My wife inadvertently failed to notify her insurers re the fitting of after-market alloys to her Grand Vitara some 4 years ago. The original tyre size was 235 / 60R16 100H and the after-market spec was 255 / 55R16 103V. She recently changed insurers and notified them of the modification. They consequently added £50 to the premium! It would appear that by not disclosing the modification to her original insurers she has been 'uninsured' for the past 4 years!
One wonders just how many 'uninsured' vehicles there are on our roads particularly with regard to the purchase of used vehicles whereby the purchaser may not be aware of modifications such as wheels and engine chipping / re-mapping etc which will undoubtedly void the insurance cover.
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I had a conversation with a nice lady at my insurance company about this and asked what sort of things might affect the policy and to what degree. She said that any deviation from the standard spec for that model might have an impact. You might be able to specify 18" wheels over 17" on your new car from the factory, for example, but if you were to retrofit 18" wheels then you'd have to declare it - the cost of the original spec would have been taken into consideration when the group was decided, and the aftermarket wheels could either cost more to replace, or might result in running tyre sizes that are detrimental to the handling of the car.
I asked about superchipping a 180bhp Skoda Octavia vRS (still considering getting one), and she calculated the increase in power (218bhp) would result in almost £140 extra and a higher initial excess. Interestingly the added torque (which seems to be the real bonus for this particular mod on this car) didn't seem to come into the equation.
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The whole business seems to be chaotic, with different insurers taking totally different approaches. In recent years I have fitted 'modifications' to a variety of cars - ranging from bigger anti-roll bars, aftermarket 'coil over' and lowered spring/damper set ups, strut braces and performance air intakes. This is mostly to Japanese sports cars such as Impreza, FTO, Celica etc. Most insurers increase the premium for bigger wheels - presumably because they make the car a higher theft risk. Any kind of power (bhp) increase seems to bring about a higher premium. Suspension mods are much more variable - some charge, some don't bother. I guess some take the view that mods send out a message about the driver ('I like going around corners fast'). For example a strut tower brace does not increase performance, but some companies whack on a £50 loading!
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My Direct Line policy states that my car has been modified with "non-standard alloy fitted to a new car" and did not incur an additional premium which is different to what the OP did but may help anyone reading the post. I had 17" alloys fitted from new instead of the std 15". This was a great decision with our billiard table smooth roads ??
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i think to be fair Geordie1 if you were genuinly unaware of a moderate modification then your insurer might well let this go at claim time,however if just by looking at a car you can see its been modified for instance if you had fitted "fat boy alloys with those stupid low profiles that makes the car look like its going to chew the wheel bearings up in a week" then you really do need the insurance company advising straight away.
Obviously these arent fitted to your wifes car
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... if you were genuinly unaware of a moderate modification then your insurer might well let this go at claim...(quote)
Too risky IMHO 'bell boy'...the insurer could well decide that the proposal was in breach of the policy terms thereby voiding the cover and leaving you to pay out on the claim which could be very substantial depending on the circs etc.
When completing future proposal forms in respect of a used vehicle (of which I am unaware of the history) I will indicate 'unaware of any modifications' or have the vehicle certified as being without modifications, either of which would hopefully suffice.
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I agree Geordie - I suspect that the insurer would direct you to the small print that tells them you should advise them of any changes to your schedule immediately as this could affect your premium and/or cover. Possibly leaving you with a nice heft bill.
I'm afraid insurers are not that understanding bb.
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Interesting one
My second to last car was second hand and bought from a toyota garage, no1 notified me of any additionals that would affect my ins. It only dawned on me when renewing for my new car that my old one that i used to own had a roof spoiler fitted as extra.
So i probably was driving for over 3 years un-insured. Never even crossed my mind; Scary thought though. Will never do it again.
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Years Ago (about 23) my father purchased a new Ford Granada it was a cancelled order and had about £900 pounds of extra's on it - Spot lights (Fogs) - different wheels - uprated stereo etc. - This he didn't know off at the time.
4 Years later the car was hit by a gas van and was at first written off. The insurance Co at first didn't want to assist based on the "extra's fitted" - the thing was that these where listed in the recipt as £0.00 and the fact they were fitted online - to cut a long story short the assesor was missing one key fact the car was stopped when it was hit and so the fault was clearly on the other party.
