers have some utility, but the smart thief will get the car into a corrugated metal structure ASAP and rip the car apart. Not too difficult because most tracker fitters always seem to install them in the same place on each particular model of car!
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True, "jealousy" was maybe the wrong choice of words, but basically some cars stand out from the crowd, and open their owners up to these crimes - having 2 such cars parked outside a large house tells the thief they're in middle-class family territory. And OK, replace "success" with "perceived success", because I realise there are plenty of Audi drivers who would struggle to buy a Kia Picanto without finance.
I remember having our Sierra stolen when I was a kid, and even then being shocked at how easily it'd been done (once it'd been recovered, seeing the barrel minus the keyhole-end. My dad drove it round with a screwdriver until he had it fixed! Hardly surprising that nowadays when they need the keys regardless of make/model, that they go for the top-of-range or expensive models.
There was a program recently about top-of-range cars mysteriously turning up in the UAE, and even parts of Africa (no, they don't just want old Mercs and Pug505s). Strikes me as a distinct possibility.
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Cars like the Focus STi and Audi A3 ............. .... are probably accessable by the majority of the working population
Not in my part of the country. You must live in an affluent area.
--
L\'escargot.
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That's what insurance is for.
You honestly think at 21 he'll be able to insure another Focus ST with a theft claim and no no claims bonus? You think his insurer will run everything quickly and smoothly and he'll be back in another car just as good as his previous one in a short period of time?
It took me 6 months to find my car, for example. I doubt I could replace it with another example quite like it, they are not everywhere.
Insurance doesn't fix everything.
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You "combat" it by doing what our colleague did (can't find the thread but you will remember it if you read it): keep a cool head try to keep control of your bowels and hand over the keys. That's what insurance is for.
Think I will start keeping one of my skeet guns under the bed, rather than in the gun cabinet.
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"I can only suggest that to combat these crimes you need to buy old or unfashionable cars that the thieves will not be interested in. "
Unfortunately Rovers are no longer made. ;-)
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Unfortunately Rovers are no longer made. ;-)
Thank-you! That was priceless. I needed that....
s
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I used to have a Volvo 340. I reckon it was less attractive than pretty much anything.
Perrhaps I was too oblique, but I don't think there is anything which can be done to "combat" this sort of crime. I certainly wasn't unsympathetic to the effects on jdc and his family, and I think a careful reading of what I posted will confirm that. The offence was one of robbery. It was the circumstances which were particularly shocking. But - (not) answering the original question - we may as well ask how we can combat robbery.
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And having boring cars - which I generally do, as it happens - simply risks transferring the blame to us rather than the ungodly who steal them. We shouldn't have to live in fear.
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The article says an orange Focus, presumably a Focus ST, so that & an A3 are two very desirable cars. It's unfortunate that owning two good cars puts you at risk of this kind of thing!
My neighbour just bought an RS6 and having a tracker fitted was a requirement of his insurance company. Perhaps this has to become more widespread.
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What can you do
Cars have imobilisers.
Also there are plenty of short and long range communication equipments from direct radio links to making use of a phone link. A signal down the link can do what you want.
Interface the two, and you can cut the engine of a suitably fitted stolen vehicle at almost any time and range you like.
The link security has to be so high that the risk of accidental engine disablement is virtually zero. You can't have someone on a motorway having his engine die. But that is nothing that can not be solved electronically. There just needs to be the will to do it.
You also have to think about what the crooks would do if these came into widespread use so as to still have a useful system. Like the tracker, you must not be able to see if one is fitted.
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You also have to think about what the crooks would do if these came into widespread use so as to still have a useful system.
So next is the crook kidnaps the owner and takes him along with his car?
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So next is the crook kidnaps the owner and takes him along with his car?
but not for ever, and as soon as you're able you telephone through to some control centre and then have the car disabled
Tracker still has some seriously impressive results for finding stolen cars....
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Tracker still has some seriously impressive results for finding stolen cars....
Problem is, although it's never happened to me (touch wood) I think I'd only want it found if the toerags were still in it when the Police found it.
Look at the case of jdc with the fabia that's just been found in a right old state - loads of hassle and a car at the end of it that I don't think I'd want to keep anyway. I'd rather it was written off or never found.
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leave the metropolis of manchester is the obvious answer,unless you have to work there that is,come into manchester on the train from leeds and its the most depressing journey you can do,apart from doing kings cross obviously
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and you can cut the engine of a suitably fitted stolen vehicle at almost any time and range you like.
Reputedly; some high-end Trackers can already do just that.
However; as even the mundane ones can give a real-time location of the vehicle, it's almost unnecessary.
The problem is that even if a Tracker were fitted, it wouldn't have helped the victims in either of these cases. Recovering the cars is the least of their concerns.
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A device to immobilise and lock the car and tar and feather the toerag would be nice too.
Of course you wouldn't want it to go off by accident when you had lent the car to your father-in-law.
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"tar and feather the toerag"
I favour a retractable spike in the seat...
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"Recovering the cars is the least of their concerns."
Absolutely. Cars are replaceable, people aren't.
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You can certainly get remote immobilisers and smoke (tear gas in some countries) release systems.
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Obviously it isn't possible for everyone, but I find it even stranger now after hearing these horrific stories that people who do have garages leave £000s of car outside and worthless gunge inside.
There are about 30 houses in our road: all have garages but we seem to be the only ones who use ours for what it was built for. They're 60s houses and the garages are of a reasonable size. We extended our house some time ago and I'm glad I managed to persuade SWMBO that the plans should include a double garage.
That said, in JDC's case I'm sure it wasn't possible and I have every sympathy for him and his family.
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"Three men got into the property on Blueberry Avenue, in Moston, through an unlocked front door"
I'm not unsympathetic at all to what happened to these people but in answer to the question "how does one combat this", might I suggest locking the front door?
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might I suggest locking the front door?
Even though I'm sure I could get away with not locking my car & house (as demonstrated by accidentally leaving both unlocked overnight before - oops), I only feel secure when everything's locked despite not having anything worth nicking! If you live in a more affluent suburb of a notorious city, locking the door should be a matter of course, and doing so might have helped in this case ;-)
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locking the door should be a matter of course and doing so might have helped in this case ;-)
Or that might be what the thieving scroats brought the sledgehammer for....
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True but a locked door is at least a deterrent. An open door is more like an invitation to scum like this.
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My doors were locked - my cars were locked - the curtains were drawn.
It didn't stop an invasion .......
jdc
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"True but a locked door is at least a deterrent. An open door is more like an invitation to scum like this"
A locked and unlocked door look the same. It takes somone to try it to see if it opens.
Sadly we always lock ours because of incidents locally over the years.
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"A locked and unlocked door look the same. It takes someone to try it to see if it opens."
Exactly. Burglars and other assorted criminals will try doors to see if they are open!
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If you live in a more affluent suburb of a notorious city locking the door should be a matter of course and doing so might have helped in this case ;-)
errr....affluent? We're talking about Moston here.
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errr....affluent? We're talking about Moston here.
I know we're not talking Mayfair or Knightsbridge, but compared with more central areas of Manchester, Moston is surely comparatively a nice area! Images of that awful estate in which they film "Shameless" for TV remind me of the...erm....less affluent....side of Manchester. The point I was making is that Moston is middle-class suburbia, only a few miles from some of the worst areas for crime in the country.
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