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.....and no baggage from the past perhaps.... :-)
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.....and no baggage from the past perhaps.... :-)
No experience you mean!
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Based on my experience you'd be foolish to to spend your own money on anything from this company (Fiat, Alfa, Lancia) They are a triumph of style over substance, marketing over engineering integrity. Just one man's opinion, but how many times do we have to hear the same thing before we realise there must be something in it??
Monday morning, time to do some work now.
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I've had more Fiats than any other car and I've had no more bad experiences with them than any other car I've owned. The anti-Fiat sentiments usually come from people who've never owned them. I personally think Fiat are great at designing small cars, which is where their strength has always been. The new Panda, as an example, seems to recieve nothing but praise. If you need an example of what living with a supposedly reliable quality car is like look at the Passat thread in the discussions.
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I accept that that is your experience, but I think that anyone looking at buying a Fiat should look at customer satisfaction surveys ( jd power and autoexpress? would be a good start). Without actually looking them up, I think the Punto (not Grande Punto) generally comes in the last 10 per cent out of over 130 models. Compared to Toyotas and volkswagons of the same age, they feel like disposable cars, not built to last. Then again, I accept that they were and are condsiderably cheaper to buy than those other makes.
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Some Fiats are fine, good reliable bread and butter cars. We have two mark 2 Punto`s ( car and van) that have been virtually trouble free.
But there is something about the Grande Punto, it seems to be having a lot of build faults. You can`t fault it on price though a dealer selling them new at £6,000.
Then there is the 8 year corrosion warranty and 2 years manufacturers warranty. Contrast that with Vauxhall and the new Nova for example.
( 6 years corrosion, 1 year manufacturers warranty)
So theres a balance.
Would I buy one ? Well some of you know I`m a Fiat fan, mainly for the 1.3 common rail *chain cam* engine, but the answer is no.
Its been in production for about a year and it seems some are arriving at the dealers with water getting into the double skin of the rear door for example. It seems some have a list of nearly 20 faults to correct, as posted on another forum.
I think the best thing to do when a new Fiat is launched is to let it run in production for a year or so and then check out the marque specific forums for ongoing build/component faults.
We had a Fiat doblo with devastating trouble and faults, built near the start of its production run. But the MK2 Punto, made in a different factory and country, bought at the same time has only had a misted headlight in 5 gruelling years use as a community workers car.
Significantly that car was well into its production run, as was the Punto Mk2b van bought new 18 months ago. Again no trouble other than with the tailgate lock needing adjustment.
The real point of interest to me regarding the Grande Punto, is how many of the original production faults are still coming `off the line` after a full year of production?
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They also spent years churning out tens of thousands of puntos with known head gasket faults without bothering to rectify the problem.
Of course there are happy Fiat owners, but if engineering quality is important there are far better options around.
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My Seicento, so far, has been great and its not a car known for solid build, but mine is an 03 model, so 5 years into production and prob the best evolution of the model.
Its right that you should let them iron out the faults first, but that can be true of many models, not just Fiats.
I was speaking to a customer of mine who has a 2 yr old Stilo and a 3 yr old Punto who use their cars extensively and hard, but have had nothing other than trim breakages so far and have total confidence in their cars having owned Fiats for 10 years. The Stilo has 75k and the Punto has 40k.
I read that the Panda came near the top of an ownership survey - was it the latest JD, Im not sure, just recall reading how amazed the magazine was about it?
Its also worth noting that how you treat these cars can have some effect - you can abuse say a Subaru, but a Fiat benefits from more gentle ownership and rigorous servicing to get the same level of service.
Id wait till the G punto is 3 years old, then see how they are faring.
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They also spent years churning out tens of thousands of puntos with known head gasket faults without bothering to rectify the problem.
A trick they learnt from MG Rover perhaps?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Of course there are happy Fiat owners but if engineering quality is important there are far better options around.
FIAT must be one of the oddest companies around when it comes to wide variations in quality.
MK1 Punto, absolute dreck. MK2 Punto, vast improvement. Now with what is effectively MK3 Punto (the Grande), back to square one, at the same time as the Panda turns out to be a proper gem.
The cynical might say that when they do get it right, it's more by luck than judgement. At least with other companies whose reliability has slipped over time, it's followed a predictable path.
Will FIAT *ever* be able to produce an entire range without major faults? Somehow I doubt it.
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Different factories in different counties with no doubt different local component suppliers.
It seems some Fiat Doblo`s built in Turkey, were delivered with underspec tyres ( not reinforced) and according to our local tyre supplier, failed the first MOT as a result.