My father who at the time was 20 years into a 28 year "stretch" with the Police (12 years in traffic) got a second opinion from a Police engineer who was of the view that the car was easily repairable. Armed with this he approached the Ins Co with a "well what are you going to do attitude" after various offers he finally accepted a value for the car.
Next thing he done was to approach the insurance Co to buy it back with a view to getting on the road. They had a contract with a salvage co and the answer was a firm no. Three weeks later he was able to buy the car back at a very good price. Straight in to a body shop and a few weeks later the Granada was back on the drive.
What was funny at the time were two things firstly he made £1000 out of the process but the thing that still tickles him was standing in a Portacabin doing the deal with the "Guv" who wanted lots of money for the "extras" when about 5 recovery drivers all say hello at different points. He finally turns around and says something to the effect of "you know a lot of people" - to which he says well I see them everyday.
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Modifications - Insurance Cover affected
the long and short of it is that you must honestly declare all material facts "to the best of your knowledge and belief" to your insurance company.
there is guidance and rulings from the financial ombudsman that are in favour of consumers where insurance companies have tried to wriggle out of paying using the samll print on "modifications". so as long as you have acted honestly, you will not lose - because the ombudsman will be on your side. however if you have told deliberate yorkies, then you may very well lose.
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I think one major problem is that nowadays many manufacturers make of virtue of what is termed 'mass customisation'. i.e. cars built to order with a specification determined by the owner. There are a bewildering range of options, meaning that in some cases there is not really a 'standard' specification to work from. As with so many things, the Japanese got there first. If you look at Japanese grey import cars then they all seem different - its rare to see two that are exactly the same.
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I think one major problem is that nowadays many manufacturers make of virtue of what is termed 'mass customisation'. i.e. cars built to order with a specification determined by the owner.
i have insured my beemers through four different major insurance companies in the recent past.
everytime i have asked whether any of the myraid of extras fitted are to be classed as "modifications", and they have replied (and confirmed in writing) that the factory fitted extras are classed as "standard" attracting no extra premium. but that is just my experience based on bmw cars insured with those four companies. their attitude with regard to other makes/extras may not necessarily be the same.
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and they have replied (and confirmed in writing) that the factory fitted extras are classed as "standard" attracting no extra premium.
One thing to bear in mind is that many 'factory fitted' extras are actually fitted by a dealer or at an import centre. This is particularly the case with alloy wheels, audio systems, security systems and reverse parking sensors. It would probably be easy for the first owner to verify what the car was supplied with - but much more difficult for the third owner to prove that those 18" alloys really were 'factory fit'. In theory the VIN number should bring all this up on the dealer database, but my experience of buying parts is that these are often inaccurate when it comes to optional equipment.
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One thing to bear in mind is that many 'factory fitted' extras are actually fitted by a dealer ..
perhaps a better description would be "o.e.m."
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So if my car has the factory-fitted alloy wheel option, but I decide to downgrade to the ordinary steel wheels, the insurance company will thrust a £50 premium reduction into my hands?
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but I decide to downgrade to the ordinary steel wheels, the insurance company will thrust a £50 premium reduction into my hands?
is that what theyhave told you?
and if they did, perhaps they know that you are changing the handling charecteristics of thecar to raise the risk posed to the insurer.
so the solution to your problem is if you don't like the insurance quote, go to another provider.
or ultimately, if you think you know better, use self-insurance as is allowed by law.
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It does seem non-sensical that you could get a factory fitted option to go from say 16" to 18" wheels (perhaps even from steel to alloy) and it seems the insurance companies don't care. Yet do the same thing after registration and it could attract a hefty extra premium.
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is that what theyhave told you?
and if they did, perhaps they know that you are changing the handling
No - it was a hypothetical tongue in cheek question.
Obviously insurance companies never give reductions, the whole racket is a one-way win for them.
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One wonders just how many 'uninsured' vehicles there are on our roads
None for the reason stated - the insurance company cannot evade its liability to 3rd parties, so the cars are technically insured. Of course the ins co will seek every opportunity to avoid paying out to the owner, in the evet of an 'at fault' claim.
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Frankly its a ridiculous state of affairs - where do you draw the line?
Do you have to declare a K&N air filter?
Do you have to declare a Halfords air filter?
Why a difference between the two? Both are consumable parts.