That new factory was at the time the flagship of the countries new car export industry and I am not blaming the country. But how much experience in the form of skilled assembly line staff/ supervisors, were they able to draw on?
There is a plate on the car giving the tyre spec, but they allegedly fitted tyres not to that spec. Cant get more basic than that.
As for my old Doblo, On delivery,the steering rack poured its fluid out staight away, ditto the front window *drenched* the dash when it rained.
the main computer failed, the handbrake cable was wearing a hole in the plastic fuel tank, the Sat nav failed, the engine used to cut out if you put it into neutral while moving, a coolant hose was chafing through on the engine, these are just the highlights drawn from memory.
Then just out of warranty, the £1,400 sat nav unit that had already been replaced in warranty started to show signs of failure again........
Moved on quickly..
Then , here are our Punto`s virtually trouble free and proving to be the most reliable cars we have had.
We also had a really reliable Seicento, hence a recommendation to Stu a few weeks back.
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Reliability/quality of Grande Punto = ditto Vauxhall Corsa?
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It seems some Fiat Doblo`s built in Turkey were delivered with underspec tyres ( not reinforced) and according to our local tyre supplier failed the first MOT as a result. That new factory was at the time the flagship of the countries new car export industry and I am not blaming the country. But how much experience in the form of skilled assembly line staff/ supervisors were they able to draw on?
Enough for Toyota, obviously, who build the Corolla Verso out there.
I have been tempted in the past to buy an Alfa 156 and a Grande Punto, but in both cases the dealers were so dis-interested that I could never have given them my money. No matter how good the car, Fiat need to sort their dealers out!
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I have been tempted in the past to buy an Alfa 156 and a Grande Punto but in both cases the dealers were so dis-interested that I could never have given them my money. No matter how good the car Fiat need to sort their dealers out!
This is very much the point with Fiat - they have without doubt, some of the worst dealers in the country - maybe they should humbly ask Lexus to sign up and manage their dealer network as in the main, Lexus are regarded as the benchmark.
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. No matter how good the car Fiat need to sort theirdealers out!
How right you are boxterboy! I too have owned a fair number of Fiats over the years and find them just as reliable as other "bread and butter" marque.I used to run a Nissan Primera,this car had more faults than any Fiat I`ve owned.
I agree Fiats need a fair amount of mechanical sympathy,mainly because the dealer servicing is so inadequate.
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I've just bought one - a Sporting with the 130 Diesel engine. Whether that was a smart or stupid move only time will tell.
First impressions are positive. It's well equipped for the money. Fit and finish of both interior and exterior trim, panels and switchgear seem faultless. The only issue is that I have not so far been able to get the bluetooth to pair with my phone (a Samsung D900). The low profile tyres ( the first I've had) don't help the ride quality or directional stability but otherwise it's good to drive. I don't know about performance yet as I'm not pushing it with only 200 miles on the clock. Initial fuel consumption (according to the computer) is around 50 mpg.
Peach or lemon, I'll report my experiences.
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Alan
What are your experiences after 2 months? What is it like for noise / refinement on the motorway?
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Yesterday I helped the brother-in-law change both front headlights on his 2001 Punto 1.9 JTD (due to condensation). This is a "bumper off" job, and I have to admit to being impressed not only with the way it was mounted, but how easily everything came undone, and then lined up perfectly when refitted. Some fasteners were corroded, but not horrendously, and apart from an almost Peugeot-like wiring stinginess on one of the lights making disconnection of the multiplug a 20 minute job as opposed to the 5 seconds it would have taken if they'd given us 10mm more slack to play with, it was a pleasure to work on.
This is a 90,000 miler bought as a work/station car for 2 grand earlier this year, and it really is in lovely condition. Loaded with kit, all of which works properly, it's lively, economical, reliable and frugal. Not at all what I would expect from a Fiat. Cracking looker as well compared to Fiestas and Corsas of the same age.
Cheers
DP
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04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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Based on my experience you'd be foolish to to spend your own money on anything from this company (Fiat Alfa Lancia) They are a triumph of style over substance marketing over engineering integrity.
Same is true about the Renault and PSA surely, yet they seem to sell very well here!
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Based on my experience you'd be foolish to to spend your own money on anything from this company (Fiat Alfa Lancia) They are a triumph of style over substance marketing over engineering integrity. Just one man's opinion but how many times do we have to hear the same thing before we realise there must be something in it??
Based on my experience you'd be delighted to spend your own money on anything from this company (Fiat Alfa Lancia). They are a triumph of style and character, producing cars which put a smile on your face in this age of dull econoboxes, and if you do your homework, and look after them correctly, no more unrelaible than anything else. Just one man's opinion, but how many times do we have to hear the same thing before we realise there must be something in it??
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"if you do your homework, and look after them correctly, no more unrelaible than anything else"
That's a terrible advert for a car.
I want one which works straight out of the box, ignores hard use, takes abuse and needs no cosseting.
After all the Rover apologists here say the same thing about the K series engine... :-))
Frankly I looked at new Fiats... the dealers are rubbiush and the depreciation is so high buying new is for idiots :-) and as they don't stand abuse, buying secondhand is for chancers.
No thanks. I prefer no hassle from cars.. Fiat have a long and proud reputation for producing hassle full cars!
madf
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Fiat have a long and proud reputation for producing hassle full cars!
You should try our Panda, then. Picked it up 1 August last year. First time it went back to the dealer was 1 August this year, for its first service. Didn't even need oil in the meantime (first diesel I've ever come across that didn't need topping up at some point during its first year) and hasn't lacked for hard use. Can't ask for much more out of a car than that.
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I hardly think servicing it correctly and not allowing it to run out of oil is too much of a strain.
Still, interesting isn't everyones cup of tea. ;)
You may want a white good as a car, and fair play to you. I want something with passion, something with soul.
There's nothing else I could have bought when I got my Alfa 145 Cloverleaf, my Fiat Coupe 20VT or my Alfa 156 GTA which would have given anything like the joy they have for anywhere near the cost, and they've all been perfectly reliable, becauce I didn't go out with my eyes closed and buy a dog.
I could have bought a Mundano or equivalent instead, but it would have been just as likely to be a lemon, and I'd have spent the last 5 years having a dull time whenever I was in my car.
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Test drove the Grande Punto earlier this year, the keen prices were a factor that attracted me to it at first.
Inside i was impressed with the cabin space & the interior, but what let it down was the performance, ok it was the 1.4 8v but i still expected a bit more grunt when accelerating.
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Its not what you drive, its how you drive it! :-)
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I hardly think servicing it correctly and not allowing it to run out of oil is too much of a strain. Still interesting isn't everyones cup of tea. ;)
I fear you may have misunderstood me, sir. madf was saying that Fiat produce cars that are a load of aggro and I was pointing out that it's not appropriate to tar all of them with that brush. As it happens, my Dad's Grande Punto has been equally well-behaved. Wish I could say the same of some of the German-engineered cars I've had.
I could have bought a Mundano or equivalent instead but it would have been just as likely to be a lemon and I'd have spent the last 5 years having a dull time whenever I was in my car.
Now there's the thing - I could never describe my Mondeo as dull - it does everything I ask of it very well, and incidentally is a better drive, and rides and handles better than every other car I've ever had. And if I want true excitement I find it on 2 wheels rather than 4. :-)
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I fear you may have misunderstood me sir.
I fear you may have assumed my comment was a reply to you, when it was not ;)
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>> I fear you may have misunderstood me sir. I fear you may have assumed my comment was a reply to you when it was not ;)
>>
Blast and botheration. I fear I shall never get the hang of the way this forum arranges people's posts...
[slinks embarrassedly back into cave, muttering about remembering to use "View Threaded" in future...]
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FIATs are cheap cars especialy the larger ones on the used market. This means that people neglect maintenance then complain when their engine seizes.
I would avoid the Punto MK1 now as they don't seem to have that Corsa/Fiesta level of stamina but the MK2 and Grande are very solid cars. The HGs can blow on the FIRE engines but its a two hour job and a £30 part. An HG swap will cost as much as a rear light cluster on other cars :)
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FIATs are cheap cars especialy the larger ones on the used market. This means that people neglect maintenance then complain when their engine seizes.
Hmmm.
(Pre-Renault) Nissans are cheap cars, especially the larger ones on the used market. This means that people neglect maintenance then don't complain when their engine somehow manages to plough on regardless.
I don't buy this argument -- I've known enough bad Fiats to realise that they aren't all bought by numpties!
Next door neighbour's Punto 2 was the only really reliable one I've come across, treated like it's made of solid gold, really nice little black number.
Unfortunately, at 6 years old and 65,000 miles it bit its owner squarely on the bottom. Complete ECU failure followed by HG failure within a further 1500 miles. The gearbox was starting to refuse reverse gear as well. Total cost for repairs £1700. Was traded in.
That was the one standout Punto I knew, and it ended up letting the side down as well. How sad.
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