Do you have to declare EBC Greenstuff brake pads?
Do you have to declare Halfords Value brake pads
Do you have to declare an exhuast from Quickfit when yours falls off?
So why do you have to declare a decent Stainless one which you've chosen for longevity?
Why must you declare a change of suspension to upated components yet you are free to fit either Wan Li Super Budget remoulds or Continental SportContact, offering massive performance differences, without declaring?
Why are people who uprate components on their car penalised yet people are allowed to fit crap tyres, rubbish brakes, etc etc and the insurer is not interested?
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You would have to declare any departure from original specification. So fitting a different brand of air filter element would have no impact, but modifying the air filter assembly (in the hope of a power increase) would have an impact.
Similarly changing brand of brake pads would be OK, but fitting bigger discs and pads would not.
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Surely a discount should apply to dopey component changes, which reduce power, but increase noise? Cone filters, free-flow exhausts etc:)
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Probably only interested in the things they can get away with charging for. How the addition of a roof spoiler or alloys makes an actuarial difference is somewhat puzzling. Its hardly ever the fault of a component in an expensive incident (third party damages) nor is theft a big cost, in comparison to a crash causing injury. Expect it cannot be calculated, but its a profit opportunity.
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I have fitted a few uprated 'performance' parts in my yoof and if the reason for the increase wasn't making the car more attractive to thiefs, it was cos it made it go faster, if it wasn't that, it was because it would make me drive faster (that was used for making me remove an FIA approved roll cage form a Fiat Uno Turbo hillclimber).!!
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Aim low, expect nothing & dont be disappointed
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One wonders just how many 'uninsured' vehicles there are on our roads
None for the reason stated - the insurance company cannot evade its liability to 3rd parties, so the cars are technically insured. Of course the ins co will seek every opportunity to avoid paying out to the owner, in the evet of an 'at fault' claim...(Quote)
My understanding 'BP' is that if you make a false or misleading entry on an insurance proposal then according to the 'small print' your cover, including the liability to 3rd parties, will ultimately be rendered void as you have breached the contractual terms of the agreement.
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My understanding 'BP' is that if you make a false or misleading entry on an insurance proposal then according to the 'small print' your cover including the liability to 3rd parties will ultimately be rendered void as you have breached the contractual terms of the agreement.
My understanding of how it works is that the insurance company do have to pick up the bill, but may then seek repayment from you.
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...My understanding of how it works is that the insurance company do have to pick up the bill, but may then seek repayment from you...etc (quote)
I have re-checked this with my present insurers 'BP' who have indicated that if you KNOWINGLY make a false or misleading entry on your proposal then you would immediately be driving without insurance cover as opposed to making a GENUINE error on the proposal whereupon liability to a 3rd party etc would probably be covered pending all subsequent costs possibly being recovered from you.
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Exam question:
Explain what differences the following non-original modifications would have on the accident propensity of a car:
1) Fitting leather seats from another dismantled car in the range
2) Replacing the radio with a better model
3) Respraying the car in a non-original colour. Differentiate between an original option colour, and a one-off.
4) Retro-fitting electric windows
Discuss the difference between real physical differences in performance or other factors, and perceived statistical differences as determined by the insurance company. For example, do you think people who like electric windows are inherently worse drivers than those who are content with manual?
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Erm,
they may not make it more likely to have an accident, but they make the car more desirable to tea-leaves, and/or cost more to replace/make good in an accident.
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Aim low, expect nothing & dont be disappointed
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if you KNOWINGLY make a false or misleading entry on your proposal
The insurance company's response is hardly a surprise.
Pretty tough to prove that you knowingly didn't do something.
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if you KNOWINGLY make a false or misleading entry on your proposal
The insurance company's response is hardly a surprise.
Pretty tough to prove that you knowingly didn't do something. (quote from Bill Payer)
All insurance companies deploy investigators re suspected faudulent claims etc....and they can be rather rigorous and thorough in their methodology!
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My insurance company wanted to know about EVERYTHING I'd paid VW for over base price , ie metallic paint, mudflaps, floormats, CD player and reversing sensors. All from the VW brochure and definitely 'standard'.
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What is most insidious of the non specialist insurance companies, is that if they will cover you with modifications they often wont cover the modifications themselves.
Thus charging you more, but not giving any more cover.
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